Who do we take if Granger and Green are gone by #9?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Warriorfansnc93, May 24, 2005.

  1. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    On principle I would not give away draft position or toss in a good player to just dump salary if there is any alternative. It could be worse...look at the Knicks.

    I like Simien and May but I don't see a good fit for a team expecting to run a lot. Diogu,I think,is a bit better runner with a little more stamina. I fully expect May will be 10-15 pounds lighter,more toned,and quicker when the season starts,and it's hard to guess what that will make him. As a fast pace team the W's will need a deep roster,and guys able to play an aggressive transition game. Before I took Marty Andy,I'd swap the pick for whatever.
    Petro,in 5 or 6 years might be a keeper. Give Marty A 5 years and you just have Shawn Bradley. Neither impresses me as anything better than a Diop,but strange things happen. The Warriors don't need to do anything desperate,just pick someone at 9 who is a good solid player able to add to the mix and down the line be a quality player.

    The Foyle to NJ idea is acceptable if we get Jason Collins and the 15 for Foyle and the 9,and even then,I'm not thrilled.
     
  2. goldenstatefan

    goldenstatefan JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">ok, part of this was my fault. I got my O'Bannon brothers confused. I was actually referring to Ed O'Bannon. While Charles may have been a "decent role player" Ed was a first team all-american who averaged 20.5 points and 8.3 boards in his last year...the one where he lead UCLA to the NCAA championship. After that he was named the Wooden award winner...

    As for Baxter, while not as aclaimed as O'Bannon, he was still an honorable mention All American, and two time finalist for the Naismith and Wooden awards, averaging 15.3 and 8.2 boards.

    Neither player was a slouch, and of the five, Ed O'bannon is actually the most decorated (oddly enough, he was picked #9 in the '95 draft).

    Like I said, I'm not totally against drafting May, Simien, or Diogu and I never have been. I was, and am, against drafting an undersized power forward with the #9 pick, no matter how accomplished he was in college. If Diogu and Simien (and May) measure up in Chicago and continue to blow teams away in individual workouts, then I hope the W's take one of 'em.

    I'd prefer they trade down because I still don't think any of them are worth the #9 pick at this point, but I do think it's within the realm of possibility that they move up that far on the draft board.

    Right now my preference would still be to trade the pick for a future pick and cap relief. If the W's keep the pick, I'd be happiest if they took Andriuskevicius and stashed him in Europe for 2-3 years. He'd develop and when he came over, I believe he'd still be on the first year of his rookie contract.</div>

    The thing with this draft is it sounds like the Warriors could have their pick of any number of international players, who are all waiting for a guarantee or will likely drop out.

    As I mentioned previously, I don't see a team in the top 8, as it stands now, that will take a chance on an international player. And the most likely one to be drafted is Vazquez, who I don't think the Warriors should draft. They probably have first dibs on Andriuskivicius or Splitter, especially given Splitter's buyout.

    Because of last year's move and all the money Mullin's signed in the past year the Warriors don't really need to add a player right now, which is what makes ability to leave a player over in Europe somewhat appealing. Splitter should get good minutes next year if Scola leaves, which means he should come in next year and be ready for any minutes the Warriors ask of him. I'm starting to lean that way as opposed to Andriuskivicius, who could take several more years to develop...that's a huge gamble unless the Warriors have really seen him play enough in person to take that risk. Andriuskivicus, Petro, Taft...I see them all as huge gambles, they could each pay off if the teams that draft them handle the right. Or they could be busts. I don't think there's must bust-potential for Splitter. He plays the game intelligently, has good size and athleticism.

    As for under-sized power forwards....PF is the most loaded position in the NBA, I just don't like the prospects of playing a 6'7 or 6'8 player there for heavy minutes against the kind of competition there is, especially in the west. Smaller pf's only work out in the best case scenario, and there are so many to choose from this year that are undersized.

    If the Warriors do go that route - with an undersized pf - they might want look at trading down.
     
  3. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I like that strategy goldenstatefan, I think that's what has me hyped up about Splitter as well since he has the skills, a decent body, and plays aggressively. Some say he plays like Chris Mihm but we need somebody who is a more polished inside scorer that can play power forward or offer some flexibility in the middle. I think he and Biedrins in a few years could be dynamite.

    Some said that Chad Ford said that Splitter's buyout is up to the team and since they're losing Scola next season they may not accept a buyout.
     
  4. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    The issue with Splitter is it's a big sum and the team drafting only gets to pay about $300,000 on a buyout-the player must cover the rest,and where a guy goes really factors in. Get picked too low and you play for free. One site says Splitter is close to pulling out. Bynum,however is still in,had workouts today back east.

    Several imports want some promise of a good slot or they may also pull out,especially any others who have buyout issues.
     
  5. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">The issue with Splitter is it's a big sum and the team drafting only gets to pay about $300,000 on a buyout-the player must cover the rest,and where a guy goes really factors in. Get picked too low and you play for free. One site says Splitter is close to pulling out. Bynum,however is still in,had workouts today back east.

    Several imports want some promise of a good slot or they may also pull out,especially any others who have buyout issues.</div>
    Yeah, but Splitter is one of these top international prospects you gotta look at and you can easily tell him we'll draft you at #9, stay in europe for a year or something. If he still won't do it, hey we can use another big man much like Biedrins but also much different in that he'll play it safer on defensive positioning. He plays smart and is almost as athletic as Biedrins in that he could guard some tall small forwards. I don't think our 9th man in our 9 man rotation is that hot.

    Also are you sure it's not Will Bynum they're talking about? I heard Andrew Bogut is going to UConn.
     
  6. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    Every NBA team won't go to N jersey to watch a Will Bynum workout. It is Andrew.as in Aircraft Carrier,the big boy. IF he gets some good feedback-he stays in,if he gets a lot of feedback from TEAMS that he's a mid-late rd 1,its U Conn. As Mock sites have him below 15 typically,they may assume he will pull out,but it is not their opinion..or even mine that will count. When teams toy with the idea of Vasquez,a 6-10 225 guy,still raw at 22,as a CENTER,big Bynum is apt to be tempting. Upside is a word I have seen kicked around like a hackysack,and here is a guy it fits. 7-0,280,moves well,good attitude and effort,some ability already,the W's will take a look,so will others.

    Will Bynum? give him a quarter,have him give us a call for summer league.

    The Blazers seem reluctant to take a point g again,got Tellfair last year,but also seem reluctant to take another HS guy,after 2 in a row,so rather than pick Green,may trade that pick. When I saw Green's HS stats my eyes got wide. He had 11-13 boards per in the last 2 years,averaged 7 assists this year,shot 60% from the 3 arc...which is as extreme as his vertical leap. He is young,he ain't raw. Those are HS stats,but it is a combination of stats that nobody matches,except LeBron a few years ago,and future phenom OJ Mayo.
     
  7. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I like that strategy goldenstatefan, I think that's what has me hyped up about Splitter as well since he has the skills, a decent body, and plays aggressively. Some say he plays like Chris Mihm but we need somebody who is a more polished inside scorer that can play power forward or offer some flexibility in the middle. I think he and Biedrins in a few years could be dynamite.

    Some said that Chad Ford said that Splitter's buyout is up to the team and since they're losing Scola next season they may not accept a buyout.</div>

    I heard Splitter is pulling himself out of the draft...
     
  8. goldenstatefan

    goldenstatefan JBB JustBBall Member

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    My take on his situation is that he'd prefer to stay in the draft - and obviously be taken somehwere in the lottery - but can't take that chance in case he happens to fall out of the lottery, perhaps well out of the lottery. And his buyout may be a big reason for that. The worst case scenario being what happened to Macej Lampe a couple years ago.

    Splitter can't afford something like that to happen, so his camp has made it clear through the media that he needs a guarantee from some team or else he'll pull out. They're hoping that will encourage a team interested in him to give him a guarantee.

    That's at least what the opinion I have after reading excerpts like this (from nbadraft.net):

    "Despite a very strong effort Thursday against Fran Vazquez in a Spanish league (series) game between their teams, Splitter will likely end up waiting another season to enter the draft. He's a player with very good upside, however the buyout situation with him is very difficult, meaning that a team in the 6-12 range would have to wait a year for him. Therefore the odds of him coming over next season are low.

    He remains in the same boat with Nemanja Aleksandrov, Ersan Ilyasova, Martynas Andriuskevicius looking for a promise that probably wont come."
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">I heard Splitter is pulling himself out of the draft...</div> Yeah, kind of looks like that way if he's not going to go top 10. He'd have to be on a team that's sorely lacking in big men to get a chance at minutes. If we draft him he'd want enough salary to cover his buyout, then he'd want playing time. Only problem is some news sources and Chad Ford say Splitter's buyout is impossible.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Splitting image?
    Though Tiago Splitter, a skillful 6-11 forward who has drawn favorable comparisons to Pau Gasol, appeared to be a lottery lock, the Brazilian's club team may not agree.
    Word passing through the league last week was not encouraging.
    NBA personnel types who looked into Splitter's contract discovered that his buyout provision with the Spanish team Tau Vitoria may be impossible to negotiate - more difficult, even, than the expensive settlement Detroit finally reached with Darko Milicic's club team two years ago. . . .

    http://celtics.bostonherald.com/celtics/vi...&format=&page=2


    Tiago Splitter Likely to Pull Out

    Despite a very strong effort Thursday against Fran Vazquez in a Spanish league (series) game between their teams, Splitter will likely end up waiting another season to enter the draft. He's a player with very good upside, however the buyout situation with him is very difficult, meaning that a team in the 6-12 range would have to wait a year for him. Therefore the odds of him coming over next season are low.

    He remains in the same boat with Nemanja Aleksandrov, Ersan Ilyasova, Martynas Andriuskevicius looking for a promise that probably wont come.

    http://nbadraft.net/draftbuzz042.asp
    </div>
    I wonder if we're bold enough to draft him and wait one or two years for him to come on down. Maybe by then we can deal Foyle and his 5th year team option or find some way to deal Fish.
     
  10. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting goldenstatefan:</div><div class="quote_post">My take on his situation is that he'd prefer to stay in the draft - and obviously be taken somehwere in the lottery - but can't take that chance in case he happens to fall out of the lottery, perhaps well out of the lottery. And his buyout may be a big reason for that. The worst case scenario being what happened to Macej Lampe a couple years ago.

    Splitter can't afford something like that to happen, so his camp has made it clear through the media that he needs a guarantee from some team or else he'll pull out. They're hoping that will encourage a team interested in him to give him a guarantee.

    That's at least what the opinion I have after reading excerpts like this (from nbadraft.net):

    "Despite a very strong effort Thursday against Fran Vazquez in a Spanish league (series) game between their teams, Splitter will likely end up waiting another season to enter the draft. He's a player with very good upside, however the buyout situation with him is very difficult, meaning that a team in the 6-12 range would have to wait a year for him. Therefore the odds of him coming over next season are low.

    He remains in the same boat with Nemanja Aleksandrov, Ersan Ilyasova, Martynas Andriuskevicius looking for a promise that probably wont come."</div>
    I guess, we'll see a really international heavy draft by next season or the one after. That's okay, I guess. It's starting to look like the Warriors will trade down... because it's like a catch 22 in that if we get the BAP, and that BAP player won't find minutes off the bench to prove he's better than our current guys, he'd still have little trade value once drafted. Teams could still have leverage over the fact we're crowded in certain positions, the guy we're trying to trade is unproven and there are other holes in our lineup that need to be addressed. During the draft, we'd have to hope somebody down below wants a certain guy we pick and is willing to deal right away so we can maintain our leverage in bargaining for a player and a pick.

    I also had some thoughts that the draft could be prearranged.... Like maybe, it could be a swap of #9 with the Lakers for them to get Fran Vasquez. If we make a promise to secure Vasquez for them and not trade him to any other team, then we can get Channing Frye and one of their journeymen small forwards like Jumaine Jones or Caron Butler or somebody. I don't know if that's giving up too much for the Lakers, or if we're passing up a talented player for a safe pick and an extra player, but if we took a hot player somebody wanted, and the players down below are vying for him and offering trade goodies, we could get more than one player for that #9 by getting an extra player we need and a safe draft pick that at leats has a little upside. Now with our 9 man rotation, the two guys we picked up may not crack the rotation, but we still have a lot of depth, oen or two rookies who can come in and contribute probably right away, a veteran player obtained from swapping picks and more pieces to make additional trades during the season or as safety insurance in case one of our guys goes down with injuries.
     
  11. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Am I the only one who thinks the Warriors should take the riskiest guy they can find at #9 if they don't trade the pick? I mean, why wouldn't you? They don't need a role player, at least they don't need to draft one. This is the first time they can really afford to take a guy and not care whether or not he pans out.

    I'm not saying the Warriors should waste the pick, I'm saying that if they can take a guy who they think has a fair chance at turning into a superstar, then why not? Lots of draft picks don't pan out, even those that are thought to be safe picks. Only a few have superstar potential. I'd love to see the Warriors bring in every high risk/high reward guy they can find, and if they don't fall in love with any of 'em, then trade the pick.
     
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    There's probably only one player that intrigues enough to gamble like that, Walker. Martynas Andriuskevicius. With few players in the world with that size, agility, and skill he'd be the one to gamble on. We could probably leave him in Europe too and not sign him until he's physically developed. I still think whatever his upside may be, he'll be the kind of player that Zydrunas Illgauskus is. He'll give you offense, but not enough D. I like his interior passing, though. Biedrins and Martynas could probably be a decent duo.
     
  13. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">Am I the only one who thinks the Warriors should take the riskiest guy they can find at #9 if they don't trade the pick? I mean, why wouldn't you? They don't need a role player, at least they don't need to draft one. This is the first time they can really afford to take a guy and not care whether or not he pans out.

    I'm not saying the Warriors should waste the pick, I'm saying that if they can take a guy who they think has a fair chance at turning into a superstar, then why not? Lots of draft picks don't pan out, even those that are thought to be safe picks. Only a few have superstar potential. I'd love to see the Warriors bring in every high risk/high reward guy they can find, and if they don't fall in love with any of 'em, then trade the pick.</div>

    You are not alone. And, you are not the only guy who like Marty. But, we are certainly a minority [​IMG]
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    [​IMG]

    Just kiddin' [​IMG]

    I can definitely see why a guy like Mullin would have to look at the bigger picture and work with the successful 9 man rotation we have set, Dunleavy, Murphy, Foyle and all. But come playoffs, I think it would be nice to have the extra guy who can be a great factor on both defensive/offensive ends of the floor at either the 3 or 4/5 spots rather than any project who is projected to be only geared towards one end of the court.

    What I was hinting at is if we could find that player to keep the team chemistry inline, score, defend and have another player who can score inside, rebound, defend at either 4/5 there's not much need for the extremely risky high scoring/no defense projects like Andrea Bargnani, Martynas Andriuskevicius, Nemanja Aleksandrov, and others that might not even be that great scorers anyway. If there's a defensive/offensive player that is a project, has size, athleticism, strength and has the teamwork skills I'm definitely up for grabbing that player or trading down to grab an additional player that fits those requirements (a veteran + a guy you can count on now and the future). If there's a project like Biedrins who is very defensive minded and is showing awesome potential to be a good close to the basket scorer, I'd definitely like to see a player like that get drafted bys as a second project. For the international guys left on the board, it seems like a majority will be liabilities on D or won't have the inside skills or ability to create their own shot and that's something I think we should avoid.

    Then again Yao Ming turned out all right. Wasnt as bad on D as originally thought by some.
     
  15. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Andriuskevicius is the main guy I had in mind.

    I'd add Martell Webster, but it looks like he's about as physically developed as he's going to get, and he just won't have the athletic ability to be a super star shooting guard, not to mention the fact that he'd have Richardson and Pietrus in front of him anyway. I'd definitely want the Warriors to take Green if he were available, but unless he starts bombing his workouts, that's not gonna happen.

    The other guy who is a high risk/high reward guy in my book is Andray Blatche. He's got the physical tools to be a big time player, what he's missing is experience. But he's a guy, and Webster as well, who I think the W's could trade down and still take.
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
    The other guy who is a high risk/high reward guy in my book is Andray Blatche. He's got the physical tools to be a big time player, what he's missing is experience. But he's a guy, and Webster as well, who I think the W's could trade down and still take.</div>
    I guess I'm not defining "project" right because I almost didn't consider Blatche and Webster as projects for some reason. I think it's because they are this year's best out of high school so that puts them on level where it seems like more of a sure thing they'll become near or star level (forget about guys like Kwame Brown, Dasagana Diop, Dorrell Wright, Darius Miles)...
    I would love to grab those two players because of the upside and potential to be above average on both ends of the floor and maybe even dominant. Webster is actually bulky enough to play some small forward and could be a lights out scorer that can't be defended very well and Blatche could easily be what Jonathan Bender was supposed to be in this league as walking mismatch at 4 positions or he could mix up some of the good qualities that Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace have that make them effective scoring or playing defense at the 4 or 5.
     
  17. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    yeah, I'm not looking at necessarily taking a project player, I'm looking at taking the guy with the most potential.
     
  18. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    Why not just draft Splitter and wait on him. Next season we'd essentially be getting 2 draft picks. I don't think it's that bad of an idea. By that time, Foyle will not be a BYC hit anymore and can be moved come draft time to the east, packaged with what will hopefully be a late round pick to move up a few spots in next season's draft. It worked with David Robinson... Does anyone else get the feeling that this kid is going to be something special?
     
  19. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">Why not just draft Splitter and wait on him. Next season we'd essentially be getting 2 draft picks. I don't think it's that bad of an idea. By that time, Foyle will not be a BYC hit anymore and can be moved come draft time to the east, packaged with what will hopefully be a late round pick to move up a few spots in next season's draft. It worked with David Robinson... Does anyone else get the feeling that this kid is going to be something special?</div>
    We could even have three picks i believe, if you think of it that way because Philly owes us a pick. I dont know who in line for Philly picks but i think we are next.
     
  20. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">Does anyone else get the feeling that this kid is going to be something special?</div>
    First the disclaimer: I don't know anything more than anyone else on this site. I've never seen Splitter in person, and I've only seen some grainy, low resolution clips of him playing in a game against who knows what kind of competition.

    But what I do know is that this is a guy we've been hearing about for 2-3 years (I remember when nbadraft.net projected him as the #3 pick in the '03 draft...back in November of '02 this guy was already on their radar).

    Now I'm not saying that this guy won't be a very good player and I'm not saying that his development has been slower than average, even by European standards. But it just seems like every year the luster has worn off him some. When I think of all the guys in the draft who are listed as guys with a lot of potential, Splitter's name doesn't make it onto those lists nearly as often as it did a year or two ago.

    I dunno, I'd say I know a pretty fair amount about draft prospects for just being an average guy, but I don't know anything compared to what Mullin and the rest of the brain trust will know about these guys when they get 'em in for individual workouts and see them play in person. So it doesn't really matter what I think, whoever Mullin takes is going to be the guy he believes has the most potential.
     

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