Who do we take if Granger and Green are gone by #9?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Warriorfansnc93, May 24, 2005.

  1. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Assuming my guy drops

    1.) Tiago Splitter (Has Pau Gasol/Chris Mihm offensive qualities in the post and Andris Biedrins/Jeff Foster-like qualities on the defensive end and on the glass)
    2.) Johan Petro (Great lateral movement, Can defend 3 positions like Rasheed Wallace, passes well, and is very Samuel Dalembert-like on transition offense with plenty of room to grow into a force inside in the half court)
    3.) Ike Diogu (Was Elton Brand-like in college, gets to the line, rebounds, defends, has very few flaws in his game for a power forward, size is an issue, a question mark in the NBA whether he can adapt to the small forward spot or the power forward spot, or if he is a future regular starter)
    4.) Randolph Morris (A classic big, might take a while to fully develop. Has Jamaal Magloire and Brendon Haywood (better hands) like qualities, has been known to be inconsistent)
    5.) Andray Blatche (Like Charlie Villanueva, has terrific all around skill, but is unaggressive at times. Lacks an NBA body, lacks consistency or sometimes plays down on the competition. Can dominate games in high school)
    6.) Chris Taft (An underachiever but nevertheless has great physical skills, great potential due to strength, size, and coordination. Is very Nene-like in terms of the physical package of athleticism and strength. Has drawn comparrisons to Chris Wilcox now and being able to capitalize on his talents to be a young Antonio McDyess type player)
    7.) Charlie Villauneva (Has simularities to Lamar Odom/Jonathan Bender's all around game but is working to be more of an inside player. Not very intense at times, very passive type of player, great potential to be a force inside with the ability to hit perimeter shots, pass well from the high post, and attack the basket by putting the ball on the floor)
    8.) Sean May (Good post moves, high bball IQ, not an athlete, undersized for power forward, good rebounder, might not be effective as a power forward unless he adds more range to his game. Has Clarence Weatherspoon, Mike Sweetney and Zach Randolph-like qualities to his game)
    9.) Wayne Simien (a good low post scorer, undersized, good rebounder, excellent footwork, might struggle at the next level as the majority of the undersized bigs do in the NBA. Has Marcus Fizer/Carlos Boozer/Zach Randolph/Corliss Williamson-type qualities in fancy footwork and decent shot touch from intermediate ranges)
    10.) Channing Frye (good all around skill for a big man, not that intense, not that physical. Game has comparrisons to Jarron Collins from the Utah Jazz and Chris Bosh's good attitude, lankiness and shooting touch)


    Andrew Bynum has pulled out and is going to UCONN.</div>

    Man, I think your list is backwards CR2!
     
  2. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">Man, I think your list is backwards CR2!</div> And why is it backwards? Because nbadraft.net said we'd be taking Channing Frye because we're the ones rumored to have made the guy a promise? If we do take Channing Frye it would not be the end of the world, but I think it goes against what the draft is supposed to be, which is about taking the most skilled player with the most upside and intangibles. I think that's Tiago Splitter and not Channing Frye.

    Johan Petro is a guy that can guard three positions well for a guy his size. Not many players can do that with his bulk. He also is a hard worker, a decent scorer and a good passer. Pietrus might love him because he's a fellow French leaguer and can find Pietrus slashing to the basket from the high post.

    Ike Diogu has few flaws in his game, but size is an issue. He could still be very effective and play big. I wouldn't be suprised if he falls short of expectations because of the danger of being too much in between a small forward and a power forward and having no true position. We're a team of players with unorthodox styles (Jrich plays like a forward but is a shooting guard, Murphy plays like a small forward (but is the size of a center), Dunleavy plays like a guard (but is the size of a tall small forward, underweight power forward), Foyle is a power center.

    Any other player after my top 3 has question marks, but would be worth looking at. Wayne Simien is the safe pick because he is the most polished inside player, but at his size, if he's only built for one position so far (power forward) he mind end up being a waste of a pick like a Marcus Fizer or a John Wallace. Late first round at best since the 6'8 players are hit or miss. Even at power forward, a player is supposed to be somewhat reliable from 15 to 18 feet out.

    Randolph Morris seems like the only "true" big man prospect in the nba draft. The rest seem like power forwards or too lightweight to bang inside. You can never have too few of centers or power forwards since they hold a lot of value in whether your team can rebound, defend the paint, and get the easy putback or lay in.

    Also the list was based on Map1986's suggestion of 4's and 5's. It doesn't include any position below that.
     
  3. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">And why is it backwards? Because nbadraft.net said we'd be taking Channing Frye because we're the ones rumored to have made the guy a promise? </div>

    No, you should know by now that I don't base my opinion on nbadraft.net or draft city. I base it off what I have seen personally or on TV. If I have not seen a Euro play at all, I am not going to even consider them.

    1. Wayne Simien has been my #1 choice since the tourney, you know that as far as big men are concerned. He reminds me of Kenyon Martin with the way he attacks the rim. I also compared him to a Barkley type player who is undersized, but attacks the rim with a fury.

    2. Frye is not my top choice but I would rather have him than ANY euro out there right now. He is not very aggressive, but when a player gains confidence he also gains aggressiveness. He is also not as slight in build as some people think...

    3. May would is about right, but for the fact I would take him also over any euro. My only knock on him is his weight. I know what it is like to play overweight. He may be slow because of his weight, but even if he drops 50lbs it wont add 12" to his verticle. He is in the middle of the pack for me...

    4. I have not watched Diogu except for SportsCenter highlights. I like what I saw out of him. I skimmed over a few of his games and the announcers always raved about how he was the best low post player in College. That is pretty high endorsements.

    5. I dont like the guy from UConn that much because he seems like too much of a tweener.
     
  4. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">No, you should know by now that I don't base my opinion on nbadraft.net or draft city. I base it off what I have seen personally or on TV. If I have not seen a Euro play at all, I am not going to even consider them.

    1. Wayne Simien has been my #1 choice since the tourney, you know that as far as big men are concerned. He reminds me of Kenyon Martin with the way he attacks the rim. I also compared him to a Barkley type player who is undersized, but attacks the rim with a fury.

    2. Frye is not my top choice but I would rather have him than ANY euro out there right now. He is not very aggressive, but when a player gains confidence he also gains aggressiveness. He is also not as slight in build as some people think...

    3. May would is about right, but for the fact I would take him also over any euro. My only knock on him is his weight. I know what it is like to play overweight. He may be slow because of his weight, but even if he drops 50lbs it wont add 12" to his verticle. He is in the middle of the pack for me...

    4. I have not watched Diogu except for SportsCenter highlights. I like what I saw out of him. I skimmed over a few of his games and the announcers always raved about how he was the best low post player in College. That is pretty high endorsements.

    5. I dont like the guy from UConn that much because he seems like too much of a tweener.</div> Then you have got to watch professional Euro and International ball some time if you've got cable, satellite or find a website with video streams. There's some good talent out there, so you can't immediately write them off if you haven't seen them. That'd be like only watching college baseball and leaving out all the South American and Asian prospects that can compete and be stars for some MLB team. Granted, we didn't send our best players to the Olympics to compete against the internationals at basketball, they've got some players that can be good NBA players one day. Our population is not always going to have the type of athlete that can play nba ball, so you can't write off the potential that some of these tall, fast, strong players from other countries might have over our own guys.

    Tiago Splitter of Brazil is pretty impressive when he comes into the game. Yi Lian Jian of China has looked spectacular when it comes to dunking (haven't seen him much). There's just some players out there that can do a lot of things few players their size in the world can do in terms of the way they move and the way they react.
     
  5. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">No, you should know by now that I don't base my opinion on nbadraft.net or draft city. I base it off what I have seen personally or on TV. If I have not seen a Euro play at all, I am not going to even consider them.

    1. Wayne Simien has been my #1 choice since the tourney, you know that as far as big men are concerned. He reminds me of Kenyon Martin with the way he attacks the rim. I also compared him to a Barkley type player who is undersized, but attacks the rim with a fury.

    2. Frye is not my top choice but I would rather have him than ANY euro out there right now. He is not very aggressive, but when a player gains confidence he also gains aggressiveness. He is also not as slight in build as some people think...

    3. May would is about right, but for the fact I would take him also over any euro. My only knock on him is his weight. I know what it is like to play overweight. He may be slow because of his weight, but even if he drops 50lbs it wont add 12" to his verticle. He is in the middle of the pack for me...

    4. I have not watched Diogu except for SportsCenter highlights. I like what I saw out of him. I skimmed over a few of his games and the announcers always raved about how he was the best low post player in College. That is pretty high endorsements.

    5. I dont like the guy from UConn that much because he seems like too much of a tweener.</div>

    I guess you enjoy watching undersized American players in the tourney? We would be pretty crazy to draft any of those guys at 9, maybe if we traded down though. I dont understand your logic, You have Diogu below May and Simien yet Diogu is around the same height but dominated every game he played in. I know Diogu hasn't face many elite big men but he did do well against Frye and is double and triple teamed by 6'11 guys every night yet scores and defends great. And i will guarantee that the Warriors arent drafting Frye unless we trade our pick, quote me on that one come draft day.
     
  6. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Then you have got to watch professional Euro and International ball some time if you've got cable, satellite or find a website with video streams. There's some good talent out there, so you can't immediately write them off if you haven't seen them. That'd be like only watching college baseball and leaving out all the South American and Asian prospects that can compete and be stars for some MLB team. Granted, we didn't send our best players to the Olympics to compete against the internationals at basketball, they've got some players that can be good NBA players one day. Our population is not always going to have the type of athlete that can play nba ball, so you can't write off the potential that some of these tall, fast, strong players from other countries might have over our own guys.

    Tiago Splitter of Brazil is pretty impressive when he comes into the game. Yi Lian Jian of China has looked spectacular when it comes to dunking (haven't seen him much). There's just some players out there that can do a lot of things few players their size in the world can do in terms of the way they move and the way they react.</div>

    I hear ya. But you know me. I am not going to rave about some euro if I have never seen them before. And anyone can look good off highlights and video streams.
     
  7. playmaker15

    playmaker15 JBB Droppin Dimes

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    I think the safest bet at this position is Channing Frye i think he and Baron are good together because of their athleticism and Frye won't take as long as Martynus to develop and taking such a gamble on an international guy may not be what the Warriors need right now. If they are looking to make a run at the playoffs then they need a big guy who can make an imediate impact when he comes in. I think out of the big guys who havent been taken in the first 8 Frye is probably the best.
     
  8. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">I hear ya. But you know me. I am not going to rave about some euro if I have never seen them before. And anyone can look good off highlights and video streams.</div> I've seen a few games to at least see what the scouts are seeing, not just highlight reels. Splitter's not a franchise guy yet, but he might be. When you have talent, size, athleticism and ability to change both ends of the court, you got to take that player. Too much upside. Strength conditioning, free throws, and long range shot consistency are things he can work on over the course of time. He might be ready to contribute some now based on the way he's improved and being used at power forward instead of being used at small forward.

    Also, it's hard to tell with the playing time these young prospects get, but it'd be like looking at Zarko and Pietrus and getting all hyped up when other teams can't defend their height or their speed. As I said before, not sure if Splitter is ready to go right away, but physically he's got the tools to be a good player soon, he doesn't shy away from contact like he did in his small forward days, and he's about 20-21 years old. Plus, we have the option to leave him overseas until 2007 when his contract with Tau Ceramica expires.
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunkaholic32:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the safest bet at this position is Channing Frye i think he and Baron are good together because of their athleticism and Frye won't take as long as Martynus to develop and taking such a gamble on an international guy may not be what the Warriors need right now. If they are looking to make a run at the playoffs then they need a big guy who can make an imediate impact when he comes in. I think out of the big guys who havent been taken in the first 8 Frye is probably the best.</div> I'd say forget "safe". This is probably one of our few chances of getting a high pick for a while and we'll have plenty of chances to go "safe" later. A lot of people think the playoffs are a given for the Warriors, but that all depends on if Baron Davis is healthy and same with the rest of the core players on the roster. The Hornets had 3 all-stars on their team, but still had the worst record in the Western Conference and that could very well be the Warriors if Bdiddy, Jrich, Murphy get hurt. Something like this probably wouldn't affect, let's say the Spurs, who can win without Manu Ginobili and Tim Duncan in the regular season because they plainly have a lot of talent, defense, and teamwork on that team. The draft lotto is for taking the best player available for now and the future, whatever position that is. Every time the Warriors have gone safe with a high floor, low ceiling type of player for need, we've gotten burned on what we could have had and therefore contributed to the continuing mediocrity. We should pretend this draft is as if Baron Davis wasn't a Warrior and act as if we're still missing pieces and looking for talent... We are missing pieces, low post talent that can defend or some good defenders on the wing that can also score from about anywhere.

    Tiago Splitter, Channing Frye are good power forward/center prospects with considerations with Andray Blatche, who is more of a face-up power forward than a low post guy. Petro is worth looking at. Not sure why Fran Vasquez is so high, but why not look at him to see what the hype is about. Chris Taft if GM's are convinced Baron Davis can make him into a Nene/Chris Wilcox at full potential. Wayne Simien would be a nice addition if he's convincing enough on the defensive end to be a KMart type player on D. I don't think he is. He's more like Marcus Fizer and does not block shots. Kicking butt in college doesn't mean anything if you one can't do it in the pros due to being outmatched. One of the things that makes basketball unattractive to some is it's so stringent on being able to match up on both ends. Sure he might score, but defensively he'll be blamed for a lot of things and might get outrebounded or outmuscled off the block to take his two main strengths away which is scoring and rebounding.

    Granger at SF, Joey Graham who can develop into a solid wing are good bets.
     
  10. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    The wide body high consistancy rebounders such as Simien or May won't get muscled off the boards a lot,those 2 in particular played in highly competitive leagues with top teams and had games with 15-20 boards. Some NBA guys are hardcore enough to neutralize them,many are not. Some of the lightweights will have a more difficult time. I keep seeing claims Vasquez can play C...and May can't. Well,FV has an inch but gives up 40 pounds,though I assume May will be 10,maybe 15 lb lighter at the start of the season. May,simply,has textbook skills inside and that will serve him well. Being 6-9 probably will mean he won't be a major star,but I figure he will tone up much sooner than some others will learn just half his technical skills.

    Petro does seem to have a physical package,but as far as having proven he is a player with some level of skill,with potential,or whatever,it still seems he has not been very productive in any area. If he can,for instance defend any NBA frontcourt guy,surely his Euroleague team would want to use that while they have him. I can't buy the idea teams bury guys to hide them. What do they figure,that the NBA will forget a guy later and they can then play him? Petro is no assett to a Euro-team if he is not used-and when he is used...if he's good,the NBA will sweep him away.

    Blatche had played a lot like a F,until post season All Star games. Then he took on the challenge to prove he had an in-the-paint game. While it seems risky to get in a showcase-and then go with a different style-it worked. Blatche had a big game,doing big man stuff. That he could run,shoot from outside was established. He had big RBD numbers in HS,but,until he dominated the boards against blue-chips,there was room to doubt. I figure Blatche has some established skills,and Petro,while having physical tools, has yet to show even the Euros he has a few reliable tools. Petro is sort of like the 7-1 kid at Kentucky who played minor minutes but showed hints of talent. Blatche appears the best HS big,overall,and that is significant. Basically,Blatche has a foundation of some skills,Petro has Physical tools,questionable skills.
    Add it up and both CAN POSSIBLY become anything from okay to very good,but Petro is more high risk
     
  11. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Petro does seem to have a physical package,but as far as having proven he is a player with some level of skill,with potential,or whatever,it still seems he has not been very productive in any area. If he can,for instance defend any NBA frontcourt guy,surely his Euroleague team would want to use that while they have him. I can't buy the idea teams bury guys to hide them. What do they figure,that the NBA will forget a guy later and they can then play him? Petro is no assett to a Euro-team if he is not used-and when he is used...if he's good,the NBA will sweep him away.</div>

    Supposedly, Petro's team, Pau Orthez, is very secretive about their young players after losing Pietrus (to the Dubs none the less). I can see why that team is especially worried because Pietrus was supposed to be an ace for them and now 2 years later the NBA is taking their best young C away. The longer thay can keep young players the better they will be once they decide to play them full time (it only lasts for a season though). Petro is also the same age as Gerald Green (actually hes a day younger) so to be producing 6 points, 2 blocks, and 4 assists on any night in a professional league playing with men is impressive IMO.
     
  12. goldenstatefan

    goldenstatefan JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I've seen a few games to at least see what the scouts are seeing, not just highlight reels. Splitter's not a franchise guy yet, but he might be. When you have talent, size, athleticism and ability to change both ends of the court, you got to take that player. Too much upside. Strength conditioning, free throws, and long range shot consistency are things he can work on over the course of time. He might be ready to contribute some now based on the way he's improved and being used at power forward instead of being used at small forward.

    Also, it's hard to tell with the playing time these young prospects get, but it'd be like looking at Zarko and Pietrus and getting all hyped up when other teams can't defend their height or their speed. As I said before, not sure if Splitter is ready to go right away, but physically he's got the tools to be a good player soon, he doesn't shy away from contact like he did in his small forward days, and he's about 20-21 years old. Plus, we have the option to leave him overseas until 2007 when his contract with Tau Ceramica expires.</div>

    I think Splitter is starting to look like the right pick, and his buyout may be enough for a team that was thinking about him to let him slip. The top five is set with Bogut, Williams, Paul, Green, and Williams in whatever order. After that, Felton, Granger, Wright may go at six, and I think Splitter is safe at 7 (Toronto already has Bosh and drafter Araujo last year) and I don't see any way the Knicks take him at 8.

    As far as the other options...Vazquez really sounds more like a mid-first round pick who's being pushed up because of a lack of size in the draft. He's a good athlete and defender, but has a very limited offensive game - who scores almost all his points around the basket - and at 6'10 sounds like a Biedrins with a signficantly lower ceiling.

    Channing Frye simply is not a lottery pick. He spent four years in college and has some polish to his game, but at 6'11 with a smaller frame, he's not a player I see with the size to play power forward or center for top playoff team, much less a championship contender, at any point in his career.

    Diogu is very skilled offensively, especially in one-on-one, so I think he's going to look good in workouts. But he's short and does not have great athleticism. He's not a top-notch defender and given his size and lack of quickness he'll be a liability in the pros. He does have a long reach, and is supposedly taller than previously thought. He's good enough to play, and would be a go-to guy down low, but I don't think the Warriors take him at 9.

    Petro and Andriuskivicius are the two biggest unknowns, both in size and potential, that are being talked about in the draft. If the Warriors avoid them, it looks like Splitter.

    I've seen him play a little bit in international play. It's hard to really get a feel for how he'd play in the NBA, and he's on a team with Scola who carries a lot of the load for Tau. He sounds like a good one-on-one and team defender, and has the size and athleticism necessary...and given some more seasoning and added bulk sounds like he and Biedrins could be a stud defensive combination. He has a high basketball IQ and plays with energy, and does things that help a team win. The main weakness with him is offensive. He hasn't shown yet that he can be counted on to score. Not sure how much is a result of his team's style and his own abilities, but rarely gets the ball in one-on-one situations. He can take players off the dribble and hit some face-up jumpers, but he's not a back-to-the-basket player. Given Biedrins' lack of offensive game, as well as the lack of inside threat from Foyle and Murphy, this could be a problem unless he has more game than he's shown or has the ability to improve. But the Warriors will have the team with Davis, JRich, Dunleavy, Pietrus and Cabarkapa to invert their offense the way Phoenix does and open the inside, and Splitter should play well in an up-tempo team that wants to play in transition.

    One thing about the buyout is that if it's a major problem the Warriors might be wise to let him stay over in Europe for a year. With Scola probably leaving for the Spurs this offseason Splitter could take on a larger role with Tau, something that could do wonders for him before he comes into the league.
     
  13. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    For May, I think a good example of a strong, shorter rebounder is Danny Fortson. They have a few similarities, and May should be as effective in the low post as Fortson has been. If he works on it, he could develop a better overall game, as well.

    For Vasquez, his stock is rising because he's playing right now, and playing well. It should level off, just like May's stock after the NCAA game rose then leveled back to normal. Vasquez is currently tearing it up in the playoffs, showing that he can play against the big boys over there. I think he can step it up when he comes to the NBA, personally. He's got good instincts, which is what I look for, ok skills which can be built upon, high energy. Being older though, it would have been nicer if he could be more accomplished - so I'm still torn on where he should be getting drafted. I'll end up watching a few more games and probably still be undecided.
     
  14. goldenstatefan

    goldenstatefan JBB JustBBall Member

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    Speaking of Vazquez's play in Europe, his team just went up against Tau Vitoria (who Splitter plays for). There's a write up on it over at DraftCity (http://www.draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=192). They didn't play much time against each other, as Vazquez starts and Splitter comes off the bench. And neither is used as a primary scoring weapon offensively.

    The interesting thing about Vazquez is that while he's European his game - sort of like Biedrins - seems more suited for the NBA than Europe. From the descriptions of his game he sounds like a skinnier version of Kenyon Martin. He's a good athlete, with speed and mobility, great verticle, good defender - not as strong as Martin, but potential to be a better shot-blocker - and offensively he's a strong finisher around the basket but has a very limited overall offensive game. That's not typical of most international big men, or the style of basketball in Europe. And it is a style that can be successful early on in the NBA.

    He may actually turn out to be under-rated because of that fact, but I don't think he's the piece the Warriors need. He sounds too similar to Biedrins. But for a team in the late lottery or mid-first round - or one looking to trade down - he could work out nicely.
     
  15. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    The more I think about it, the more I want the Warriors to trade down in the draft. I'm really not in love with any of the guys projected to be available when the Warriors pick.

    There are a couple of reasons why I don't like a lot of guys in the draft:

    1) Either they're too similar to Biedrins or they'll take away from his development: Vazquez, Splitter, Taft, Petro, Frye, and Warrick.

    2) Are small forwards that don't have the defensive ability or upside of Pietrus or the offensive ability of Dunleavy: Graham, Granger, Wright, and Webster.

    3) Are productive college players (which I normally love), but don't have the size to compete and end up being Charles O'bannon/Lonny Baxter clones: Simien, May, and Diogu.

    Basically I feel that this team has all the parts it needs make a run at the playoffs. It's got great chemistry, a nice mix of veterans and youth, and most of it's core signed for the long-term. The problems, which we all know, are low-post scoring and better overall defense.

    Now I've long been against taking an undersized pf, and I haven't changed my mind. (I came across this while looking for a post I'd made at some point last season saying Taft was gonna fall...ahh hubris...)

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Diogu, you guys can say anything you want about him, but I don't see him ever going as high as #9. I'd say I'm one of the biggest draftniks on this site (though I haven't followed it as closely this year as years past), and I'm in total agreement with Chad Ford on this one. He's got Diogu listed as going anywhere from 21-35. Unless he measures in above 6-8 or has a bigger wingspan than anyone thought, he's not going any higher. Like it or not, these things matter to GM's and no one is going to take an undersized pf in the lottery, no matter how productive he was in college.</div>

    http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...3449#post463449


    But, I've got no problems taking a guy who measures up. Simien, who has always been a favorite of mine, looks like he'll measure in at over 6'9" in shoes and Diogu will be just under 6'9" but with a 7'4"-7'6" wingspan. If Diogu has a 32" vertical like he says he does, then he looks like he'd fit in just fine.

    While Ford says Simien and Diogu will shoot up draft boards on Tuesday if they measure up in the Chicago pre-draft camp, I still don't think they'll get all the way to #9. But I do think they could fill a nice hole in the team's 8-9 man rotation.

    GOD I WISH THE WARRIORS DIDN'T RE-SIGN ADONAL FOYLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ...sorry, had to get that off my chest...

    okay, back to the post at hand. The problem is the Warriors eventual power rotation would be Murphy, Biedrins, and whatever pf they draft here...and they'd have a huge, well-spoken anchor sitting on the end of their bench making 7.3 mil next year and 9.7 mil in '08/'09. I'd love to see Mullin admit that he made a mistake and move down in the draft to get rid of Foyle's contract.

    Just looking around on Hoopshype.com, I'd really like to see Mullin do a deal with New Jersey, sending the #9 and Foyle to the Nets for the #15.

    Another option would be to Minnesota for the #14 and Olowokandi (in the last year of his deal). Though I believe Foyle's a BYC player, so the deal wouldn't work under the present CBA. The BYC rules will probably be relaxed in the next CBA, but that won't be in time for the draft.

    Charlotte, if they don't trade the #5 and #13 to move up to #3, would be another option. Again, it'd just be Foyle and the #9 for the #13.

    Just some food for thought. Things should start heating up on Wednesday morning when the Chicago pre-draft physical results are out. Right now I'd be shocked if the Warriors stay where they are and take Diogu or Simien, but I no longer think it's totally out of the realm of possibility. Yesterday I did.
     
  16. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    It's kind of funny how my suggestions are starting to come full circle. I am sorry but I have to toot my own horn here a bit...

    1. Damp was playing for a contract
    2. Dont resign Murphy yet because he is not a low post player and is horrible on defense (what are we looking for in the draft? Low post presence and defense)
    3. Re sign Richardson he is going to be an All Star
    4. Get rid of Dunleavy unless he is for cheap
    5. Start Biedrens...
    6. Draft Wayne Simien (he is moving fast up the draft boards...)
     
  17. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    I see the point,but the salary I want to dump is Fisher. We have a starting point. We can get a capable backup point various ways. For all his flaws,Foyle is still our starting C. Andy will be getting increased minutes if he is not too foul prone. Perhaps this time next year Andy B is the C,and we've found some depth,and then moving foyle is less of a leap

    wtwalker shortchanged May,Diogu,and Simien big time. L Baxter and Charlie O'Bannion in college were decent role players,not stars,not All Americas,not guys who'd have a 25pt,15 rbd game. A 6-8 pf with bulk,power,will typically outplay a thin 6-10 guy inside,such as Vasquez. Nobody we have any hope to acquire will smoke the big stars like KG,Duncan,but Haslim is still playing,Marion had a great year,K-Mart and Brand are keepers. I should do a look-up and see how many 6-8 PF's are suceeding. Charles Barkley of course was not 6-8 unless standing on the phone book. Rodman was 6-8 AND insane. I question the notion Vasquez grabs about 5 boards on average and is alleged to be a rebounder.. A PF needs to show me he's at least around 10 rbd per game or forget it.
    Someone said Bynum pulled out of the draft? I haven't seen any confirmation yet,he was an interesting sleeper.
    The supersized Chinese guy,Ming,remains a tempting round 2. With the fuss over a PF being 1" either way,a C who is 7-8 or maybe 7-9 ought to rate as a project pick,especially with us having a couple of rd 2 slots.
     
  18. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
    Just looking around on Hoopshype.com, I'd really like to see Mullin do a deal with New Jersey, sending the #9 and Foyle to the Nets for the #15.
    </div>
    I've liked Diogu from the start, but now that there's some substance to Diogu's ability to play big with his long wingspan, the #9 safe pick on him wouldn't be the end of the world. I just don't think teams would bite on either Fish-Foyle for a gain of 4 or 6 spots up in the draft unless they were dying for a certain player like Danny Granger or Antoine Wright. They'd have to be absolutely sold, unless we're prepared to send away Pietrus, Zarko as incentive. That just seems like a waste when the whole point of dropping salary was to re-sign one of them or both.

    I don't think there's anybody that New Jersey fears they won't get at #15 to want to accept Foyle's 8-9 mil a year contract for that #9. RJ, Vinsanity, and Jkidd are some huge combined salaries. Plus, If the Nets are at #15 and a guy like Taft falls, they might bite. Or they could take Blatche, Petro, even Fran Vasquez or Channing Frye if they fall. I'm sure they wouldn't care which one landed in their lap since probably all of them can contribute with the team primarily designed around scoring from the wing and from their 5 spot. Unless there's plans to incorporate Foyle as a PF/C defensive stopper at the bench or as a temporary starter to make up for Nenad Krstic's poor defensive play, the Nets could easily wait and see what they get at #15 and not take on any additional payroll. Maybe some kind of 3 way deal can work but that just adds to complications especially if the new proposed CBA are still too stringent on the salary conditions having to match.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
    Another option would be to Minnesota for the #14 and Olowokandi (in the last year of his deal). Though I believe Foyle's a BYC player, so the deal wouldn't work under the present CBA. The BYC rules will probably be relaxed in the next CBA, but that won't be in time for the draft.

    Charlotte, if they don't trade the #5 and #13 to move up to #3, would be another option. Again, it'd just be Foyle and the #9 for the #13.

    Just some food for thought. Things should start heating up on Wednesday morning when the Chicago pre-draft physical results are out. Right now I'd be shocked if the Warriors stay where they are and take Diogu or Simien, but I no longer think it's totally out of the realm of possibility. Yesterday I did.</div>
    I'm excited. This draft will be hard to call, but I think if draft slots 11, 12, and 14 all have their eye on a pick that falls out of the top 8, the Warriors ought to get that guy and use that as leverage to bargain a deal where getting Foyle or Fish is actually an incentive for trading up. Of course any teams before us can do the same thing and probably offer a lot better. The difference is we're probably going to make the playoffs of those top 10 teams in the draft, therefore we don't need this pick as badly as others since we have a 9 man rotation, 5 players locked up with emphasis on re-signing Zarko, Biedrins, and Pietrus by shedding Foyle and Fisher's contracts.

    Anything with Minny, though, I think New York can leverage a better deal of their own and offer up the #8 (Granger or Antoine Wright or a pick of Minny's choosing) and then send it over to Minny for their #14. Then they can also swap a 2nd rounder and Tim Thomas (13 mil expiring contract) for Wally Scerzbiak, Michael Olowakandi. Isiah gets a talented, underachieving center for a year and the one-time allstar small forward that he's had his eyes on. Minny dumps Wallyworld and can buyout the Timdog contract, use it in a trade for a 12-13 mil per year player, or just use it for cap relief. Heck if crap hits the fan with the Nets by allstar-break, 13 mil at the trade deadline + an exception (if that's legal) could get the Wolves Jason Kidd and the Nets some cap relief.

    If Kittles doesn't want to be a clipper next year and Elgin Baylor feels the Clips won't make the playoffs without some additional shooters and veteran leadership, Mullin has got to sell them on why it's important to have a guy like Fisher. He's got an important fan base in LA and he could be a great mentor for their star point guard Shaun Livingston. Also, there's that Dunleavy trade rumor for the Clippers #12 and Wilcox...
     
  19. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">It's kind of funny how my suggestions are starting to come full circle. I am sorry but I have to toot my own horn here a bit...

    1. Damp was playing for a contract
    2. Dont resign Murphy yet because he is not a low post player and is horrible on defense (what are we looking for in the draft? Low post presence and defense)
    3. Re sign Richardson he is going to be an All Star
    4. Get rid of Dunleavy unless he is for cheap
    5. Start Biedrens...
    6. Draft Wayne Simien (he is moving fast up the draft boards...)</div>
    Damp is spoiled and I'm sure if Jason Terry or whoever the point guard was was an above average interior passer that opened up the basket, he'd be motivated to get those huge rebounds because he's getting fed some easy dunks and layups. Damp just can't create his own shot and he'll mope about the floor. He's got flashes of being terrific. I remember just when it looked like I was going to beat Wtwalker in fantasy head to head lineups this year, Dampier dropped 20-30 rebounds out of nowhere, a couple of blocked shots, and a bunch of points, being my two 20/10 guys. His production is soley based on the point guard making him feel like he's involved and he's got to be made to score easily since he's not that great in the post or making his own shot.

    No argument on waiting for Murph, but we don't know how unscrupulous Richardson and Murphy's agents are. You sign one and not the other, it'll probably still leave a bad mark.

    The verdicts still out on Dun, but I'd leave him in for the sake of Baron Davis.

    The one thing I'm not sure about Wayne Simien is durability and his ability to contest shots on D. He's not a shotblocker nor does he really alter shots that much. But hey, anything to land us a guy that give us 50% in the paint and board like crazy.
     
  20. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">wtwalker shortchanged May,Diogu,and Simien big time. L Baxter and Charlie O'Bannion in college were decent role players,not stars,not All Americas,not guys who'd have a 25pt,15 rbd game. A 6-8 pf with bulk,power,will typically outplay a thin 6-10 guy inside,such as Vasquez.</div>
    ok, part of this was my fault. I got my O'Bannon brothers confused. I was actually referring to Ed O'Bannon. While Charles may have been a "decent role player" Ed was a first team all-american who averaged 20.5 points and 8.3 boards in his last year...the one where he lead UCLA to the NCAA championship. After that he was named the Wooden award winner...

    As for Baxter, while not as aclaimed as O'Bannon, he was still an honorable mention All American, and two time finalist for the Naismith and Wooden awards, averaging 15.3 and 8.2 boards.

    Neither player was a slouch, and of the five, Ed O'bannon is actually the most decorated (oddly enough, he was picked #9 in the '95 draft).

    Like I said, I'm not totally against drafting May, Simien, or Diogu and I never have been. I was, and am, against drafting an undersized power forward with the #9 pick, no matter how accomplished he was in college. If Diogu and Simien (and May) measure up in Chicago and continue to blow teams away in individual workouts, then I hope the W's take one of 'em.

    I'd prefer they trade down because I still don't think any of them are worth the #9 pick at this point, but I do think it's within the realm of possibility that they move up that far on the draft board.

    Right now my preference would still be to trade the pick for a future pick and cap relief. If the W's keep the pick, I'd be happiest if they took Andriuskevicius and stashed him in Europe for 2-3 years. He'd develop and when he came over, I believe he'd still be on the first year of his rookie contract.
     

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