Knicks Trade Francis, Frye, 2008 Second Rounder for Randolph, Jones, Dickau, Nichols

Discussion in 'New York Knicks' started by marcelonbraga, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. Ed!

    Ed! JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why trade Curry? He's a 20-point center who just ranked 1st in points in the paint and is top 5 in free throw attempts last season. I would couple Randolph and Curry to form one of the best offensive post duos in the league. I think Z-Bo compliments Curry well. He can shoot (and has good range for a big) and rebound well. The only big problem is defense and that huge contract. But he averaged 24/10 last season so he definitely worked for his price tag. We also got Fred Jones and Dickau who are expiring this year. They are not big, but they they are players nonetheless. It's definitely an interesting trade when you really look at it. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works out for both teams.

    Also, good luck to Channing Frye and Steve Francis (if they don't buy him out) in Portland.</div>
    I don't think Randolph and Curry could realistically work well, they're such overlapping players. They have the exact same impact on both sides; both need the ball to be effective, neither are great passers, and both score on the low block. This is probably the worst person to pair up with Eddy, as you'll need a weakside shotblocker, and Randolph gets 0.2 blocks per game if I remember correctly. Both are poor post defenders, and the only way to really help Eddy defensively is to put a shot blocker behind him. While the fact he has range may help Eddy, Zach can't rely on his jumpshot to put up 24 ppg with a good percentage. Not to mention this is eating up Lee's minutes.
     
  2. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you think Francis' contract is ugly, then what is ZR's contract? Knicks trade a bad contract for a worse contract. The defense does change because ZR will get major minutes at a front court position that already has Eddy Curry's lacking defense in play right next to him. Teams are going to be able to go inside all day.

    I don't get this trade from either end, I hope they don't expect Franchise to be the PG to get Oden the ball and what do they expect to do with Frye? The Knicks just got the fattest frontcourt in all the league (it will bring in a Kripsy Kreme sponsorship at least) don't improve their frontcourt D but at least they get more scoring, right? Well I said before that they needed to get rid of either Marbury/Francis but I'm not sure if getting ZR exactly fixes that problem.</div>

    Portland is going to buy out Steve Francis and let him become a free agent.
     
  3. Midnight Green

    Midnight Green NFLC nflcentral.net Member

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    I think this can either be a great move, or end up hurting the Knicks more than it helps them. Randolph was unable to stay out of trouble in a smaller city, in Portland. How the heck is he going to handle playing in a city like New York? I'm more concerned about his off the court conduct more than what he is going to bring to the team on it.

    I think the combo of Zach and Curry offensively will open things up for the Knicks shooters, guys like Richardson and Marbury are going to have career years. At the same time, you have to be worried about their defensive short comings. Zach will get you 20 and 10 on a nightly basis but give up about 30 on the defensive end, same with Curry. The Knicks are going to have to score 96-100+ points a game in order to win.

    Talent wise I think the Knicks got the better of the Blazers in this deal. Portland was just trying to get Zach out of town to change the persona of the team. They certainly are no longer considered the jail Blazers. All they have to do now is trade Darius Miles and they are set.
     
  4. sunsfan1357

    sunsfan1357 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Portland is going to buy out Steve Francis and let him become a free agent.</div>

    Yea I just heard that....so that makes me think even more...Portland couldn't get even more value for Randolph than Channing Frye, Dikau, Jones, and a contract they're going to buy out anyway?
     
  5. umair

    umair "Never underestimate the heart of a champion."

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    Finally some thing good for the Knicks fan. They got rid of Stevie Franchise and his contract. And they get a big time forward in Randolph. It was an equal trade for both teams, but I think Knicks got more out of it just seeing how happy Knicks were.
     
  6. Eclipse

    Eclipse JBB JustBBall Member

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    I just think the Blazers wanted to get rid of Randolph's contract, his bad history with team and let Oden/Aldridge develop. The Blazers are planning to buy out Francis' contract to make him a free agent so he's not even in their plans.
     
  7. bronbron23

    bronbron23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I think despite what most people are saying Randolph and Curry can work, imagine you're an NBA coach and you have to face NYK who have Randolph and Currry, yeh they're not great defensively but look at what they can do on offense.
     
  8. tradebark

    tradebark JBB JustBBall Member

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    For Portland, the zbo for Francis deal is because they need to clear out enough cap space for the future.. they have a bunch of picks who will need new contracts in successive years

    plus obviously zbo is the odd man out with their 2 young bigs.. and taking a gamble on Francis while picking up Frye (a good piece) doesnt seem like too bad a deal
     
  9. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    Here's the official deal. The Knicks also get Demetris Nichols and Portland receives a 2008 second rounder from us:

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
    During Thursday night's NBA Draft at the WaMu Theater at Madison Garden, the Knicks announced that they had acquired forward Zach Randolph, guards Fred Jones and Dan Dickau and second-round draft pick Demetris Nichols, the 53rd overall player selected on Thursday, from the Portland Trail Blazers in exchange for Steve Francis, Channing Frye and a second-round pick in 2008.

    Randolph, a five-year NBA veteran, averaged 23.6 points and 10.1 rebounds per game with Portland last season, boosting his scoring average by more than five points and his rebounding average by two boards over the previous season. At age 25, the 6-9, 258-pound Indiana native who played one season at Michigan State, is coming off a career year that included three 40-point games and 15 games with 30 or more points.

    Jones, 28, will be joining his fourth team in two seasons, following a Feb. 22, 2007, deal that saw him leave Toronto in exchange for Juan Dixon. Prior to signing with Toronto for the 2006-07 season, Jones had played for the Indiana Pacers. The 6-2, 220-pound shooting guard has completed five NBA seasons. He started 15 games and averaged 6.5 points per game in 2006-07, and he has a career 7.5 PPG for his career.

    Dickau, a 6-0, 181-pound point guard, gained fame as a college player at Gonzaga, where he led the Zags to two consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances, including a Sweet 16 berth in 2002. Originally drafted by Sacramento with the 28th overall pick in 2002, the 28-year-old came home to his native Portland in a trade with Boston one year ago.

    Coming off the bench, Dickau averaged 3.3 points per game and 1.4 assists per game in 2006-07. Two years earlier, when he started 46 games in a season split between Dallas and New Orleans, Dickau averaged a career-high 12.5 points per game.

    Nichols, 22, played the past four seasons at Syracuse, where he averaged a Big East-leading 18.9 points per game as a senior. The 6-foot-8, 216-pound forward was born in Boston and attended St. Andrew's High School in Barrington, R.I., before entering Syracuse in 2003. </div>
    http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/drafttrade_070628.html
     
  10. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    Apparently a prominent Portland player asked for him to be traded.

    I personally don't see the point of bringing in a duplicate of Eddy Curry to play the 4-spot. Sure, they'll be a headache in the low post, but they'll give up just as many, if not more, points on the other side of the court (can you imagine that duo trying to guard Bosh/Bargnani?). And, of course, this makes it even easier for opposing guards to penetrate against the Knicks. Once again, Isiah ruins what could be a good draft with another moronic trade/signing.
     
  11. N4S

    N4S BBW Member

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    Honestly dont see the Knicks in the playoffs with this move.

    Eddy Curry has never been a defensive minded player and Zach sure as hell isnt.

    Though getting him for the players given up isnt bad but I dont see it helping much.

    Celts, Knicks, and 6ers all probably not that much better this upcoming year.
     
  12. N4S

    N4S BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">bronbron23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think despite what most people are saying Randolph and Curry can work, imagine you're an NBA coach and you have to face NYK who have Randolph and Currry, yeh they're not great defensively but look at what they can do on offense.</div>

    Defense wins championships.
     
  13. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ed!:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think Randolph and Curry could realistically work well, they're such overlapping players. They have the exact same impact on both sides; both need the ball to be effective, neither are great passers, and both score on the low block. This is probably the worst person to pair up with Eddy, as you'll need a weakside shotblocker, and Randolph gets 0.2 blocks per game if I remember correctly. Both are poor post defenders, and the only way to really help Eddy defensively is to put a shot blocker behind him. While the fact he has range may help Eddy, Zach can't rely on his jumpshot to put up 24 ppg with a good percentage. Not to mention this is eating up Lee's minutes.</div>
    First, let’s take a look on offense. Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph, off the top of my head, will be the best post-scoring duo in the entire NBA. Both are 20-point scorers who draw double teams and get to the free throw line. Randolph actually shoots 82% from the line, too. Opposing teams will only get into the penalty earlier, giving us even more free throw attempts.

    With both players on the floor, it will be impossible to double anyone on the court. A zone defense won’t really be effective either since Randolph can shoot and our guards can easily penetrate through the gaps of the zone. I don’t see their games overlapping when Randolph is such a versatile scorer—he can shoot out to 20 feet. People also call him selfish at times, but I think when you’re the best scorer on a team that averages 94 PPG (second worst in the league), it is your job to be ball dominant. In the rebounding department, I see the Knicks easily being the best in the league. Last year they were a top 5 rebounding team (2nd in outrebounding their opponents) so adding another player who averages 10 RPG will only make us better.

    Defensively, we will have a problem. But our defense won’t be any worse than last year, it will just stay the same. Channing Frye and Steve Francis are equally as bad on defense as Randolph. Eddy Curry is supposed to be making his defense a #1 priority this season. If he puts the same amount of effort in his post moves that he will on defense, than our interior should be much better. But even if he doesn’t, our offense will more than outweigh our defense, or lack thereof.
     
  14. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    Chutney, NTC, I got to go to Brooklyn now, so I'll respond later.
     
  15. J_Ray

    J_Ray JBB JustBBall Member

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    The real question in this trade is, will Curry and Randolph score more points that they'll give up?
     
  16. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I personally don't see the point of bringing in a duplicate of Eddy Curry to play the 4-spot. Sure, they'll be a headache in the low post, but they'll give up just as many, if not more, points on the other side of the court (can you imagine that duo trying to guard Bosh/Bargnani?). And, of course, this makes it even easier for opposing guards to penetrate against the Knicks. Once again, Isiah ruins what could be a good draft with another moronic trade/signing.</div>
    Randolph is not a duplicate of Curry. Sure, he is a low post scorer, but he?s a lefty with great range, and averages 10 rebounds per contest, which is a great compliment to Curry. I don?t know why everyone is stressing the defense so much; Channing Frye and Steve Francis were both bad defenders also. So, basically the Knicks gave up two defensive liabilities for one defensive liability. Our defense should be about the same. This trade definitely isn?t moronic. The least you can say is it?s interesting.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly dont see the Knicks in the playoffs with this move.

    Eddy Curry has never been a defensive minded player and Zach sure as hell isnt.

    Though getting him for the players given up isnt bad but I dont see it helping much.

    Celts, Knicks, and 6ers all probably not that much better this upcoming year.</div>
    Well, before the injuries to Q, Lee, and Crawford, the Knicks were in a good position to take anywhere from the sixth to eighth seed. If everyone can stay healthy, I don?t see why the Knicks can?t take one of those seeds next year.

    The defense, like I said earlier, should remain the same because the Knicks traded to defensive liabilities for one. The Celtics should be better (I don?t know about the 76ers) and the Knicks, if they stay healthy, should be better.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blur:</div><div class="quote_post">I think this can either be a great move, or end up hurting the Knicks more than it helps them. Randolph was unable to stay out of trouble in a smaller city, in Portland. How the heck is he going to handle playing in a city like New York? I'm more concerned about his off the court conduct more than what he is going to bring to the team on it.</div>
    You?re right, but Zach has really grown up, especially this past season. I think acquiring Zach is a worthwhile risk. I remember a few years back the Knicks were criticized for acquiring Sprewell, who also had a troubled past. There was actually a time last season when Zach stepped up as a leader and called a team meeting on his own. Not that it makes him spectacular or anything, but it just shows he?s growing up as a person and player.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the combo of Zach and Curry offensively will open things up for the Knicks shooters, guys like Richardson and Marbury are going to have career years. At the same time, you have to be worried about their defensive short comings. Zach will get you 20 and 10 on a nightly basis but give up about 30 on the defensive end, same with Curry. The Knicks are going to have to score 96-100+ points a game in order to win.</div>
    I doubt the defense is that bad, especially since Channing Frye and Steve Francis were also bad defenders, too. I?ve also been talking to some Portland fans and they said his defense has improved (still bad) but I don?t think he and Curry will give up a combined 60 points to the opposition. Both know what they have to work on this summer and hopefully they work on it. Contrary, to what some think, Randolph is actually a very hard worker. I mean, is it even possible to average 24/10 (including three 40-point games and fifteen 30+ point games) without investing hours on your game?
     
  17. Buckets

    Buckets JBB JustBBall Member

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    I for one really like this trade, I think front line with these two should do real good in the eastern conference. Instead of looking at the defensive aspect look at what they can do on offense, Z-Bo is a decent rebounder and Eddy manages to get 7 or 8 a game if Im not mistaken, both these guys can score without a doubt, and I think Eddy's game should really go to the next level with less double teams because of Z-Bo on the other block. I really cant wait to see the knicks next season with this frontcourt, it should be something to watch out for. I think its a High Risk, High Reward situation. It will either work out real good, or real bad.
     
  18. LBJ2006MVP

    LBJ2006MVP JBB JustBBall Member

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    Now have to trade D-Lee he won't improve or progress when Z-bo and Fat Albert will be there at the same time. Possibly trade Jeffries,Lee,Fred Jones, Dick... for Richard Jefferson/AK47?
     
  19. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I like Curry and Z-Bo individually but I don't know how they'll do playing alongside each other. They're both guys who you'd like to pair with a athletic, defensive minded big man to cover their ass on defense and do the dirty work. If they can co-exist then that frontline would dominate the east offensively, and lucky for them not many teams in the east can take advantage of their horrible defense, but like with all Isiah moves there's huge potential for this trade not working out.

    I do like that Randolph has some outside game to open the floor a bit for Curry and that the guy is a horse on the glass unlike Curry, but if it doesn't work out it would be tough to move Randolph somewhere else.

    The only thing thats guaranteed is that this is the most rotund frontline in the league and the Knicks will need to set up a 24 hour Dunkin Donuts in the practice facility to make sure that theres enough for the both of them.
     
  20. NTC

    NTC Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yea I just heard that....so that makes me think even more...Portland couldn't get even more value for Randolph than Channing Frye, Dikau, Jones, and a contract they're going to buy out anyway?</div>

    It was a smart move for Portland IMO, they're only just over the cap right now with Francis' contract, and once it comes off the books ($17,000,000) they'll have space to pay Oden and co.

    Raef LaFrentz contract comes off the books at the same time, so theres $29,000,000 they'll free up in 2009/2010.
     

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