Nelson Upset with Warriors

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Shapecity, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Don Nelson wants to be happy, the Warriors want to make him happy, and yet here they still stand, mutually unhappy and staring into the dark void.

    Is this long, strange renegotiation standoff between coach and franchise about money? Yes, it's always about money. About $5.1 million in guaranteed money over the next two seasons, as far as I can decipher.

    But it's also about the root motivations and personal histories of both Nelson, the master strategist and fearsome poker player, and owner Chris Cohan, who has made his fair share of mistakes and has paid dear money for them.

    The latest on the talks: Nelson is telling friends that he's upset with the Warriors' most recent proposal and that the next week or so could be the tipping point.

    Is he serious enough to stay away from training camp in October? Many people familiar with Nelson note that he would be walking away from millions if he quit, and Nelson has no history of monetary sacrifice.

    Still, he is a man of pride, and now that the negotiations have come this far, it might be foolish for the Warriors to call Nelson's bluff.

    It's almost September. Who exactly would the Warriors get to coach this team, rebuilt to Nelson's exotic but successful specifications, if it's not Nelson?

    "All is quiet on the Western front," Nelson's lawyer, John O'Connor, said Tuesday when asked about the state of talks.</div>

    Source: SJ Mercury News
     
  2. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    And it begins...

    Cohan... must... get... rid... of

    If we had a better owner, it wouldn't come down to this.

    And this is just opinion, I know he ain't the worst, but he'll never be above the halfway mark.
     
  3. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Given the circumstances:

    - Cohan has opened his pockets over the last few years

    - Nellie was AWESOME for this team last year

    - Mullin has been actively assembling a team that will specifically fit Nellie's system (and may not fit other systems)

    - We're getting close to show-time

    It's seems amazing to me that this could be happening. If Nelson leaves, that would basically be like a bunch of kids spending hours building an intricate sand castle, only to have a sudden tide come and wash it into a mound of sloppy sand. We'd be screwed IMO
     
  4. HiRez

    HiRez Overlord

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    I have to completely disagree with you, CR. This is all Nelson's doing. The man signed a contract and now instead of living up to it, he's acting like a spoiled, temperamental child who, after getting the GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip, decides he wants the Tonka dumptruck too. I was a big Nelson fan but his behavior is shameful and I don't blame Cohan for not caving in.
     
  5. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Shouldn't Nelson get rewarded though? It was the beef with the organization that sent him packing in the first place. They basically fired him and forgot that with him we had a chance of making the playoffs with his assertiveness on the floor and his gm-ing skills. Whose way of winning was more right? Who came in and saved Mullin's ass and to some degree, Cohan's? It was Nelson. He knows his style of ball will work for regular season and he knows how to find pieces that will work in his system. The guy should get the money if the organization is really serious about keeping him. He's an old man, he needs incentives. He knows he can't win a ring based on his style, but these are the players we have.

    On the other hand, maybe nobody is to blame like you two are mentioning. It's probably the fact maybe the Warriors do know that Nelson's style cannot win a ring, so they need to find a coach that can preach defense and feed the ball to one of our big guys (if we have any that can bang inside). Nelson could choose to retire on us before we get a chance to build on last year's momentum. Maybe we need a coach who can run and do a halfcourt game and preach defense.
     
  6. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Nobody should take something less than they are worth out of loyalty, otherwise organizations will just capitalize on it. Guys who receive a lot of money have to deal with the pressure of living up to expectations. If he's worth it, spend the money, it doesn't count against our cap or luxury tax, does it?
     
  7. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Shouldn't Nelson get rewarded though? It was the beef with the organization that sent him packing in the first place. They basically fired him and forgot that with him we had a chance of making the playoffs with his assertiveness on the floor and his gm-ing skills. Whose way of winning was more right? Who came in and saved Mullin's ass and to some degree, Cohan's? It was Nelson. He knows his style of ball will work for regular season and he knows how to find pieces that will work in his system. The guy should get the money if the organization is really serious about keeping him. He's an old man, he needs incentives. He knows he can't win a ring based on his style, but these are the players we have.</div>

    So are you saying anyone should be able to rework their contract because they had one surprisingly good year? Most fans are against players threatening to not play or honor their contract because they had a good year. I'm not sure why Nelson is any different.

    I thought Nelson was rewarded last season through his bonus incentives for making the playoffs, and he will again if he achieves the same results.

    Am I missing something here?
     
  8. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So are you saying anyone should be able to rework their contract because they had one surprisingly good year? Most fans are against players threatening to not play or honor their contract because they had a good year. I'm not sure why Nelson is any different.

    I thought Nelson was rewarded last season through his bonus incentives for making the playoffs, and he will again if he achieves the same results.

    Am I missing something here?</div>

    Don't you think there's an exception in this case? We're not dealing with some young kid who is still learning the game and think's he's a superstar or an all-star when he isn't leading the team to wins. We're dealing with Nelson. Do we want him or not? I'm just saying, what is our leverage really? This deal probably will still be a lot cheaper than what we paid Foyle for doing nothing. Give the man what he wants unless we feel he'll retire on us leaving us back to square 1.

    Players vs. impact senior coach is a totally different thing if he's got the players.
     
  9. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Here is what I think. I can appreciate rewarding him for getting this team to the playoffs and doing very well in the playoffs. However, was he going to give back some of his salary had GS NOT made the playoffs? APSOLUTELY NOT! So why should Cohan be forced to give Nelson more? That is a double standard. Nelson is probably one of the highest paid coaches in the league. What else does he want? Does he want to be the highest paid? This team got lucky to win so many games and all the other teams fighting for the 8th seed stumble. Had those other teams won the games they were supposed to win, we probably would not even be in this situation. I will be upset with Nelson if he walks instead of honoring his contract...
     
  10. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    True, WFS93, but we're talking an old guy who is probably the best coach for us out there right now. This is a guy who probably knows he might retire so he wants all that money. I can't blame him. I think he's worth more than the amount originally given. I'm just thinking compared to the alternative, it's better to just give in to him.

    But that's just me. I think without Sjax and AH and being stuck with Murph and Dun, any coach would be screwed. If we wanna play hardball as well, let's find other coaches.
     
  11. Wild Child

    Wild Child JBB JustBBall Member

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    He signed a deal last year, and I think he should stick to it. I don't think he, or any player, or any member of management should be able to hold the team hostage. He got the incentives last year, and he was lucky to get them, because without the big trade we never would have made the playoffs. Mullin put that together for him. I say give him more incentives this year, like 5 mil if he gets us a freakin' ring! [​IMG]
     
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Man everyone is against me. LOL. I'm just saying giving him what he wants is chump change in comparrison to overpaying schmucks like Murphy, Dun, Foyle, and Fisher. C'mon 5 mil should be nothing! Remember we're dealing with a proven regular season coach when he gets his guys. We're not giving him 4 to 5 mil for the next 6 years or 7-10 mil for the next 5 years. Okay, I'll shutup. [​IMG]
     
  13. HiRez

    HiRez Overlord

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    I don't think anyone is arguing that he's not worth it. It's just a matter of principle. If he wanted more, he should have had it written into the contract that HE SIGNED HIS NAME TO. If he thought making playoffs would increase his value, why not put an incentive for that into the contract? He's been around the block more than a few times, I don't think he's got much of an excuse, and it's not like he's exactly starving on his current contract either. Sure I want to see back, but sorry, but I cannot feel bad for him. It's a scumbag move pure and simple.
     
  14. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    We might not have all the details yet, on just what exactly was pre-arranged by Nellie and the Warriors front office. Nellie complaining about his current deal is uncharacteristic for him.

    Perhaps he had a deal with Cohen, that if he made the playoffs in year one, then he could re-negotiate and opt out of his current contract.
     
  15. warriorsman

    warriorsman BBW Member

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    Nellie should get a raise. He is a very good coach and as helped us get abck to the top.
     
  16. Iron Shiek

    Iron Shiek Maintain and Hold It Down

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    Everywhere that Nellie goes he always ends up in a ugly battle with ownership over money that he feels like he owed.

    Ownership should not set the precedent of letting someone bully them into restructuring their contract. If Nellie wants to walk let him walk. He is great for the organization but he is not the long term solution for this franchise. Nor is he capable of leading this team to a championship run.

    Nellie may feel entitled to more money. But if he were smart he wouldn't be doing this in the media. If they didn't meet his demands he would just walk without the public having to have a play by play of his selfish demands.
     
  17. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I can't disagree with any of these arguments. I'm just hoping Nelson is coaching this for at least this season. If he decides to leave like this, then my opinion of him changes drastically.

    I can see Cohen's point of view. Right now Baron wants a contract extention (who is already getting a lot of money on his existing contract), Monta and Biedrins are up for new contracts at the end of this season, and now Nelson wants more money? I think Mike Montgomery still may be getting paid, unless if last season was the last year of his contract. So I can see Cohen saying, "whoa-nellie there, hold your horses." Plus didn't Cohen just get in some potential major trouble because of some tax thing or what have you? I recall something a few months ago about him being sued perhaps for many millions of dollars.

    I guess we'll have to see how this turns out. Perhaps we'll be seeing Keith Smart as head coach for this season...
     
  18. Montaman

    Montaman JBB JustBBall Member

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    My opinion which is one that I haven't heard thrown about too much, is that while Nelson certainly seems to enjoy his money, and is known to be perhaps a somewhat sly and manipulative fellow, I don't think what he's doing is any different than anything professional athletes routinely do, and I'm not the sort who gets upset over it. Realistically, I'm sure Nelson knew coming out of retirement, and with his non-traditional style of coaching, that he wouldn't be able to command a powerful salary right out of the gate, and now that he's proven the Warriors can at least be a competitive playoff team with him at the helm, he wants to up his cash intake.

    On top of that, it's well documented that Nelson's health deteriorates over the course of a season. He's a guy who seems to have led a rather hard partying lifestyle, works in an estremely stressful profession (regardless of how cavalier he may seem in interviews) and over last season he fluctuated between mildly overweight and significantly overweight as he creeps up on 70 years old. Perhaps there's a reluctance to devote yourself to something that could, at this point, be literally shortening how much life he has left? Especially when without incentives, he's making less money than others in his profession?
     
  19. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    If Nelson ends up retiring, then I nominate Mullin as coach/GM. He's the only guy I can think of at this point to replace Nelson and keep the team going in the same direction.

    I'm kinda PO'd today because James Posey signed with Boston. He would've been a great fit here because of his defense and rebounding and upgrade from Pietrus. He could shoot from the field even though he's not that good from 3-pt land.
     
  20. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yeah, we should have nabbed Posey in a s&t for Pietrus. Oh well.

    As far as Mully, I just don't see him being a good coach, though I don't know exactly why. He's a gym rat and a good business man, but I just don't see it. Too young? I don't know.
     

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