Where's BF1 when you need him? The missing element in this argument is, of course, Favre's involvement. Or should I say..."deal making?"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>The NFL is a business. If the players don't like the policy then perhaps they should go play in the MLB. They chose to play in professional football and they very well should know the policy the NFL has. It's as simple as that.</div> So the NFL should be able to do whatever it wants and forget about what the players want. That sounds like the type of thing that leads to a strike. You do realize that without football players there is NO NFL, right? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>That policy is pretty much put to rest now. The Packers redid Donald Driver's and Al Harris' contract in the time span of a year and both had multiple years left on their contract. Ron Wolf had that policy as did Mike Sherman. However Ted Thompson apparently does not. Ted Thompson?s policy seems to be commit to us and we?ll commit to you. In Javon Walker's case he did not go to the Packers and ask for more money first quietly. He told them pay more or I will holdout. I wasn?t aware that you had spoken with Ted Thompson and you had found out that he talked to Javon like a child. I was under the impression that the Packers had no contract talks with Walker at all. Walker the whole time was bluffing and the Packers callled it. Javon Walker took bad advice from his agent and followed in the footsteps of Mike McKenzie. If he would of went down the road of Donald Driver and Al Harris I?m sure things would have been different.</div> First, I never used the word "child". I did use say "like an adult, who risks his career on every snap and not like a piece of property." No, I don't have to speak to Ted Thompson to know that the he was treating Javon Walker like a piece of property by not talking to him. Since you have so graciously reminded us that the old policy has been thrown out, then why couldn't Ted Thompson speak to Javon Walker with more than a year left on his contract? It apparently was a capricous decision. However, I'm not going to debate this any farther because you attitude is becoming condecending regarding what I know because I've never spoken to Ted Thompson. Do you sit in on Packer personnel meetings? How do you know the Packers planned on taking care of Javon Walker? I really can't stand those "I live here so I know" arguments. I don't care if you deliever Ted Thompson's newspaper, just because a person lives in Green Bay doesn't mean they know anymore about what goes on in that front office than anyone else. Everyone on this board is speculating and offering their opinions. That's great. Is your opinion different than mine? Great. Want to debate? Great. Just don't act like your more of an expert because of some homefield advantage. By the way, I did notice that you didn't bother to answer ANY of my questions directly.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>So the NFL should be able to do whatever it wants and forget about what the players want. That sounds like the type of thing that leads to a strike. You do realize that without football players there is NO NFL, right?</div> The NFL has a policy. I never said they should change it. I never said they should do what they want. Contracts aren't guaranteed. The players know that when they sign the dotted line. If I were a player I would play out my contract all the time. I would test free agency as much as I can because that's where the real money is today. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>First, I never used the word "child". I did use say "like an adult, who risks his career on every snap and not like a piece of property." No, I don't have to speak to Ted Thompson to know that the he was treating Javon Walker like a piece of property by not talking to him. Since you have so graciously reminded us that the old policy has been thrown out, then why couldn't Ted Thompson speak to Javon Walker with more than a year left on his contract? It apparently was a capricous decision. However, I'm not going to debate this any farther because you attitude is becoming condecending regarding what I know because I've never spoken to Ted Thompson. Do you sit in on Packer personnel meetings? How do you know the Packers planned on taking care of Javon Walker? I really can't stand those "I live here so I know" arguments. I don't care if you deliever Ted Thompson's newspaper, just because a person lives in Green Bay doesn't mean they know anymore about what goes on in that front office than anyone else. Everyone on this board is speculating and offering their opinions. That's great. Is your opinion different than mine? Great. Want to debate? Great. Just don't act like your more of an expert because of some homefield advantage. By the way, I did notice that you didn't bother to answer ANY of my questions directly.</div> Where did I even mention living in the area to have anything to do with this discussion or allowing me to be more knowledgeable? When I said he went to every paper in Wisconsin? I never even stated that I new more of the situations based on where I live. You can read any newspaper article online from where ever you want. I never even stated anything about me living in Green Bay at all in this entire thread. Yet your going to judge me and make me out like that. Yeah right........????... You couldn?t be farther from the truth. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>How do you know the Packers planned on taking care of Javon Walker?</div> I already gave my opinion on that subject once in this thread already. Actually had Walker went to the Packers and handled this like Nick Barnett, Al Harris, Scott Wells, and Donald Driver did, recent history is suggesting that the Packers would've renegotiated Walker's contract and he probably would've got his big pay day as a Packer. The Packers don't have it out for Walker or anything. They just don't believe in holdouts. This is pure speculation but so is stating Walker wouldn?t of gotten paid had he not made threats. Barnett didn?t threaten to hold out. He got paid. So did Al Harris. So did Donald Driver. So did Scott Wells.
I'm not gonna waste my time reading alot of those posts, because I'm sure it's just you guys arguing. Simmer kids, simmer.. Barnett definitely deserved this extension, he's an exceptional linebacker. One of the most under-rated, if you ask me.
Porky, you've busted my chops long before this thread about your being in Green Bay so you know the Packers better. I just can't find the quotes quickly enough and don't feel like spending a lot of time looking for them. I did find a quote in "Walker reports to camp" where you said, "before you start talken like you know what's going on it Green Bay..." but it's too lengthy to quote it here and I'm tired of the subject. Hey, that okay. If you want to pull out the old "have you ever talked to" crap because you don't have any good counter points, that's great. Just be prepared to hear it coming right back.
I'm sure I said something of that in the past. Probably a year or two ago. I never denied that. However I did not bring that into this thread at all. I don?t consider myself perfect. I do not believe I'm a no it all about the Pack and have never stated as much. I am objective and I have an open mind and I am willing to listen to others opinions. I actually use the words in ?my opinion? an awful lot when I make my post rather than the ?undisputedable truth?. I have admitted when I?m wrong before in the past. I was discussing the topic and countering your points whether you accept them or not is your opinion. You are the one that decided to judge me and bring up something from a year ago. Do not act as if I don?t have any quality to add to the discussions to this thread when you brought it up. Porky
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure I said something of that in the past. Probably a year or two ago. I never denied that. However I did not bring that into this thread at all. I don?t consider myself perfect. I do not believe I'm a no it all about the Pack and have never stated as much. I am objective and I have an open mind and I am willing to listen to others opinions. I actually use the words in ?my opinion? an awful lot when I make my post rather than the ?undisputedable truth?. I have admitted when I?m wrong before in the past. I was discussing the topic and countering your points whether you accept them or not is your opinion. You are the one that decided to judge me and bring up something from a year ago. Do not act as if I don?t have any quality to add to the discussions to this thread when you brought it up. Porky</div> I had no problem with this debate until I got the "have you talked to Ted Thompson" deal. That kind of remark is a pet peeve. Of course, I haven't. I was just saying what I would say to Ted Thompson, if I were Javon Walker based on what information that I have. Perhaps I reacted strongly to that remark, but I do get a little tired of people using that type of tactic to deflect from the issue at hand and points that I have made. How about responding to some direct points once in a while? I laid out several questions earlier in this thread and no one has bothered to try and counter them. No, lets just point out that I have never actually talked to Ted Thompson. That really gets us somewhere.
Your statement such as Ted could of at least spoken to Javon is why I wrote that. Perhaps he did. How do you know? That was my point. Instead you over exaggerate the situation and make it out more than it really is. I can?t believe you reacted like that. Bad day at work? I had one sentence that set you off and yet you put this on me. I can't believe that would lead to you to post this........ <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>However, I'm not going to debate this any farther because you attitude is becoming condecending regarding what I know because I've never spoken to Ted Thompson. Do you sit in on Packer personnel meetings? How do you know the Packers planned on taking care of Javon Walker? I really can't stand those "I live here so I know" arguments. I don't care if you deliever Ted Thompson's newspaper, just because a person lives in Green Bay doesn't mean they know anymore about what goes on in that front office than anyone else. Everyone on this board is speculating and offering their opinions. That's great. Is your opinion different than mine? Great. Want to debate? Great. Just don't act like your more of an expert because of some homefield advantage.</div> You specifically turned the thread from about Javon Walker and contracts to about me. By no means am I an innocent bystander but by no means do I have to put up with that crap as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Your statement such as Ted could of at least spoken to Javon is why I wrote that. Perhaps he did. How do you know? That was my point. Instead you over exaggerate the situation and make it out more than it really is. I can?t believe you reacted like that. Bad day at work? I had one sentence that set you off and yet you put this on me. I can't believe that would lead to you to post this........ <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>However, I'm not going to debate this any farther because you attitude is becoming condecending regarding what I know because I've never spoken to Ted Thompson. Do you sit in on Packer personnel meetings? How do you know the Packers planned on taking care of Javon Walker? I really can't stand those "I live here so I know" arguments. I don't care if you deliever Ted Thompson's newspaper, just because a person lives in Green Bay doesn't mean they know anymore about what goes on in that front office than anyone else. Everyone on this board is speculating and offering their opinions. That's great. Is your opinion different than mine? Great. Want to debate? Great. Just don't act like your more of an expert because of some homefield advantage.</div> You specifically turned the thread from about Javon Walker and contracts to about me. By no means am I an innocent bystander but by no means do I have to put up with that crap as well.</div> You can think this is all about you, but you would be wrong. This is about the lack of decent debate on this board. I get tired of making good point after good point and seeing people discredit what I'm saying with what they believe to be witty asides and never once addressing a direct point. I have no problem with people using humor, but if someone makes a point then counter it. I asked several direct questions in that posts which supported my point, but instead I'm addressing the fact that I don't know Ted Thompson. Another thing that irritates me is the lack of support most people have for their arguments. If your going to come in here and say that something is one way, even if I don't agree I, that's cool, but have some support. I love to debate, but I don't want to debate with someone who says the sky is orange and the only support they have is "that's the way it is." Sometimes I exaggerate with the "INDISPUTABLE Truth" but when do I argue a point without having support for my argument. I also hate responding to posts where the other person obviously didn't read my original post. I didn't use the word "child" and don't like having to deal with that term being brought out of nowhere. If you think my "adult/property" analogy was extreme, then debate me on that, but read what I said and debate on the content of my post. What crap are you taking? Before the condesending "did you talk to Ted Thompson" remark, this was a good debate. You may have taken issue with my bringing up Javon Walker right away, but anyone who reads that post can see that you taking issue with Walker and the other Packers who you thought weren't handling business properly. Not a surprise. You have more than one thread about how "classy" athletes handle contracts. I didn't agree and posted my opinion. Strongly? Sure. However, the comments I made were a DIRECT COUNTER to the assertions being made in earlier posts. This isn't personal, Porky. It wouldn't matter who made that comment to me, it would have irritated me because I'm looking for a higher level of debate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>You can think this is all about you, but you would be wrong. This is about the lack of decent debate on this board. I get tired of making good point after good point and seeing people discredit what I'm saying with what they believe to be witty asides and never once addressing a direct point.... Another thing that irritates me is the lack of support most people have for their arguments. If your going to come in here and say that something is one way, even if I don't agree I, that's cool, but have some support</div> Yeah. Shame on the Dwo for wanting to engage in debate and actually learn something about another team. I've said it before and will reiterate; that is what bugs me about this site, the internet, Cable TV news. Who am I kdding? Its symptomatic of society in general these days. Its not about facts & exchange of ideas in a civilized manner but who can yell the loudest and longest, be the most emotional, & then play the victim when they (subjectively) feel the are being mistreated. Its not a generational thing either. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>I have no problem with people using humor, but if someone makes a point then counter it.</div> Whew. Though, I think DD will give me a pass. I try to be factual and engage in civil dialogue. Disclaimer: I refuse to take discuss grown men playing a game for a living too seriously. Sarcasm & humor are my raisons d'etre and coping mechanisms if you can't deal. Oh well.
[quote name='DolfanDale']You can think this is all about you, but you would be wrong. This is about the lack of decent debate on this board. I get tired of making good point after good point and seeing people discredit what I'm saying with what they believe to be witty asides and never once addressing a direct point. I have no problem with people using humor, but if someone makes a point then counter it. I asked several direct questions in that posts which supported my point, but instead I'm addressing the fact that I don't know Ted Thompson.[/quote] I counter all your points. If you think I?m being to witty then don?t respond to my posts. You think your making great points but you need to understand not everyone sees it the way you do. If you truly believe that, then I'm sorry that's ignorant. I think I'm making good points. You obviously don't. You think your making good points. I obviously don't. If you have a point you can make it yourself. I don't have to answer any of your questions. As far as I'm concerned you can get to your point. Not everyone sees through your glasses. I am providing facts and insight to my opinion. You were wrong and outdated when you stated the Packers have rules about contracts. I corrected you with two examples. That's providing support. I provide more than enough support to my arguments. As much as you.. You just don't accept it. I read your post. I thought that's what you meant. If not an adult then he must mean child. I mistook it. Much like you mistook me from did you talk to ted Thompson remark. That had 0 to do with where I live. I already pointed out a paragraph of you using me as your poster boy for whatever problems you have with the forum. I'm sorry but I'm not going to take that crap from anyone and especially someone who points the finger at me for posting something that isn't useful to the debate when they had previous posted this garbage as well.... [quote name='DolfanDale']Screw the Packers front office and their capricous rules.[/quote] Oh am I not worthy?
1. You haven't countered all my points. I asked you to give me some direct answers to some questions and you didn't. Instead, you deflected by pointing out that I don't know Ted Thompson. You don't have to answer my questions, but part of the reason I put them out there is to try and keep focus on the true issue at hand and not condecending remarks. 2. I started post 30, by saying that this wasn't all about you. The point about "witty remarks" wasn't directed at you. If you would have paid attention to the opening sentence of the post, then you would know that. 3. In the course of debate, two different sides can make good points. It doesn't mean that every good point is agreed with and I understand that. However, good points should met with other good points, not buried underneath condesending remarks. 4. Thank you for the Packer rule update. One of the reasons that I brought it up was because you cited it so much in previous debates about the Javon Walker contract issue. I do accept it. Again, the bulk of that paragraph wasn't about you. Perhaps I should have used a red and blue font. 5. I still don't know what crap you are taking about. I didn't like your "do you know Ted Thompson" remark and I let you know it. I'm not making anybody out to be a poster boy for anything. Before I issued my problems with the level of debate in the forums, I pointed out that this isn't all about you. I don't know how to make that clearer. 6. I'm not sure why you put my "screw the Packers front office" quote where you did. Did you take offense to that? I didn't think that anyone from the Packers front office posted in here. 7. Are you worthy? That's a decision that you need to make for yourself. Your capable, but statements like "do you know Ted Thompson" aren't worthy responses to the points that I was making.
[quote name='DolfanDale']1. You haven't countered all my points. I asked you to give me some direct answers to some questions and you didn't. Instead, you deflected by pointing out that I don't know Ted Thompson. You don't have to answer my questions, but part of the reason I put them out there is to try and keep focus on the true issue at hand and not condecending remarks.[/quote] Why do I have to answer your questions. I don't have to take your bait like I'm some mouse. Your a big boy. You can make your own points. I have no desire to answer questions that I feel are non relevant to the discussion. Remember it works both ways. Not just yours. Like I said you don't have to respond to any witty remarks including mine. It is your choice. Such as screw the packers front office.. Then why quote me. Then why use me as an example. I am not your poster boy. You can try to deflect this whatever way you want but I'm not buying into it. Perhaps you should of avoided statements such as However, I'm not going to debate this any farther because you attitude is becoming condecending regarding what I know because I've never spoken to Ted Thompson. Just don't act like your more of an expert because of some homefield advantage. Before we play this whole I didn't mention you by name game. You used it in the same context here to make it clear that I didn't answer your questions. By the way, I did notice that you didn't bother to answer ANY of my questions directly. That paragraph was clearly directed right at me. Remarks like that sure doesn't advance the debate. You break your own guidelines. I am more than worthy. You need to ask yourself if you are following you own what seems like guidelines of high level of debate. If your going to categorize my statement of asking you if you had spoken with ted thompson then you better be sure to throw your own witty remark of screw the packers front office in with it. However aside from whether you were being sarcastic or not you asked me these questions as well... I have no problems with comments like that but since you made it more than clear you do then why on earth would you post that. Isn't that going against everything you stated. That's like saying I hate the movie The Marine yet you go buy it on DVD. It works both ways not just your way.
Whatever, Porky. This started because I made some valid points and you deflected with the condesending "do you know Ted Thompson" comment because you didn't have a decent argument in response. Convolute the argument all you want, that's what started this. Did I ask if you sat in on Packer meetings? Yes, because it was a response to the "Thompson" comment. Did I lay out questions? Yes, because most of the time in this forum, no one can give a direct response. Whatever. I'm not wasting anymore of my time with you in this thread. It's no wonder all the best posters in this forum have left. It's become impossible to have an adult conversation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>Whatever, Porky. This started because I made some valid points and you deflected with the condesending "do you know Ted Thompson" comment because you didn't have a decent argument in response. Convolute the argument all you want, that's what started this. Did I ask if you sat in on Packer meetings? Yes, because it was a response to the "Thompson" comment. Did I lay out questions? Yes, because most of the time in this forum, no one can give a direct response. Whatever. I'm not wasting anymore of my time with you in this thread. It's no wonder all the best posters in this forum have left. It's become impossible to have an adult conversation.</div> You want to have an adult conversation and your playing the who start it game. You tell yourself that. I provided my reasoning to why I believe Walker would of got his contract with the Packers had he not made threats to hold out long before I used that comment. No where did I guarantee it. I used words as in my opinion and pure speculation as well but I provided recent examples that are facts to backup my opinion. It was ignored and you chose to for whatever reason to make much more out of a statement that was directed only to imply that you have no more ?inside? information than myself with your comments.
