Ron Artest anyone? (merged w/ WFS93's thread)

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Doctor Kajita, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. xplicitjc

    xplicitjc cold as a hooker's heart

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    although, off the court, artest could be called a quitter...i've never seen him give less than 100% on the court. kinda like terrell owens...
     
  2. DynastYWarrioR6

    DynastYWarrioR6 JBB SmurfY

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    I don't have ESPN Insider so I haven't read the article, but if ESPN is gonna put up an article like that I would think that it would at least be possible I would actually assume that they thought of possible scenarios already....

    and I agree....he may be a quitter OFF the court...but he is a 100% winner ON the court in MY eyes...he doesn't go out there and not try....he expends his energy to try his best to help his team win the game...his game is not questioned and it shouldn't be.....only negatives would be off court issues and how the future plays out with his urge to go to New York....but if he comes to Golden State and he witnesses how great they could be and how far he can help take them into the postseason....there is no doubt in my mind that postseason success is more than enough to convince him to stay...

    just my two cents
     
  3. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 707to805:</div><div class="quote_post">although, off the court, artest could be called a quitter...i've never seen him give less than 100% on the court. kinda like terrell owens...</div>

    Quitting on the team off the court is just as important as quitting on the court. All for one, one for all is a fundamental principle. If the guys do not buy into that, you are doomed.
     
  4. Rudeezy

    Rudeezy JBB Senior *********

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    I see your point Phil and I also understand that you are a big Dunleavy fan (as am I), but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't want Artest on the team. Yes there are a lot of question marks and risks but I would be willing to take those risks to add a player like Artest to this team. This team could be scary with him in the line up.
    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Artest could be a piece of the puzzle that would lock up a postseason berth for the Warriors, but would Chris Mullin be willing to part with a key reserve, Derek Fisher ($5.4 million), who's shooting nearly 50 percent from 3-point range?

    Plausibility rating (Fisher): 2
    </div>
     
  5. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Rudeezy,

    Its not because we are giving up Dunleavy, its because what we get is Artest. Look throughout history and you will see that teams are built by the assets that you acquire, not by trading, unless its for someone who is relatively unknown, Favre, Steve Young, etc. The Shaq's, Lew Alcindor (Jabbar to you youngsters), Moses Malone, Wilts are the exception.

    Plus, Artest is not one of those franchise guys. Look at the NBA the last 30 years, what great team has acquired a star to put it over the top? The only one I can think of is the Pistons in the 80's with Mark Aguirre and Rasheed. Even the other teams that did not win, Bucks, TrailBlazers, Jazz, developed their own.
     
  6. d money

    d money JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting DynastYWarrioR6:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't have ESPN Insider so I haven't read the article, but if ESPN is gonna put up an article like that I would think that it would at least be possible I would actually assume that they thought of possible scenarios already....

    and I agree....he may be a quitter OFF the court...but he is a 100% winner ON the court in MY eyes...he doesn't go out there and not try....he expends his energy to try his best to help his team win the game...his game is not questioned and it shouldn't be.....only negatives would be off court issues and how the future plays out with his urge to go to New York....but if he comes to Golden State and he witnesses how great they could be and how far he can help take them into the postseason....there is no doubt in my mind that postseason success is more than enough to convince him to stay...

    just my two cents</div>


    i love ron artest but come on.. if the chance of winning a championship in Indiana isn't enough to keep Arest sane and make him want to stay there, why would he want to come to Golden State who isn't as close to winning a title as Indiana is. You can't say GS is closer to winning a title with Artest than Indy is... who's gonna be our center then? Taft? Biendrins? Murphy?...
     
  7. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post"> Look throughout history and you will see that teams are built by the assets that you acquire, not by trading, unless its for someone who is relatively unknown, Favre, Steve Young, etc. The Shaq's, Lew Alcindor (Jabbar to you youngsters), Moses Malone, Wilts are the exception.
    </div>

    We traded for Baron Davis...that was big. T-Mac was traded to Houston, Kidd to the Nets, Barkley to the Suns, Ben Wallace/Rip Hamilton to the Pistons, Jermaine O'Neal to the Pacers, Webber to the Kings etc.

    Near the deadline I'll read about these worthless trades that won't ever amount to anything like Webber leaving Sacto, Marc Jackson to New Jersey, Eric Snow to cleveland etc. but trades are absolutely a great tool to use to push you over the hump in the NBA. That's why every GM does it, preying something happens.
     
  8. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">Rudeezy,

    Its not because we are giving up Dunleavy, its because what we get is Artest. Look throughout history and you will see that teams are built by the assets that you acquire, not by trading, unless its for someone who is relatively unknown, Favre, Steve Young, etc. The Shaq's, Lew Alcindor (Jabbar to you youngsters), Moses Malone, Wilts are the exception.

    Plus, Artest is not one of those franchise guys. Look at the NBA the last 30 years, what great team has acquired a star to put it over the top? The only one I can think of is the Pistons in the 80's with Mark Aguirre and Rasheed. Even the other teams that did not win, Bucks, TrailBlazers, Jazz, developed their own.</div>

    First, building a team with trading is not uncommon. Saint tried to build the team with draft picks, and his efforts only came true when we got Davis by trading, not to mention taking 6 years. 4 out of 5 Detroit Piston starters, Wallace X 2, Billup and Hamilton, Dallas' former big 3 all came from trade, T Mac in Houston and J. O'neal in Indiana also came from trades. Also, if you see a good deal, you do it. For not making a bargain deal by saking of keeping the team just isn't a good idea. Also, the biggest reason is that our front court is just not a long term solution. Our back court is one of the best back court for years to come. However, no matter how long we keep our front court together, they won't be atlathic, stop any elite forwards or centers, score inside or give us advantage in rebounding. We know what we will get from our front court players the moment we signed them, and none of them really has much upside to rely on. And they will be abused to death once we go to PO. If they receive couple pennies for their service, I can understand it. However, combination of Dunleavy, Murphy and Foyle are 27 mils, enough to sign one max player and another 10+ mils player. We are not getting anywhere near close to that money's worth, and if we have a chance to dump those contracts while improving the front court at the same time, we would be fool not to jump on that deal. At worst, we get to dump long and overpriced contracts, and give us more freedom to make future improvement. And at the same time, Artest will behave at least a little bit...
     
  9. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Anyone catch Magic Johnson's comments at halftime of the Cavs-Nuggets game?

    He basically looked into the camera and said, "Ron Artest, this is your last chance to be in the NBA. If you mess up one more time, no one is going to sign you when your current contract is up."

    If anything keeps Ron Artest in check, it's the almighty dollar. I don't think he's going to put a big day at risk because the message has been delivered loud and clear. You mess up, and your done in the NBA.
     
  10. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone catch Magic Johnson's comments at halftime of the Cavs-Nuggets game?

    He basically looked into the camera and said, "Ron Artest, this is your last chance to be in the NBA. If you mess up one more time, no one is going to sign you when your current contract is up."

    If anything keeps Ron Artest in check, it's the almighty dollar. I don't think he's going to put a big day at risk because the message has been delivered loud and clear. You mess up, and your done in the NBA.</div>

    He can always work at Circuit City. [​IMG]

    http://www.bullysports.com/bully/home/Arti...NHu_4598360&v=1
     
  11. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I would love to see the Warriors get Ron Artest. I don't know how. But if the Warriors are able to have 1, 2, 3 with Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Ron Artest, Mickael Pietrus, Monta Ellis(after some time), then that would become one of the best back courts in the league, if not the best. The Warriors would have one of the best PG's, and all star SG/SF in Artest, two shut-down perimeter defenders(and I mean shut down, as in players like Kobe, Tmac, etc.), and of course the team's current leader and work horse in JRich and a high potential young player in Ellis. That would be pretty damn exciting to see form.

    Also I read quickly through some of the comments that Artest has made, and it seems that he wants more freedom on offense and more plays run toward him and he doesn't like the coach's game plan and such. And if this is the case, then I would think Artest would be a perfect fit playing along side Baron Davis who is averaging 10 assists per game and Jason Richardson who is very unselfish, and playing under Mike Montgomery's offense which doesn't seem so structured or however you might call it, all the time(maybe once in a while, usually after a timeout there would be some structure, but other than that, I don't know...I mean if the team can shoot as many three pointers as they do here, then I think Artest could find his freedom on offense somewhere too. Maybe even by getting the team to shoot less three pointers, I don't know. But seriously Artest has always played like a warrior on the court. Joining players like Jason who is a work horse, Pietrus who also plays very hard(if he's not confused about what he needs to do or is worried about foul trouble), and a top PG in Baron Davis, I just see it being a very good situation. Think how much better Baron Davis will make Ron Artest. Think about how much Artest could help the Warriors. I like it...

    And heck, maybe right now Artest wants to go to New York. But I really like the potential of what Artest could do here with the current back-court, and maybe his mind would change once he came and played a few months with this team.

    If the deal is Foyle and Dunleavy for Artest and I don't care who else, then I say do it. I don't think Taft(along with more Diogu) would be a big downgrade from Foyle. Especially if it meant adding Artest over Dunleavy.

    It's also good to hear that the Pacers are more interested in trading to the Western Confrence than the East. But also in the rumors is that the Lakers want him too. And I don't want to see that. I want the Lakers and Phil to lose, hehe...it's probably not good, but I can't lie, I want to see Phil falter, he's won enough already and such, heh.

    But ok, these are my opinions at least. Though I am not sure what trade senarios are being offered now, but, yeah...that's all...
     
  12. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    People love to mention Artests Defense, yes he probably is the best defender in the league. But his offense is well above average as well. If he could ever get to a place where the people around him help him out, maybe he sees some professional help, he has the potential to be MVP (although the league would never give it to him). I think maybe mull can be Artest's Cus D'mato. Who knows. The other wrinkle to all of this, is that Artest will end up coming out west if he doesn't end up here at least for the short term. Hopefully it's not to a team like the Lakers or Kings who we'll be fighting for one of those lower seeds with this season.
     
  13. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">MIXING A BIT of madness with his genius, Billy Beane made his move, summoning the tortured and gifted Milton Bradley, a man as capable of sinking the A's as he is of lifting them.
    Now it's Chris Mullin's turn.

    Ron Artest is on the open market. He is better at basketball than Bradley is at baseball. So much so that, according to ESPN, 15 NBA teams have contacted the Indiana Pacers in hopes of striking a deal.

    Should Mullin find a way to win this lottery, the Warriors finally would have someone to bring the level of toil and fury essential to winning.

    These W's can't expect to go much beyond .500 until they find someone who brings that kind of intensity.

    Artest is a massive risk, but so was Dennis Rodman, who won five championships, with two teams.

    One rumor has Artest and reserve center Jeff Foster coming to Oakland for Adonal Foyle and Mike Dunleavy. The salaries match up. And Mullin spent three seasons playing for Indiana, during which time built an enduring relationship with Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh.

    In the unlikely event Walsh signs off on this deal, Mullin should do it in a heartbeat.

    Artest would instantly become the Warriors' best post defender, best rebounder in traffic, best lockdown defender and most determined competitor.

    The downside? Strictly up to Artest's maturity level. Maybe I'm crazy, but if Mullin believes his team could absorb Artest, it might be worth it to offer any two Warriors other than Baron Davis and Jason Richardson.

    Even if Artest were to wash out here, how much would be lost?

    Though I like Foyle, the man, his court limitations cramp two of the Warriors' greatest strengths — coach Mike Montgomery's play-calling and Davis' creative playmaking.

    And while Dunleavy might someday develop into the star the Warriors envisioned after the 2002 draft, he disappoints more than he satisfies.

    Both Foyle and Dunleavy, whose combined contracts are worth $85 million, are polite and easygoing. They are representative of what is, for the most part, a collection of fine young men.

    Which is a big part of the team's problem. The Warriors are too nice. Too soft. What little backbone they have showed up with Davis. As for the rest of the squad, you couldn't find the mean streak with a microscope.

    Even the W's acknowledge as much. Or at least they did after blowing an 11-point, fourth-quarter lead to Houston this week, resulting in their third consecutive demoralizing home loss.

    Derek Fisher, could this team use a little toughness?

    "Yeah," he said. "But toughness comes in different ways. </div>

    Source

    Interesting parallel to Milton Bradley joining the A's.
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Why do they keep saying (Jeff Foster, Ron Artest for Dunleavy, Foyle) is a legit trade? The salaries don't match up because Mike Dunleavy jr. extended his contract. It's in poison pill provision status.

    Jeez, doesn't anyone do their homework? and if I'm wrong, why don't they even bring up Dunleavy's recently extended contract and the fact it has 5 years extra on it with massive increases? Not one mention. Sure the combined contracts may be the right size, but they are structured differently and therefore there could be issues trading those two particular contracts because of Dunleavy's recent extension.

    Foster's contract would have to be the size of Jonathan Bender's in order to get passed the poison pill status.
     
  15. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Artest said some of the criticism he has received has been unfair. Former NBA great Magic Johnson said Artest doesn't deserve a second chance in the NBA.

    "It's like saying, 'Magic, should your wife give you another chance?'" Artest said "He's saying Ron Artest should have no more second chances. What's worse -- me saying I want to be traded or you cheating on your wife?"</div>

    Here's Artest's latest quotable.
     
  16. YayAreaFanatic

    YayAreaFanatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    Good one, shape...

    Here's a story from back in the day....its definitely gives a different take on Artest...

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">St. John’s True Warrior
    Ron Artest earns his nickname in word and deed
    by Paul Forrester
    December 9 - 15, 1998

    All eyes were on him again. Two consecutive late-game, near-miss losses had left a young St. John's basketball team on the brink of unraveling. It was looking for someone to take responsibility, someone to make sure that tonight's opponent—an under manned St. Francis squad—knew it was playing a top-25 team and not an insecure Big East phantom. And so when Ron Artest confidently called out the Red Storm's first play, before lacing a pass through the defense to teammate Bootsy Thornton for an uncontested layup, it became clear for all to see—team mates, fans, media—that the 19-year-old sophomore would shoulder that burden.

    Artest, as he had done several times al ready in his young college career, had let it be known that he will bow to nothing in leading the Red Storm in word and deed.

    There is plenty to bow to. Especially for a local high school star like Artest. There's the old neighborhood. There's the newspapers and talk radio. And there's the city's long hoops lineage. There's also the pressure of expectations. And for Artest the expectations are nothing less than that he will be the next messiah at St. John's.

    Most would wilt under that kind of scrutiny and play well below their capabilities—turning from "can't miss" to "no way." Others would take to the road and flee the harsh local spotlight—heading to some school in, say, the Atlantic Coast Conference, where the program outweighs any one player.

    But for a select few, a lifetime in New York makes the skin thick enough to suffer the critics and their tongues sharp enough to fire back. It has made Ron Artest a leader. Un questionably the star entering this season, Ar test has accepted the responsibility of that role, not just on the stat sheet but by vocally leading the team—cajoling when upset, encouraging when successful. "Ronnie is a natural-born leader," says Artest's high school coach, Bill Aberer of Manhattan's LaSalle Academy. "He's an emotional kid who wants to win, period. He doesn't want anybody to give less than 100 percent."

    The former McDonald's All-American made that clear this season after a 70-69 loss to Purdue, when he reportedly ripped into his team for not practicing hard and joking around. The loss, which came after the Red Storm held a 16-point half-time lead, followed on the heels of another heartbreaker, a 55-53 defeat to then–No. 3 Stanford, a game that saw St. John's blow another sizable advantage, this one a 10-point lead.

    Although some teammates bristled at Ar test's comments (and asked not to be quoted), the club won its next three games by a combined 74 points, doing so by blowing open close games in the second half.

    "It's important to criticize the team when it needs criticism," says Artest. "But it's just as important to lead the team and pick them up." Against St. Francis last week, Artest chipped in with 17 points, four rebounds, four assists, and a block. But his biggest contribution may have come in practice.

    After forward Reggie Jessie made clear he was unhappy about sitting out during the Purdue game, Jessie torched St. Francis with 16 points off the bench on seven-of-nine shooting, a performance the sophomore credited in part to Artest. "Ronnie told me college is no different from high school," said Jessie. "Just go out and play your game."

    Almost from the moment the heavily recruited Artest arrived on the Jamaica, Queens campus, his influence has marked the team. Early in his freshman season, Artest made a point of defer ring to seniors Felipe Lopez and Zendon Hamilton. With little more than a semester under his belt, though, Artest—frustrated with the string of perplexing losses to teams like Niagara that marked much of the Lopez years—began to speak his mind, blaming himself and his teammates for a lack of focus.

    "He's his worst critic at times," says Aberer. "He's the first to point out he did a bad job. But he's also the first to compliment his teammates." The infusion of leadership, tellingly endorsed by Lopez and Hamilton, helped get St. John's into the NCAA tournament last season for the first time in five years. Along the way, the 18-year-old from Queensbridge became the only Johnie to be named to the Big East's all-tournament team.

    "[When I criticize someone] I hope to be building their confidence, showing them what they are doing wrong," says Artest. "And I expect to be treated the same way." Bold words from a player who isn't even the captain of his team. But then Artest has rarely edited himself.

    "We played Christ the King against Erick Barkley [in the 1997 city semifinals], and we weren't getting him the ball," recalls Aberer. "He said, 'Coach, get me the ball. I'll do it.' He went out and scored 10 of our first 12 points in the second half and we won." Later, in the city championship, heavily favored LaSalle was down 11-2 early in the game when Artest—who had guaranteed victory—pleaded with his teammates to relax during a timeout. The entreaty worked as Aberer's team emerged from the break on a tear and won going away to finish the season 27-0. Along the way, with several similar performances, Artest earned his nickname: "True Warrior."

    "It's hard to encourage vocal leadership," says Aberer. "If you see it you want to nurture it. Most kids today don't want the focus to shine on them. They want to blend in. But if you're going to be a leader, you sometimes have to offend people. Ronnie has no fear of doing that."

    But Jarvis does. While appreciative of Artest's desire to win, the Red Storm's new coach has tried to establish an equality of leadership, a structure in which everyone can lead, no matter their ability. "I think it's important for teams to have leaders, whether they be vocal or otherwise," Jarvis says. "Ronnie happens to be vocal, and as long as it's done in a positive way, I think it's great.

    "When it's time to hop on the team, I'll do that. That's my job. I don't need players nor do I ask players to do that. The coach can be the bad guy."

    So far, Jarvis has been anything but a bad guy. After Fran Fraschilla's two years of in-your-face stewardship, Jarvis's fatherlike direction has suited a team with only one senior well, not only allowing freshman point-guard sensation Barkley the comfort level to make mistakes and not lose his starting job, but giving Tyrone Grant the confidence and playing time to become the team's leading re bounder. Still, the team seems to realize that the words or actions of a peer can break the monotony of listening to one man and one man only.

    "It's good," junior center Albert Richard son says of Artest's assertiveness. "For one thing, you're not just getting help from just the coach. You're learning from each individual, so it's always great for other players on the team to be leaders, no matter who it is."

    Artest maintains his goal in verbally prodding the Red Storm is to help the coaching staff. "Coaches can't keep talking," says the 19-year-old forward. "They'll run out of breath eventually, so you just want to be like a second coach and, hopefully, get everybody on the team to do the same."

    While that's far from a unanimous view in the St. John's locker room—it's a philosophy that has made the Red Storm a Top 25 team and made Artest an NBA prospect—all in the cauldron of New York City.

    Some players wilt, others run. Ron Artest hasn't gone anywhere, and yet he may take St. John's farther than anyone expected.</div>

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9850,forrester,2102,3.html
     
  17. Rudeezy

    Rudeezy JBB Senior *********

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's Artest's latest quotable.</div>Wow, its getting personal.
     
  18. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do they keep saying (Jeff Foster, Ron Artest for Dunleavy, Foyle) is a legit trade? The salaries don't match up because Mike Dunleavy jr. extended his contract. It's in poison pill provision status.

    Jeez, doesn't anyone do their homework? and if I'm wrong, why don't they even bring up Dunleavy's recently extended contract and the fact it has 5 years extra on it with massive increases? Not one mention. Sure the combined contracts may be the right size, but they are structured differently and therefore there could be issues trading those two particular contracts because of Dunleavy's recent extension.

    Foster's contract would have to be the size of Jonathan Bender's in order to get passed the poison pill status.</div>

    Actually, it seems to work with new CBA and Pacer's 2.6 mils exceptin.

    Dunleavy's poison pill status make him 8.1 mils (4.5/1 year + 44 mils/5 years divided by 6). Combined with Foyle's salary, the package makes 15.31 mils. It still is bigger than Artest + Foster package (11.8 * 1.25 = 14.75). But, I heard that Indina has 2.6 mils exception, and if so, difference is bigger than the difference of the package.

    Of course, it only means that it barely works on theory if no other factors are there. Indiana will probably get more then that, and can't imagine Mullin trading Dunleavy...
     
  19. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, it seems to work with new CBA and Pacer's 2.6 mils exceptin.

    Dunleavy's poison pill status make him 8.1 mils (4.5/1 year + 44 mils/5 years divided by 6). Combined with Foyle's salary, the package makes 15.31 mils. It still is bigger than Artest + Foster package (11.8 * 1.25 = 14.75). But, I heard that Indina has 2.6 mils exception, and if so, difference is bigger than the difference of the package.

    Of course, it only means that it barely works on theory if no other factors are there. Indiana will probably get more then that, and can't imagine Mullin trading Dunleavy...</div>
    Trade exception, huh? I actually do remember it being discussed. It slipped my mind though because I didn't know the amount of the exception or I didn't see it.

    Mullin would be a fool not to take this deal if it were even offered. Dunleavy hasn't done anything memorable or consistent thus far and the trend could continue. He was a no show tonight against the Raps and against the Rockets.
     
  20. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yeah. I never realized how powerful the trade exception can be. Without the exception, in order to fill $560,000 gap, you have to include 3 mils contracts from both side, basically making the trade impossible.

    I would love to see the deal happening, but since Indiana received like 15 quality offers, it would be a miracle to receive Artest while trading Dunleavy...
     

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