Ron Artest anyone? (merged w/ WFS93's thread)

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Doctor Kajita, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">Artest is a quitter. It does not matter what you can do, if you are a quitter, you are a cancer.</div>

    I agree if you are a quitter, you are a cancer. However, for Artest I never see him quit on the basketball court. Some of the reasons he wants to leave make sense. The way he went about it was inappropriate and the organization and his teammates deserved better. The bottomline is Artest wants a change because of the "Brawl" incident. I'm sure he gets an earful from people every where he goes about it, and he feels a change will be better for him and the Pacers. As long as he's linked to the Pacers, they will always be linked to the "brawl."

    The situations for the Lakers and Warriors are different. I can respect Warrior fans wanting to build a winner through the draft and not let go of talent for a wildcard like Artest. The Warrior fans have waited a decade for this team to come together and so far the Warriors are in the hunt for not only a playoff spot, but also the division title.

    For the Lakers, they need an impact two-way player, and Artest fits the profile. Yeah he comes with a lot of baggage, but PJax is one of the best at managing headcases.

    Let's say the Warriors end up shipping out Dunleavy for Artest. Best-case scenario Artest behaves and gets along with his teammates. If this happens the Warriors will be a force in the post season and I wouldn't put the Finals out of reach for them either. Worst-case scenario, Artest quits and gets suspended for the rest of the season. At least the Warriors have a backup plan ... Michael Pietrus, and moving Dunleavy out allows the Warriors to re-sign him.
     
  2. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    I saw this on the Other board

    "His value in trade is two-fold. The team trading for Dunleavy must take the value as you have stated (which works out to about $8.8 mil). The Warriors can only accept a trade if it matches his CURRENT value ($4.5 mil). That's why it is difficult to trade him."

    I need to look this up, if this is the case, the "Poison Pill" makes more sense
     
  3. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Artest gives the Warriors a player who can defend Ginobili, Kobe, T-Mac, Melo, Ray Allan, Nowitzki, Maggette, and Shawn Marion.
    </div>

    This is SOOOO true and we need that defender so bad because over the years Jrich and Dunleavy have both been burned badly. Dont make me say the word....Piatowski!
     
  4. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">I saw this on the Other board

    "His value in trade is two-fold. The team trading for Dunleavy must take the value as you have stated (which works out to about $8.8 mil). The Warriors can only accept a trade if it matches his CURRENT value ($4.5 mil). That's why it is difficult to trade him."

    I need to look this up, if this is the case, the "Poison Pill" makes more sense</div>

    Yeah. We will trade Dunleavy's 4.5 mils and accept 4.5 mils worth of contract. However, for Indiana's side, they send 4.5 mils worth of contract, but Dunleavy's contract becomes 8.08 mils due to poison pill status. But, as I explained earlier, because of the trade exception, that scenario can happen. I have to say I never realized how powerful trade exception can be. In order to fit about $700,000 gap, 3 mils worth of contract should be added to each team. But, with 2.6 mils exception, it's all taken care of.

    Will I do Dunleavy and Foyle for Artest and Foster? Without a doubt. Like Shapecity mentioned, even if hell broke loose, all we have to replace is Dunleavy at SF, which Pietrus can mimic at least. Besides, we are dumping two long and overpaid contracts for All-Star quality player, who receives 7 mils for next 3 years. Artest may be a gigantic headcase and I am quite disturbed how he handled this situation. However, quitter is not the word I would describe on Artest.

    Now... It's where the dream ends.

    Frankly, I just can't see Indiana receiving those two long contracts, unless they are convinced that Dunleavy will be next Bird. They want a short contract with young prospect, not a 6 years contract, which will bind their finance for a long time. Then, there is Mullin and his never ending love toward Dunleavy. He went out of the limb and signed Dunleavy a year early. Then, he will just ship him out in less than 2 months? It's very hard to imagine...
     
  5. Ryan

    Ryan BBW Member

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    Is this even a legit rumor, well, legit as far as rumors go. The article sounds like just an idea with no real backing. Have there been conversations about this? Any other articles?

    Do you even think Indiana would go for this? Like shape said, even if Artest gets suspended and never plays for us, I'd still do it just to get rid of Foyle's contract and give Dunleavy's money to Peitrus
     
  6. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    Very true, but theoretically you could still try to make a push for Bosh or someone like him, by moving Fisher, Murphy, etc. Or maybe involve the Knicks or Hawks in a 3 way in order for them to balance out their lineups. Then you in theory have cleaned up the "bad signings" and upgraded at every position.

    If you told me that there was a way to have all these guys on our lineup last year even after signing Dunleavy to the contract we did, I'd say no way...

    Davis/Miles/Ellis
    Richardson/Pietrus
    Artest/Cabarkapa/Cheaney
    Diogu/Taft
    Bosh/Foster

    BTW, that roster there, has the potential to contend for a title (no depth at the point or at the 4, but if Davis stays healthy... It could be scary. Oh well, most likely none of it happens, and we're "stuck" with what we have now, which I'm still ok with.

    My tangents have tangents... ha!
     
  7. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting ryanfish:</div><div class="quote_post">Is this even a legit rumor, well, legit as far as rumors go. The article sounds like just an idea with no real backing. Have there been conversations about this? Any other articles?

    Do you even think Indiana would go for this? Like shape said, even if Artest gets suspended and never plays for us, I'd still do it just to get rid of Foyle's contract and give Dunleavy's money to Peitrus</div>

    I seriously doubt that it's legit. Why would Indiana want to punish themselves farther by accepting two long and overpriced contracts? Grant that the package may be better than half of trade proposals other fans are making, but still, I think Indiana can find better one than that. And, I am not sure Mullin also wants Artest for price of Dunleavy either...
     
  8. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    By the way, if the 2 scenarios played out, I'd rename my sig CohanHiredMully
     
  9. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">Very true, but theoretically you could still try to make a push for Bosh or someone like him, by moving Fisher, Murphy, etc. Or maybe involve the Knicks or Hawks in a 3 way in order for them to balance out their lineups. Then you in theory have cleaned up the "bad signings" and upgraded at every position.

    If you told me that there was a way to have all these guys on our lineup last year even after signing Dunleavy to the contract we did, I'd say no way...

    Davis/Miles/Ellis
    Richardson/Pietrus
    Artest/Cabarkapa/Cheaney
    Diogu/Taft
    Bosh/Foster

    BTW, that roster there, has the potential to contend for a title (no depth at the point or at the 4, but if Davis stays healthy... It could be scary. Oh well, most likely none of it happens, and we're "stuck" with what we have now, which I'm still ok with.

    My tangents have tangents... ha!</div>

    First, it's extremely hard to get a rookie who will get a maximum contract like Bosh. Current rookie contract is heavily favored toward teams to resign their own rookies. First, their own team can give the rookie max contract in year 3, when other teams have to wait until year 5. No agent will advise players to not to accept immidiate max contract, and ask them to wait couple years, risking career ending injuries or poor contract year, to sign smaller and one year shorter contract with another team. And, that's providing that the team has 10+ mils caproom to sign him or have a leverage to do a sign and trade deal. That's why all max contracts are signed at year 3. If any of max rookies actually wish to leave their current team, they will first sign the deal and demand a trade later...
     
  10. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    [​IMG] yayaya, I'm dreaming.. I know. I guess you have to crawl before you walk.
     
  11. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    There are some rumors circulating about the Pacer's and Warriors. The fact that the players were questioned about Artest joining the warriors does show that the media has gotten a lead regarding Mullin's interest in Artest. Unless Peja/Magette are thrown at the Pacers, he could come here.

    I would not deal Dunleavy for Artest. Artest is light years better but Artest is a time bomb. If we rent him for a while, then trade him while his value is high that works nicely. Who knows he could embrace his stay here and turn into Rasheed Wallace even though the chances aren't that likely. Dunleavy playing alongside J O'Neal will look very good. Remember Dunleavy scores most of his points off garbage plays and open looks. Run some legit plays for him and he'll look better.

    I would stick to my guns and deal: Pietrus, Foyle and a this year's 1st.
    -With Fisher and developing Montay, I doubt the W's will keep MP2. Artest more than an adequate replacement.
    -Foyle reads poetry.....
    -1st rounder-We won't be a lottery team so it won't hurt so bad.

    Get this done Mullin....seriously!
     
  12. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    I'll say this, if we do land Artest somehow someway. I can say with confidence that we'd get a spot in the playoffs. Even if he is a time bomb... we'd at least make it once. The guy is underpaid, has super strength for his size, he is gifted offensively and most importantly defensively. We're talking about a guy that can shut down King James, Kobe, Ray Allen, etc and can drop 20 pts at the same time.
     
  13. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Make the playoffs once? Vs. blowing up a team that looks on the upswing for the next 5 years? No way. The Warriors have promise that has not been around for at least 11 years. Let's stick to the slow and steady rather than the risk all for one shot. Artest is a time bomb waiting to happen.

    First, you think he's going to go quietly for the next 3 years at his current contract while playing for "Golden State"? Get real. Once he reestablishes himself, he'll demand either we trade him or re up for some absurd max contract.

    Secondly, there is no way Artest plays out the remainder of his days in GS, he'll want to go to some big market after rehabbing for a year, NY or LA.

    Let's not be the rehab center, we want to be the final destination.
     
  14. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    I actually think he'd fit nicely here, as do J-Rich and the other players. Artest is a high risk high return player, and Mullin will probably offer something to Indiana. Who knows, we'd probably make the playoffs for ALL the years if he does come here. Jeez, I didn't say we'd make it only once. I said at LEAST we'd make it once. The West is a crowded place, Warriors need all the help they can get. Chill out dude. "Get real"? haha
     
  15. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    I think Artest wins the Warriors the Pacific Division if they add him and possibly get to the Finals. He fills to voids for the Warriors, perimeter defense and post scoring on offense. What he does off the court is unpredictable, but he's completely focused on the court.

    If he doesn't work out and bolts, you have Pietrus waiting in the wings, plus you were able to unload an ugly contract (Fisher or Foyle).
     
  16. iLL PiLL

    iLL PiLL JBB JustBBall Member

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    artest said he wants to go to the Knicks and he said he gets traded somewhere else he will go there after his contract expires..if we do trade for him i hope give the pacers someone that won't affect our flow towards the playoffs cuz then we'll just be dumping a good player for nothing
     
  17. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Hmmm everyone wondering about contract numbers has a right to be assuming the whole article is bogus... like why is there no mention of poison pill provision (PPP) on Dunleavy's extended contract? That status of the extended contract makes it so trading him is very hard to do much like Base Year Compensation 1 and 2 (BYC).

    The suggested trade from the Marcus Thompson article doesn't work, I think, but I'm pretty sure this one does if Indiana is absolutely nuts in taking it.

    Foyle + Dunleavy (poison pill provision inflates contract to the average of the last year of the rookie scale contract and all the remaining years of the newly extended contract)
    for
    Jonathan Bender + Ron Artest

    Considering that Dunleavy's contract is pretty long with lot of money on it per year and Foyle is an overpaid guy as well with 3 or 4 more years remaining, it's a hard sell.

    We'd be losing an important defensive piece in the middle, an important glue guy, and taking on a constantly injured player for a year or so, but we'd be gaining an all-star with questionable motives.

    Mullin does like Bender's game, but he's never been a factor because of his knees. I don't know if Mullin likes Artest, but they got three things in common. Both were former Pacers, both were former St. John's alumni and both are from the boroughs of New York. That trade would be interesting if it went through. Not a fan of Artest after what he said, so I doubt he would be a Warrior for very long.
     
  18. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Also keep in mind Ron Artest basically betrayed GM Larry Bird. Larry Bird stuck with his ass after he messed up twice, more than twice and continued to believe in him. Artest basically said everything from he's not happy in Indiana with Rick Carlisle and he wants to go to New York. He said he's not happy and that's fine, but I don't think he'll be happy being a Warrior unless it's spelled "Warier". [​IMG]

    I think the Pacers will bite on Quentin Richardson from the Knicks. I mean it's so perfect. Both the traded contracts match and Isiah can't keep still.
     
  19. DynastYWarrioR6

    DynastYWarrioR6 JBB SmurfY

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    well I wouldnt necessarily know if THAT specific article is legit, but let it be known (not that I say it is entirely true..they call these rumours for a reason) that ESPN's rumour central has their article titled "Dunleavy for Artest" or something like that....now I didn't read it because I don't have INSIDER, but I thought yall should know xP

    My opinion on this trade....go for it. (don't kill me if you hate this) but seriously (no offense to Mike) Dunleavy won't be a defensive force like Artest is...Artest can shut down a SG, SF, and some PF's....Artest's offensive game is also much more polished then Mike's....I just don't see Mike's game leveling up to Ron's at all....not defensively or offensively....(once again no offense to Mike)....I mean you always run a risk in a high temper guy on your team, but Artest (IMO) is worth that risk....I'd say go for it...Just imagine how much it would suck to guard the Warriors....you got BDiddy who can make the 3 and drive past people to score or dish...you got JRich who can sink that shot that he worked hard to obtain AND those sick back cuts for dunks...then you factor in Artest who can take a man to the post and hit a 3....I would take Advil before I guard this tandem....this trade would guarantee the Pacific Divison Title...and gives a HIGH chance of making it into the Finals...not only make it to the Finals, but contend against whoever they play there if they get there....like I said before....go for it

    [​IMG]
     
  20. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    Good points, I feel the same way. But the whole question is, is it possible? I haven't read all the rules regarding trades so I wouldn't know but from what others say it seems its not possible.
     

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