This argument started in the gym today when a discussion broke out over who would beat who. The claim was that the 2000 Lakers would destory the teams of the 80s. They were bigger, stronger and the force of both Shaq and Kobe would just be too much. I claimed that the 83 76ers, 86 Celtics, and 87 Lakers would definately beat the 2000 Lakers. The fact that the Lakers almost lost in 7 to Portland is testament to that. Anyway, the discussion became all about Kobe and MJ. Here is why Kobe is better. He has more range and plays against players that can match up with him a lot better (much better, more atheletic 6'6 guards in todays game). Jordan didnt have that challege. He was above and beyond any guard in the NBA atheleticly and they simply couldnt match up. Also, Kobe take much more of a pounding because he is doubled and triple teamed by much bigger and stronger players (players of the 80s were not as big and strong). I disagree with this assessment and would like to here a few people weigh in their opinion before I answer.
I believe that if you took the all-stars of the 80s and put them against the All-stars of today, the 80s would win. Guys are athletically superier today, but lack the shooting, passing and basketball IQ skills. The game was more physical back then, and less finesse, and it's my opinion that basketball played at its highest level is one of physicality. Defending hard, rebounding hard, positioning, screening. Players of the 80s understand those tactics better than today's, IMO. But, then again, you're also debating eras, and there's a strict fine line when it comes to such discussion.
Today's players don't care. They just wanna get their checks. The old guys weren't as athletic, and strong, but they played harder and tougher, and had the fundamentals.
Kobe is not better than Jordan.... Sorry, even being a huge Kobe fan myself, I know for a fact that Kobe is not better than Jordan. If he was, Kobe would be considered the GOAT, which he is not
I think the 2001 Lakers would be a much better arguement to use then the 2000 Lakers. Shaq and Kobe were both beasts during that 15-1 run in the playoffs (if you don't remember).
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is not better than Jordan.... Sorry, even being a huge Kobe fan myself, I know for a fact that Kobe is not better than Jordan. If he was, Kobe would be considered the GOAT, which he is not</div> We're talking about as a player here, not based on accomplishments etc. and I think its a fair arguement. I personally think Kobe is a better player than Jordan was, but Jordan accomplished more.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We're talking about as a player here, not based on accomplishments etc. and I think its a fair arguement. I personally think Kobe is a better player than Jordan was, but Jordan accomplished more.</div> I think you are forgetting how good Jordan was. Kobe is NOT as good as Jordan.
<div class="quote_poster">STC Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think you are forgetting how good Jordan was. Kobe is NOT as good as Jordan.</div> I beg to differ, I've always been alot more impressed from what I've seen Kobe do than what I have Jordan.
http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0416/1539829.html <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">9. Magic who? March 25, 1989. Getting tired of being told he's just a scorer and Magic Johnson is a winner, Mike led the Bulls to a sweep of a Western Conference trip with 21 points, 12 rebounds and 12 assists. It is a period of 14 games in which he averaged 32.6 points, 10.3 rebounds and 11.9 assists and recorded 11 triple-doubles in the 14 games, twice also while scoring more than 40 points.</div> The things Jordan did were simply amazing. I cannot believe people actually believe Kobe is on MJs level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGEiMngGUk&mode=user&search= Kobe vs Michael comparison - i think this sums it up. Also, Kobe himself in a Jim Gray interview laughs at the comparision http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbofRkXSNvs
As a player, playing style, the way he plays the game, Kobe is on Jordans level. On a legacy / accomplishment level, Kobe isnt on Jordans level. You wanna talk about things Kobe hasnt done, well what about the things he has that Jordan hasnt? 4 back to back games of 50+ points, 81 points in a single game etc.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">As a player, playing style, the way he plays the game, Kobe is on Jordans level. On a legacy / accomplishment level, Kobe isnt on Jordans level. You wanna talk about things Kobe hasnt done, well what about the things he has that Jordan hasnt? 4 back to back games of 50+ points, 81 points in a single game etc.</div> That's pretty much it. What else has Kobe done that MJ hasn't done or hadn't done before he came? The triple doubles stat was a good one, I don't see Kobe ever amounting to somehitng like that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> 1993. The Bulls had let the Suns back in the 1993 NBA Finals after winning the first two in Phoenix with a loss at home. In Game 4, Jordan scored 55 points, including 33 in the first half and 16 in a row at one point, for the 3-1 edge. Jordan delighted in lighting up Dan Majerle, a favorite of nemesis Jerry Krause, who always bragged about Majerle's great defense. Jordan set a Finals record averaging 41 points and had four straight games of at least 40 points. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">March 28, 1990. Mike took it out on the Cavs again, scoring his career-high 69 points in an overtime win. He also had 18 rebounds, six assists and four steals.</div> Legendary. Kobe has ways to go.
For a pure skill set, I'd say Kobe Bryant is a better offensive player than Jordan. What makes Jordan's legacy is his defense, which is superior in large part because of his tenacity and will, and in that and because of that, Kobe remains a footnote to Jordan. Furthurmore, I don't think any of those Lakers teams could've beaten the Lakers or Celtics of the 80s. The Celtics had stars at almost every position, with Bird, McHale, and Parrish all in the hall of fame, and Dennis Johnson one of the best defenders of his era. Similarly, the 80s Lakers had Magic, Cooper, Worthy, and Kareem. Kareem, with his sky-hook, would've eaten Shaq alive, and the 2000-2001 Lakers would've had nobody who could've stopped a player like Magic.
Look, I compare Jordan & Kobe as P-L-A-Y-E-R-S, when I factor into who is better, I dont care about the numbers, I dont care about the stats, I dont care about the accomplishments, all I look at is the things these guys do on the court, what they can do with the ball in their hands, and in that respect, Kobe is on Jordans level IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">mmonte4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This argument started in the gym today when a discussion broke out over who would beat who. The claim was that the 2000 Lakers would destory the teams of the 80s. They were bigger, stronger and the force of both Shaq and Kobe would just be too much. I claimed that the 83 76ers, 86 Celtics, and 87 Lakers would definately beat the 2000 Lakers. The fact that the Lakers almost lost in 7 to Portland is testament to that. Anyway, the discussion became all about Kobe and MJ. Here is why Kobe is better. He has more range and plays against players that can match up with him a lot better (much better, more atheletic 6'6 guards in todays game). Jordan didnt have that challege. He was above and beyond any guard in the NBA atheleticly and they simply couldnt match up. Also, Kobe take much more of a pounding because he is doubled and triple teamed by much bigger and stronger players (players of the 80s were not as big and strong). I disagree with this assessment and would like to here a few people weigh in their opinion before I answer.</div> But Jordan played when hand checking was allowed and players could actually play defense. Now the best defense you can see is a bunch of flopping panzies because the defenders have no other way to stop players. IMO that is much harder to overcome than players who are more athletic but not allowed to make any contact or play any legit defense. The 80s players in general were smaller and less athletic but the stars of the 80s aren't too far behind the stars of today as far as size and athleticism is concerned. I think if you take a random team from today and they go up against a random team form the 80s the modern team would win because the overall athleticism of the modern team is too much to overcome. However if its a dream team from modern day guys vs. 80s guy I think 80s guys win because of greater skill with comparable size and athleticism.
Well, Kobe was playing behind Shaq for a while there, while MJ was always the #1 option for the Bulls, so go figure.
Jordan did what was necessary to win. He could easily duplicate what Kobe has done offensively (especially in this era where the rules have been geared to favor perimeter players) or better it if he wanted to sacrifice winning for individual accolades. Some people just don't understand that. Jordan is not only on a different level, but a different universe. And I don't see Kobe reaching that higher plateau of greatness that only Jordan and very few others stand upon.
Comparing Jordan to Kobe is like comparing Big L to Papoose. People are deceived to think they're comparable but they are no where near the level of their predecessors.
