Nash is OFFICIALLY better than John Stockton

Discussion in 'Out of Bounds' started by ROCK4LIFE, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    I understand. Making up stuff from time to time, instead of using facts, is more fun and easier.

    People have pretty much ripped on the OP in this thread, and deservingly so.

    But I saw another that irked me.

    The implication that Nash is a better shooter than Stockton.

    For his CAREER, Stockton averaged 51.5% from the field. Career. Above 50%. For a Guard. Let that sink in for a minute. Or 5.

    He shot 38.4% from behind the arc. Not great; but definetly not a slouch.

    Nash, OTOH, shoots 47.7% from the field and 42.1% from behind the arc.

    If you take out 3 Point Field Goals (Attempts and Made), Nash's adjusted FG% is 50% in his career.

    If you take out 3 Point Field Goals (Attempts and Made), Stockton's adjusted FG% is 54% in his career.

    Stockton was a better, more efficient shooter. Nash has more range.
     
  2. ROCK4LIFE

    ROCK4LIFE Active Member

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    First off, I've always thought other than a few good seasons, Kidd was overrated. He's a solid point guard, but he still hasn't develop a jumpshot. Nash and Stockton career pts avg is both at 13, and the assist lean toward Stockton. But Nash's ability to make TWO different teams into contenders gives him the edge. Plus, without Malone, Stockton's numbers aren't nearly as high. Without, Amare, Nash had a legit chance at winning a championship last season. He was a better player, especially now that he's found his niche.
     
  3. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    You can't compare them based on how many different teams they've made better, because Stockton's only played on one team his entire career. That's a horrible criteria for a comparison.
     
  4. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, I've always thought other than a few good seasons, Kidd was overrated. He's a solid point guard, but he still hasn't develop a jumpshot. Nash and Stockton career pts avg is both at 13, and the assist lean toward Stockton. But Nash's ability to make TWO different teams into contenders gives him the edge. Plus, without Malone, Stockton's numbers aren't nearly as high. Without, Amare, Nash had a legit chance at winning a championship last season. He was a better player, especially now that he's found his niche.</div>

    Oh, how silly of Stockton to only make one team a contender....while Nash has made two. Considering, you know, Stockton ONLY PLAYED FOR ONE TEAM IN HIS CAREER. Clearly, you accounted for that, right? (The answer is no. Otherwise, you wouldn't have bothered making such a worthless point).

    And the Pheonix team (without Amare) was better overall (with depth) than Utah. Malone was better than anyone else Nash had to play with. But I'd take...say...Diaw over Ostertag. Bell over Russell. Barbosa over Eisley. Thomas over Shandon Anderson. And etc.

    And Stoctkon and Malone had to go thru the MJ/Scottie Pippen led Bulls. That's a bit different than playing, say the Heat (who won it all this year).
     
  5. Moo2K4

    Moo2K4 NBA West Producer

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, I've always thought other than a few good seasons, Kidd was overrated. He's a solid point guard, but he still hasn't develop a jumpshot. Nash and Stockton career pts avg is both at 13, and the assist lean toward Stockton. But Nash's ability to make TWO different teams into contenders gives him the edge. Plus, without Malone, Stockton's numbers aren't nearly as high. Without, Amare, Nash had a legit chance at winning a championship last season. He was a better player, especially now that he's found his niche.</div>Wow...I can't believe I just read this. JKidd....overrated. Ha, yea. If anything, Nash is the overrated one. How can you call a player who has averaged over 9apg his entire career overrated? Or how about the fact that he led a Nets team that began ended with him, RJ, and KMart. Oh, and beyond that, RJ was barely a factor during that first Finals run, cause he was a rookie averaging a shade under 10ppg. And then throw away the fact that, before Jason Kidd, the Nets were nothing. They were a team that wasn't going to win much more than 25 games and go to the lottery year in and year out. He comes in, and they win 52 games in year one and go to the Finals, only to get swept by Shaq and Kobe. Next year, wins 50 games again (did I mention he got robbed of a pair of MVPs....but don't get me started there), and nearly takes the Spurs to a Game 7 that year, only to fall 4-2. He does this all while Nash and his Mavs have regular season success, only to get ousted in the playoffs every year. And now, all of the sudden, Nash is still getting ousted in the playoffs, he's just making it further with a very talented team, he wins two MVPs, and bam, he's the greatest ever. Yet...if Nash was still at Dallas, we probably wouldn't even be having this argument, cause apparently, not being in the spotlight and not being the main focal point of the team means Nash doesn't produce as well. Yea...I can totally see how he could be the greatest ever (note the sarcasm).
     
  6. Flashback

    Flashback JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash is a victim of two great seasons. But, what he's done doesn't compare to what Stockton did in the 90s, when he compiled 10 straight 10+apg years. Nor does it compare to the fact that JKidd had his fewest assists in his rookie season, and has since not had an average of under 8.2 apg. Nash, on the other hand, didn't average 8 apg until 3 years ago, his last with Dallas. Beyond that, Nash has a paltry career apg of 7.1. Lets take that in comparison to JKidds 9.2, Magic's 11.2, and Stockton's 10.5. To put it in even more perspective, Andre Miller has a higher career average (7.2) than Nash. So, in my opinion, you can't call Nash the best ever just cause of two seasons. Look at the career. And if you do that, he's no better than 4th.</div>

    [​IMG] bravo, I love the Andre Miller point... I can't even argue with this guy... it'll hurt my head, I've said that Stock is WAAAY better, thats all I can do...
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa JBB Rockets Fan

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post"> But Nash's ability to make TWO different teams into contenders gives him the edge.</div>

    But Stockton only played for one team. And he got his team to the Finals twice (and if Jordan wasn't around he likely would have won two champonships). Nash has been doing his thing in the post-Jordan era, and he hasn't even gotten to the Finals yet.

    So, that argument doesn't hold.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Plus, without Malone, Stockton's numbers aren't nearly as high.</div>

    Stockton was without Malone in his rookie year, and his last year when he was 40 years old. In the 17 or 18 years in between, when they were together, you could literally count the number of games Stockton didn't have Malone with him on one hand. So, this is just a guess on your part.

    And why use the word "OFFICIALLY"? Did David Stern cosign your post?
     
  8. NJNetz

    NJNetz BBW Banned

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, I've always thought other than a few good seasons, Kidd was overrated. He's a solid point guard, but he still hasn't develop a jumpshot.</div>


    JKidd overrated? At this time I think he is underrated. Kidd didn't have only a few good seasons. I would have to say that his whole career has been great. Kidd is incredible and has been making everyone better that he has played with. From Dallas, to Phoenix, to New Jersey. Their are countless players that were better because of him and I can't say that about Nash.
    Kidd can't shoot a jumpshot and Nash can't play defense. Defense is much more valuable than shooting for a PG. And we have seen Kidd score when the team needed it. When the Nets needed a basket, Kidd would come through a lot of the times. {Referring a lot to the K-Mart era}
     
  9. Midnight Green

    Midnight Green NFLC nflcentral.net Member

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    I’m going to move this to out of bounds since it’s a player comparison thread, but just to drop my two cents in I don’t believe Nash is better than Stockten I don’t even know if I would say he is better than Kidd. Nash has been great these last two years, but prior to that he was just an above average point guard. Kidd and Stockten have/was consistently great throughout their entire careers.
     
  10. Bobcats

    Bobcats JBB JustBBall Member

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    The award for dumbest post of the year goes to (drumroll)...Rock4life!
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa JBB Rockets Fan

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">The award for dumbest post of the year goes to (drumroll)...Rock4life!</div>

    Is that official? [​IMG]
     
  12. Bobcats

    Bobcats JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Is that official? [​IMG]</div>

    [​IMG] [​IMG] If anyone was wondering, Rock4life OFFICIALLY made the dumbest post of the year.[​IMG]
     
  13. TimmyDMVP

    TimmyDMVP JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Is that official? [​IMG]</div>
    it should be made official lol
     
  14. briang8818

    briang8818 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">And why use the word "OFFICIALLY"? Did David Stern cosign your post?</div>Well all he had to do to make it official was shave his head. So yeah, it's now official.
     
  15. ROCK4LIFE

    ROCK4LIFE Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh, how silly of Stockton to only make one team a contender....while Nash has made two. Considering, you know, Stockton ONLY PLAYED FOR ONE TEAM IN HIS CAREER. Clearly, you accounted for that, right? (The answer is no. Otherwise, you wouldn't have bothered making such a worthless point).

    And the Pheonix team (without Amare) was better overall (with depth) than Utah. Malone was better than anyone else Nash had to play with. But I'd take...say...Diaw over Ostertag. Bell over Russell. Barbosa over Eisley. Thomas over Shandon Anderson. And etc.

    And Stoctkon and Malone had to go thru the MJ/Scottie Pippen led Bulls. That's a bit different than playing, say the Heat (who won it all this year).</div>
    You'd take Bell over Russell? That's definatley worth a debate. You also never mentioned Jeff Hornacek. He's better than any of the role players on Phoenix. I don't understand how you think that Phoenix team was better than Utah. Those Utah teams were very good, and might've been great.
     
  16. Pablo23

    Pablo23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Oh! Wait let's not forget...eventhough I hate this guy, "The Glove." I think Gary Payton is better than Nash in overall passing, scoring and DEFENSE. Wow...my conclusion ...Nash is Canadian and overrated.
     
  17. ROCK4LIFE

    ROCK4LIFE Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">[​IMG] [​IMG] If anyone was wondering, Rock4life OFFICIALLY made the dumbest post of the year.[​IMG]</div>
    Anything is better than ur "Menace 2 Society vs Boyz N the Hood" thread. The nerve of some you to be callin anything dumb[​IMG]
     
  18. ROCK4LIFE

    ROCK4LIFE Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pablo23:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh! Wait let's not forget...eventhough I hate this guy, "The Glove." I think Gary Payton is better than Nash in overall passing, scoring and DEFENSE. Wow...my conclusion ...Nash is Canadian and overrated.</div>
    Ur right, he somehow slipped my mind. But Nash could be up there by the time he retires.
     
  19. Moo2K4

    Moo2K4 NBA West Producer

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">You'd take Bell over Russell? That's definatley worth a debate. You also never mentioned Jeff Hornacek. He's better than any of the role players on Phoenix. I don't understand how you think that Phoenix team was better than Utah. Those Utah teams were very good, and might've been great.</div>Jeff Hornacek was good, quite true, as was Russell. But, lets look at what Nash has. Stoudemire is better than anyone but Malone. Same with Marion. Throw in Joe Johnson just last season as better than everyone Stock had outside of Malone. QRich, while he jacked up a lot of treys, still was very good for that type of offense. Raja Bell is better than Russell. He's a better defender and a better shooter than Russell was. To say the least, everything Nash had was essentially better than everyone Stockton had, with the exception of Karl Malone.
     
  20. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Jeff Hornacek was good, quite true, as was Russell. But, lets look at what Nash has. Stoudemire is better than anyone but Malone. Same with Marion. Throw in Joe Johnson just last season as better than everyone Stock had outside of Malone. QRich, while he jacked up a lot of treys, still was very good for that type of offense. Raja Bell is better than Russell. He's a better defender and a better shooter than Russell was. To say the least, everything Nash had was essentially better than everyone Stockton had, with the exception of Karl Malone.</div>


    You beat me to the punch.

    Props.
     

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