9/7/06 Steelers 28 Dolphins 17

Discussion in 'AFC North' started by DolfanDale, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. Thoth

    Thoth Sisyphus in training

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    I know I posted somewhere that my brother said Nick candy a$$ed the toss just play all angles.
     
  2. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-E-T-S 1083)</div><div class='quotemain'>well if the did overturn the call then the Steelers would have had it on the 1 or 2 yard line if i'm not mistaken so i mean they most likely would have scored anyway but i'll never say never because of that fumble by Batch after that 82 yard drive. Good game by both pretty equal teams but i think the Steelers deserved to win</div>
    I would have to see the tape again before giving the Steelers the ball. If Miller fumbled before he was down or out of bounds, then the football would have gone to the Dolphins because the fumble went through the endzone. That may not have mattered the way Culpepper threw the football in the 4th quarter. I agree though that the Steelers deserved to win.</div>
    the play had nothing to do with a fumble.
     
  3. porky88

    porky88 King of Kings

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    Yeah the ball came out after he was in for a TD but he had control of the ball when his knee touched out of bounce. So it would of been 1st and goal for Pittsburgh at the Miami 2 yard line.

    Dale I was thinking the exact same thing. I decided to rewind and look at it over and over to see if that was the case and it wasn't. He clearly had control of the ball when his knee hit the out of bounce line at about the 2. Who knows though Miami could of held them to a field goal and that would of tied the game up instead of give the Steelers the lead. We'll never know what happens but no shame in losing to the Champs @ home on an emotional opening night even with Charlie Batch as the QB.
     
  4. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vikingfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, I was one of the first people to bring up Saban's weak throw of the flag - but I was only doing it to make fun of Saban.

    It's the REF'S fault that they didn't see the flag. Saban got the flag on the field with PLENTY of time. A ref can easily look over to see if there is a bright red flag on a green field. That's their job.

    I'm almost sorry I made fun of Saban - I don't want to be thought of as blaming him for the ref's mistakes.

    [​IMG] One game into the season and we are already yelling about the refs.</div>
    It's not the refs fault, it is the coaches responsibility to get the refs attention. He waited until the Steelers were about to snap the ball, then tossed the flag behind the ref. Every other coach in football knows (as they were told) that there is no buzzer and it is up to the coach to make sure he gets the refs attention. Do you really expect the refs to be watching the coach to see if he is going to toss the flag when a team is set up to snap the ball? That was Saban's fault, he could plainly see that everyone was watching the snap of the ball and he tossed the flag behind the ref's back along the sideline, he won't make that mistake again I'm sure.
     
  5. Bears#1Fan

    Bears#1Fan nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (manny)</div><div class='quotemain'>He should have run down the sideline and thrown in front of an official even at an official.</div>
    i belive thats a penalty and i am sure a fine
     
  6. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Im mildly disappointed....and encouraged....6 minutes left, the Dolphins are leading and have the Steelers pinned back, so they played with them until that point....Im disappointed a mental mistake turned into an 84 yard completion, and more disappointed that the refs made it an 87 yard TD and missed a challenge flag....both teams played well enough to win, but the Steelers playmakes made the plays in the end....its not the end of the world, its just week 1, but Jets fans can flame me up, because when the Redskins beat the Jets on the opening thursday a few years ago, I took great pleasure in stating the Jets had the worst record in the league....flame away....</div>
    First of all, the ball would have been inside the 1 yard line if you watched the replay without bias. Secondly, how was heath miller beating a linebacker on a route a mental mistake? it's not like nobody covered him, Thomas just covered him poorly...Miller is faster and more talented than he gets credit for. Let me ask you this? Why arent we talking about the obvious pass interference call that the refs blew? Had they called that , the Steelers would have been set up deep in Miami territory instead of punting the ball...then Miami returns the ball inside the Steeler 10. That was a much more game changing event. The Steelers would have been 1st and goal from inside the 1 if he challeneged the Miller play.... the no call ended up being a point swing. The Steeler haters have to cling to something I guess. I was a little dissapointed also, in the pass interference no call, the Batch fumble and the Taylor dropped int in the end zone. take away those three errors and the Steelers win it in a serious smack down. Miami didn't play as well as you are giving them credit for...
     
  7. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bears#1Fan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (manny)</div><div class='quotemain'>He should have run down the sideline and thrown in front of an official even at an official.</div>
    i belive thats a penalty and i am sure a fine</div>
    The coaches are told that they are allowed to leave the box in that situation, the NFL released a statement after the game stating exactly that.
     
  8. DolfanDale

    DolfanDale Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah the ball came out after he was in for a TD but he had control of the ball when his knee touched out of bounce. So it would of been 1st and goal for Pittsburgh at the Miami 2 yard line.

    Dale I was thinking the exact same thing. I decided to rewind and look at it over and over to see if that was the case and it wasn't. He clearly had control of the ball when his knee hit the out of bounce line at about the 2. Who knows though Miami could of held them to a field goal and that would of tied the game up instead of give the Steelers the lead. We'll never know what happens but no shame in losing to the Champs @ home on an emotional opening night even with Charlie Batch as the QB.</div>
    Your right. I had a chance to see the play again and he was down before the ball popped loose. But, if they had gotten a first and goal and still scored, how much time could they have run off the clock. It might have given us a better shot by having them score quickly, except the offense couldn't make good with the opportunity. I must say that Charlie Batch didn't struggle like I thought he might, but I didn't think he would Hines Ward to throw to either.
     
  9. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (manofsteel)</div><div class='quotemain'>Secondly, how was heath miller beating a linebacker on a route a mental mistake? it's not like nobody covered him, Thomas just covered him poorly...</div>
    That was a busted coverage all the way....no defense is designed to leave a LB one on one with a TE with no safety over the top....it just doesnt happen....in the post game press conference, the safetys both said that 1 side of the secondary played one defense and the other side played another, thus, a mental mistake....if you dont know what your talking about, maybe you shouldnt talk....its better to be thought a fool while being quiet than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....the Steelers didnt play as well as you are giving them credit for....neither team played well....one team made more mistakes than the other, and that decided the game, bottomline....and you might not of gotten the short pass interference that you wanted, but you got the long one in which your WR was the one doing the interfering, barring the DB with one arm and reaching out with the other....
     
  10. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (manofsteel)</div><div class='quotemain'>Secondly, how was heath miller beating a linebacker on a route a mental mistake? it's not like nobody covered him, Thomas just covered him poorly...</div>
    That was a busted coverage all the way....no defense is designed to leave a LB one on one with a TE with no safety over the top....it just doesnt happen....in the post game press conference, the safetys both said that 1 side of the secondary played one defense and the other side played another, thus, a mental mistake....if you dont know what your talking about, maybe you shouldnt talk....its better to be thought a fool while being quiet than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....the Steelers didnt play as well as you are giving them credit for....neither team played well....one team made more mistakes than the other, and that decided the game, bottomline....and you might not of gotten the short pass interference that you wanted, but you got the long one in which your WR was the one doing the interfering, barring the DB with one arm and reaching out with the other....</div>
    Who do you think the LB is supposed to cover? It was about a 7 yard pass, Miller was definitely LB responsibility 7 yards deep. There is no way that you would ever see a safety over the top of a TE seven yards deep, that is ridiculous to even suggest. I'm sure the safeties were much more worried about the WRs anyway. Do you honestly think that when they design a defense to cover receivers that the safety's responsibility is to make sure the LB has help over the top with a TE? What abou the WRs? A safety is not going to leave a CB one on one with a WR so he can help over the top with a TE. Did you even watch the game or just the highlights? That obvious no call that even the crew said was obvious was on something like a 45 yard pass deep into Dolphins territory. The call the made was on a much shorter pass, and yes that was a less obvious call but the call they blew already took the ball away from Pittsburgh and gave Miami 7 points. The mistakes that The Steelers made kept Miami in the game. The three errors I named earlier made the game close otherwise it would have been a blowout. I get that you don't like the Steelers but your biased opinion is making you look like a fool.
     
  11. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    I actually just read Saban's quote, he said Thomas wasn't even supposed to be covering Miller, because they were in a 3-deep zone. Although I don't know who has underneath coverage in a 3 deep like that, they definitely blew the coverage behind him. So I was wrong, that would definitely be a mental error. Now, I still don't see how anyone could say the Steelers didn't play well. They were playing with a back-up QB against a team that many have picked to make it to the super bowl. I think they played quite well. Last of all, that "pititful" wr depth that you called out before the game did quite well even with Batch throwing them the ball.
     
  12. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (manofsteel)</div><div class='quotemain'>Last of all, that "pititful" wr depth that you called out before the game did quite well even with Batch throwing them the ball.</div>
    Its this kind of statement that is making you look like a fool....you assume because the team won the game and scored 28 points that the WR depth "did quite well", but the reality is, they caught 3 passes the entire game....that brings thier career totals to 4(someone call Canton)....3 catches for 38 yards and a TD isnt even "quite well" for a single WR, much less as the collective numbers of 4....I won't even get into the fine points of teaching you who covers whom in a 3 deep zone, you likely wouldn't get it anyway....
     
  13. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (manofsteel)</div><div class='quotemain'>Last of all, that "pititful" wr depth that you called out before the game did quite well even with Batch throwing them the ball.</div>
    Its this kind of statement that is making you look like a fool....you assume because the team won the game and scored 28 points that the WR depth "did quite well", but the reality is, they caught 3 passes the entire game....that brings thier career totals to 4(someone call Canton)....3 catches for 38 yards and a TD isnt even "quite well" for a single WR, much less as the collective numbers of 4....I won't even get into the fine points of teaching you who covers whom in a 3 deep zone, you likely wouldn't get it anyway....</div>
    yeah i"m sure you are a football guru..... the fact is, you have no idea who is supposed to have underneath coverage in a 3-deep zone because it is different for just about every defensive call. It may have been a mental error in coverage, but Miller still made the short catch and outran the entire defense. 8 receptions out of the 15 total were made by WRs, this from a back-up QB. And Washingotn made a great catch for that first Touchdown.....he is part of that depth you call out. and I am telling you right now...he is better than you and alot of other people realize. Now, when you said the Steelers didn't play well did you mean the way they stuffed the run game? the sacks? the 2 ints, one for a score? the three touchdown passes from a back-up QB? Tell me honestly, did you watch the game or just the highlights? I really am curious.....
     
  14. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    I know enough about a 3 deep zone to know there were 3 men assigned to take a deep 3rd of the field and make sure no one got deeper than them, and that no one was deeper than the TE on that play, thus the blown coverage that any knowledgable fan identified immediately....I know that in the NFL, on 1st and 10, with the opponent pinned at its 13 yard line, no matter defense you call, it will have atleast one player assigned as the deepest defender, and his job is to make sure no one is deeper than him at any time....since 1 is the minimum number of deep zone you would ever see at that down and distance from that field position, its was evident immediately that someone wasnt where they were supposed to be....you asssert that I cant have any idea of who ahs underneath coverage on that play, but the underneath coverage wasnt the problem....if the defense is imployed correct, even if the underneath coverage fails, the deep coverage limits the damage, which didnt not happen....

    We are talking depth here, not overall WRs so you cant count the starters....3 catches, 38 yards and 1 TD, thats it....Washington did make a nice a catch on the TD, but by no means does that make him a good WR....other than 1 jump ball, he was completley unproductive....

    I said the reality is neither team played that well....with 6 minutes to go in the game, the score is 17-14, both offenses have had a mediocre night and both defenses have played relatively well, but been gashed by big plays....niether team had done anything special to take control of the game and it looked destined to go down to the wire....then a blown coverage and a dumb throw my one QB and the game is out of hand....you act like the Steelers were threatening to open up 50 point leads all night, but with 6 minutes to go, they were behind and pinned deep....so, i say again, its not like they reinvented the wheel here, they made the plays and won a close game....

    I watched every play from kickoff to final whistle....see, Im a real fan of my team, I study them, I watch them when they play, and I show up here to take my medicine when they lose....Im also a realist, so its a little easier for me to take than for you because i dont view the world through black and yellow colored glasses....
     
  15. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    well, I can guarantee you that there were probably a couple of guys deeper than the 10 yards past the line of scrimmage where Miller caught the ball. I can guarantee you there were a couple of Pittsburgh WRs deeper than Miller was....would have to assume someone was covering them. The fact is, the underneath coverage was not there and the rest of the secondary just didn't take the right angle on him. I can guarantee the Dolphins didn't have 11 guys within 10 yards of the ball.
    As far as it being a mental mistake...how many mental mistakes do you think are made during a game? The good teams take advantage of those mistakes.
    If you talk depth about any position you have to count EVERY player at the position, it wouldn't make any sense to leave one or more receivers out. So by depth I would assume we are talking about the overall talent level of every guy on the roster at that position. make sense? And my opinion that the overall talent level is better than alot of people think stands. Even with the backup QB in they managed to get 2 touchdown catches....didn't get a ton of receptions you say? well, they didnt throw a whole lot. When they did, they more han got the job done.
    I am as realistic as anyone about my team. If you go back to the three errors I keep talking about, then the game is a blow out, even the missed FG. Add the field goal and take away that fumble and the score would have been 38 -17 assume the Steelers scored after the pass interference
    and it would have been a 7 point swing. then you are talking 45 -10. Obviously, you can break alot of games down like this but not if your team didn't outplay their opponent...Parker had 115 yards rushing ....Brown had 30.....Batch threw for 3 scores, Culpepper threw 2 picks The Steelers played pretty darn well man, you really have to give them some credit here....The Dolphins were outplayed.
     
  16. DolfanDale

    DolfanDale Active Member

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    Depth is not about starting talent. Depth is about bench talent and their ability to produce. The less dropoff you have in production when your backups come in then the better depth you have. The Steelers do not have great depth at WR. Don't feel bad. The Dolphins don't either.

    No Dolphin fan in this forum has disputed that the Steelers should have won the game, but I'm not listening to anything about a mistake here or penalty there and it would have been a blowout. Your sounding like a Seahawks fan after the Super Bowl. The fact is that the Dolphins had a lead going into the 4th quarter and were giving the Steelers a competitive game until that time. If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, you might want to see a certain HOF QB about his most recent endorsement.

    http://www.fabuloussavings.com/online/us/n...eightlossfoods/
     
  17. Thoth

    Thoth Sisyphus in training

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    There is/was no shame is losing to the defending champ. Miami IMO had more to gain and everything to learn.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>Depth is not about starting talent. Depth is about bench talent and their ability to produce.</div>
    Exactly. Saban has said that its about the bottom 20 not the top 20. Miami is not quite there...yet.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>No Dolphin fan in this forum has disputed that the Steelers should have won the game, but I'm not listening to anything about a mistake here or penalty there and it would have been a blowout.</div>
    It dawned on me that had this been the previous coaching staff that Miami probably would have got blown out but that is conjecture & speculation. Thank Heavens that it did not come to come to pass... or run.

    Dale, beef, & myself have all said (in some form or another) the better team won. We <u> could have offered an excuse like Travis Daniels (arguably Miami's best CB) didn't play.</u> But, we didn't

    Of course, I also have said the only thing worse than sore loser is an ungracious winner.
     
  18. Cowher&Frown Co.

    Cowher&Frown Co. nfl-*****s member

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    those corners for the phins were just aweful...
     
  19. manofsteel

    manofsteel nfl-*****s member

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    I do agree that depth means the ability of a 3rd and 4th receiver to produce as well as the 1st and 2nd, but you can't look at just the back-ups to decribe depth. You have to look at the WR corps as a whole. And as I said before the Steelers Corps overall is better than alot of people realize.

    You guys are right about breaking the game down to every play, I don't want to be the guy that keeps bringing up the if only this or that. It was just the other poster...The Beef I think, said that both teams played badly and in the end one made less mistakes. Thats not what happened, Piitsburgh outplayed Miami any way you look at it. Pittsburgh's defense was outstanding, the running game was great and the passing game was virtually error-free. How much better could pittsburgh have played against a team that is projected to compete for the superbowl?
    Beef thinks I look through black and gold glasses, but I can admit when my team is outplayed. If we are taking away the if this or that then lets just look at the game.....Miami was outplayed.
     
  20. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    MoS keeps bringing out these "what if" scenarios like what if the Steeler had made the interception in the back of the endzone and what if the someone had done this or that....he claims it could have been 45-10....well, what if Chambers catches the 1st and goal pass that hit him in the hands? what if Hagan didnt have a steeler riding him around the end zone like a bull on 2nd and goal? Then its 21-14 instead....what if the fumble had bounced 6 inches higher so instead of having to fall on the ground to get it, Will Allen snatches it in stride and goes 98 yards? Now its 28-14 and the rout is on.....the point being, if you play the "What If" game, that goes both ways....

    Next, I knew you didnt know much about football, but I assumed you could read....Show me where I said both teams played poorly? I actaully said neither played all that well....and I bet both coaches would back me up on that....when neither offense does crap out side of a few big plays, no coach is going to be satisfied....so neiher offense was consitent, both defenses got gashed on big plays more than once , and both teams commited unforced errors....in the end, neither team played all that well....
     

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