Warriors v. Clippers

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Shapecity, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Corey Maggette is having his way with the Warriors early on. Clippers are shooting over 50% and have gone to the line 18 times already.</p>
     
  2. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Monta Ellis has gone on a one man tear and the Warriors have reclaimed the lead! 61-59!</p>

    12 points for Monta on 6-10 shooting.</p>

    Clippers tie right at the half. 61-61</p>
     
  3. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    Somone shoot Pietrus. I could give a flying gold stained shit that he's made his shots, his defense is horrible. I wanna see more of O'Bryant and Biedrins together. I love Azubuike has played so far, and Ellis is looking great.</p>
     
  4. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Yeah, I finally woke up after that stagnant offense in the first. I particularly blame Pietrus because he does not match the tempo that the Warriors are trying to do often times. I'll give two examples: One is he launches these shots where he'd be better served if he could drive the ball and get to the line. But there lies the problem because he doesn't shoot free throws that well or make good decisions with the ball. He slows down the tempo when he misses, turns the ball over, or he doesn't do enough to cause the opposing defense to get back on their heels. He just doesn't have a natural feel to the game and that could partly be coaching. The other is he's just a really dumb guy that never really learns from his mistakes and cannot sense what shots to take in the flow of the offense.</p>

    The other example is when he commits fouls and slows down the tempo because he keeps stopping the game clock with his reach-in bonehead fouls. I know he's got to play bigger now that he's playing the power forward role, but his reach-in fouls have been just plain idiotic and it never stops. He's the same player since his rookie year with super bad habits. His offense this game is not bad, but his defense consists of reaching in and getting the same idiotic fouls he did last game and the games last year. He just ruins the tempo by getting whistled all the time.</p>

    I mean stop me if I'm wrong but he should be the odd man out just like Troy Murphy and Dunleavy were. Barnes is also the other similar guy like Pietrus that just destroys the tempo at times. We need guys that are a little bit smarter in terms of game play if we want to win with small ball.</p>
     
  5. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    Just finished watching the 3rd quarter. Kelenna's dunk was beastly. He's a sure 15 + ppg player this year. Monta didn't get himself involved enough. I trust Belinelli passing more than I do shooting.</p>
     
  6. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Belinelli hasn't been taking that many shots. He can go green light to heat check himself. I agree he's a much better passer than Ellis or Hudson. At least he passes accurately and doesn't telegraph his passes. Somebody should teach Ellis how to two hand pass it like Baron Davis and any other real point guard does. Two hand chest pass, two hand bounce pass, etc..</p>

    I think if we set up Kelenna a little more last game we'd be closer in the point total. He's a real gamer. He should have been a lottery pick if he had stayed in college..</p>
     
  7. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    The Warriors need to push the pace in this game. They've only been able to get out and run in spurts. This Clipper team is one of the slowest in the league, especially when Kaman and Sammy are on the floor.</p>

    Baron needs to realize when his shot is not dropping and start driving to the hoop instead. 1-8 now.</p>

    Monta has also gone cold he's 0-4 in the second half so far.</p>
     
  8. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Biedrins just got roofed by Ruben Patterson that's embarrassing.</p>

    </p>
     
  9. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    F u c ki ng Pietrus! WTF? A corner three when you've just missed two in a row? When Azubuike has 31 frikkin points on 12-17 shooting? Give up Pietrus. Give up.</p>
     
  10. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I wished I knew Richard Hamiliton wasn't going to play. I would have played Azubuike on my fantasy team. 33 points! Dang.</p>

    But what is up with Biedrins and Harrington? I thought they were looking very strong during the offseason. Where did they go? We need Al Harrington to step it up. Playing the Jazz again tomorrow is going to be very, very rough.</p>

    I don't know, maybe just some teams can start off strong like the Lakers and Jazz and others don't, like the Warriors and maybe the Suns? I don't know. This team does not look better than anybody right now.</p>

    </p>

    </p>
     
  11. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Damnit... this game just sucked. The only saving grace was Azubuike and the fact that Troy Hudson did not play and they actuall used Belinelli as a point guard.</p>

    I liked Baron Davis' game for a while but you could tell he was tired and settled into the Baron Davis of 2004-2005 season where he just did not bother to drive or pass as much and just went inside without finishing and then chucked a lot of garbage at the rim from behind the 3 point line... I liked seeing POB in there and guys like Belinelli, but Nelson just insisted on playing smaller guys like Pietrus and Barnes at bigger positions... Those guys are a bunch of rockheads and they're too small and weak... Plus... we're missing free throws again from our small guys... We're not giving Biedrins the ball enough... When your starting point and your starting SG/SF both outrebound your starting power forward and your sixth man combo forward... that's just bad.... really really bad. I don't see what good it is to demand more rebounding from Harrington when he doesn't even start and he doesn't even really resemble a big man player at times. To me... without Sjax and Baron getting rested, we play a bit like the Murphy/Dunleavy lineups of the past...</p>

    What I would give to just play Baron, Ellis, Harrington, Biedrins, POB or something... Who knows, maybe throw Brandan Wright in there once he comes back from injury and gets a few practices in there... All I know is... Barnes/Pietrus... not good... Hudson is not going to do jack for us as we need a backup playmaker not a backup chucker. We already got Ellis in terms of combo guard scoring, why do we need another?</p>

    The positives? I liked seeing Biedrins play inside more. I liked Belinelli at point guard. I really liked seeing Azubuike get more assertive. He's going to be a 16ppg player or better and he'll rebound and get steals. I liked any sighting of POB as long as he gets some chance to do what Biedrins was doing for us. If we don't get some kind of inside scoring solution... we just settle into street ball with bad shots on goal and missed free throws... It's just not fundamental ball and I don't like to see street ball. If I wanna see that stuff I'll go watch and1 mix tapes.</p>

    And plus... how can we be a good small ball team if our best small players just can't hit the free throws... Hopefully game #3 tomorrow is a win and Nelson will not start Pietrus ever. The guy takes the dumbest three when all we need is a two to keep the game close... We'd be better served with a rookie making that mistake than a 4 year veteran acting like a moron.</p>

    </p>

    Oh yeah Biedrins getting swatted by Reuben Patterson was just embarassing... That was right out of Troy Murphy's playbook except Murphy got swatted by a 6'2 guy I think. It's like deja vu nonetheless... At least we can argue that Patterson is a very long and reactive small forward. But still... who is the big man here? They should have never let Biedrins weigh down to 220 lbs. Pathetic. Weigh up and get in that gym. Start pumping up like Dwight Howard and jam that ball down the small guy's throat. Get to 240 or 250 and get on that block. God I hate Nelly ball because it just doesn't win in the long run and it doesn't beat most teams who can run back on us... We gotta get better big man D and get better strength for slow-it-down or driving situations where the player has to give ground and stay on balance.</p>

    Anyway hopefully game 3 goes well tomorrow. I just cringe at small ball that doesn't display inside/outside play and defense. You lose one or the other and its something else, but not basketball.</p>
     
  12. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    How bad does this team miss Stephen Jackson?</p>

    I think the Warriors are lacking his intensity and toughness. Last year Baron seemed to feed of SJax and it translated over to the rest of the players. Not having your best perimeter defender out there and another guy who can create and carry the offensive load when people are flat has hurt the Warriors in their first two games.</p>

    SJax was good at getting the rebound and then starting the breaks, dishing it over to Baron and then having Baron pass it back for a layup.</p>

    Having him in the lineup also pushes Pietrus back to the bench.</p>
     
  13. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    The Warriors couldn't stop the Clips inside and got outrebounded. AB needs help inside. He's not getting it from Pietrus or AL. I can see why you want to see AB and POB Air Monta and CR2.</p>

    How much would it take to get Anderson Varejao?</p>
     
  14. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    This will always be the drawback of "small ball" you're going to get rocked in the paint. The only way the Warriors can neutralize this is by dictating the tempo and that's on Baron. He didn't look right in this game except for a few stretches. Sam Cassell must have had some good chatter and Baron let it get in his ear.</p>

    Watching the contrast in the Clippers when Sam was in the game and when Brevin came in seemed to keep Golden State off balance. It's like batting against the pitcher with the mean Barry Zito curveball (Sam Cassell) and then facing a fast ball pitcher (Brevin Knight) later in the game. The Warriors didn't adjust to either.</p>

    The Warriors actually outrebounded the Clippers in this game 36-28 and had only 10 turnovers. The ugly stat was the 3 point shooting 7-28 and also the FT line disparity where the Clippers cashed in on 31 of 36 and the Warriors only made 19 for 25. The Clippers had a +12 in free throws and that made the difference in a close game.</p>
     
  15. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    How bad does this team miss Stephen Jackson?</p>

    I think the Warriors are lacking his intensity and toughness. Last year Baron seemed to feed of SJax and it translated over to the rest of the players. Not having your best perimeter defender out there and another guy who can create and carry the offensive load when people are flat has hurt the Warriors in their first two games.</p>

    SJax was good at getting the rebound and then starting the breaks, dishing it over to Baron and then having Baron pass it back for a layup.</p>

    Having him in the lineup also pushes Pietrus back to the bench.</p>

    </div></p>

    He's definitely the glue guy of the team and the guy that makes it all work. If we plug him in there and get Harrington more minutes at power forward, then I think we're back to square one like last year. But... we have to do better than Harrington. The guy is a small forward, not a power forward. Pietrus is a shooting guard body not a small forward or a power forward.</p>

    Nelly is just playing these guys all wrong and I knew one day we would just get sick of small ball because it doesn't work against the teams that have strong power forwards or centers. It was a weak collective effort from our guys if our big positions aren't doing anything but committing fouls and taking these bad threes. We're also not having the secondary distributor to take the load off Baron Davis and get the ball moving a lot better. We thought Ellis or one of these other guys could step in but they can't replicate what Sjax does for this team. Right now Baron didn't get any help from his backups to give him more rest and he just got tired and settled for Baron ball which is to start playing street ball and chucking up garbage from the 3 point arc... Classic overdribbling and overgunning the ball garbage.</p>

    If we had
    Baron, Azu, Sjax, Harrington, Biedrins then I think that's similar to last year's roster where at least 4 of the 5 positions could iso up on their guy and find the pass before the lanes start closing and the unecessary dribbling and desperation shots begin.

    Now if we have
    Baron, Ellis, Azu, Pietrus, Biedrins we got a ton of team momentum killers and guys who stop the ball dead. We lose Harrington's basic average of 7 rebounds a game to Pietrus' fouling out early and only coming up with 4 or 5 or so rebounds. We have the fact not much is gained when Pietrus takes mostly threes which are more costly when he misses those threes. I'd rather have Harrington try to find something or move the ball around and see how the defense reacts. It's like playing 4 on 5 ball when you got Pietrus turning the play into a dead ball by firing the ball up or turning the ball over when he decides to go his routine left for a drive at the basket. He goes nothing but left which creates the predictable charge or turnover if the defender knows this guy. He's lucky if he gets away and manages to draw a foul (which he struggles mightily at times to make a foul shot...). He's just a freak liability.</p>

    Then when we got Ellis in there he's this guy that can change the tempo of the game by scoring, but he just doesn't add much to the defense with his size and his lack of team defense skill. He's not a team involved player as much as we'd like and his outside shooting game is just subpar. They play off him on purpose and that hurts his scoring game because the defenses have already taken away his ability to drive in the halfcourt. I really like the fact he is dominant quickness type mismatch, but he's not there yet to give Baron a longer breather. Especially with Ellis' lazy and careless one handed passes. It's the same crap as last year only we don't have Sjax helping Baron out more by taking charge of the offense and playing defense on the other team's best player.</p>

    But yeah, Sjax, I believe is the underrated guy that can keep Baron in check from hoisting and overdribbling because he'll drive and kick and either deliver to Harrington or Baron outside (which means a better 3 point look) or he'll find a cutting Pietrus, Ellis, or Biedrins. He shoots a respectable free throw percentage as well. I was hoping one of the rookies with an all-around game could help us now. For example, who knows if Belinelli can help us in that regard, but it sucks when Belinelli and guys like Azu are slowly learning their role on this team. Azu last game only took a few shots and so did Belinelli. Who else is going to take charge of the offense like a real point? We got a bunch of and1 mix tape players. No defense, very little passing, all about driving and taking pull up shots. I hope we get some big guys in there soon.</p>

    </p>
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    This will always be the drawback of "small ball" you're going to get rocked in the paint. The only way the Warriors can neutralize this is by dictating the tempo and that's on Baron. He didn't look right in this game except for a few stretches. Sam Cassell must have had some good chatter and Baron let it get in his ear.</p>

    Watching the contrast in the Clippers when Sam was in the game and when Brevin came in seemed to keep Golden State off balance. It's like batting against the pitcher with the mean Barry Zito curveball (Sam Cassell) and then facing a fast ball pitcher (Brevin Knight) later in the game. The Warriors didn't adjust to either.</p>

    The Warriors actually outrebounded the Clippers in this game 36-28 and had only 10 turnovers. The ugly stat was the 3 point shooting 7-28 and also the FT line disparity where the Clippers cashed in on 31 of 36 and the Warriors only made 19 for 25. The Clippers had a +12 in free throws and that made the difference in a close game.</p>

    </div></p>

    That's the crux of it though. You give Baron no help because people are playing off Ellis' ability to drive. You can't do that with Sjax or Harrington. You can do it with Pietrus or Ellis because they know Pietrus doesn't do much besides shoot the corner or go left and with Ellis he just pulls up or goes all the way. These guys belong on the bench until they can fix their games or add shot creating/passing ability like Sjax or Baron. Harrington did the best he could, but man he's no big. He just looks big, but he plays small. Just like Dunleavy and Murphy. 6'9 and 6'11 and they play like mice in terms of an inside game. The sad thing is that Dun and Murph, despite their defensive deficiencies could actually rebound the ball better than Harrington because they put a little more effort into it. It becomes very clear that we've hidden such defensive liabilities on this team when we canned Dunleavy and got Sjax for him. Shoot the guy should be an MVP if he comes back and we start seeing immediate results. I mean two games in and I already miss what the guy did last year for us despite his antics in the playoffs where we all cussed him out for being out of control.</p>

    I just don't want to see our starting point guard chucking 1 for 6 or 1 for 9 or whatever he was from downtown like tonight. That's just the lazy Baron ball we dreaded from the Monty years. They weren't even good threes and that's what had me steamed... take good shots... damn... It's like this guy wants to go back to being a sub 40 or 39% shooting player. If he's tired and not lazy, drop the ball to somebody else... geez... no reason to gas him this early in the season.</p>
     
  17. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    You're right the Warriors didn't bring in another playmaker to dispell Baron Davis and give Nelson a player to use when Baron is in streetball mode. A coache's best weapon to keep a player in check is to have someone off the bench who push the guy infront of them on the depth chart. I'm sure Baron has to laugh inside at the prospect of Troy Hudson subbing in for him.</p>

    It's still very early in the season, but I think the Warriors will eventually fix this problem. Nellie is not one to sit around and has no problem making big roster moves during the middle of the year like he did last season. They need Pietrus to string some good games together, build some buzz around him, and then ship him out for a PG.</p>
     
  18. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    You're right the Warriors didn't bring in another playmaker to dispell Baron Davis and give Nelson a player to use when Baron is in streetball mode. A coache's best weapon to keep a player in check is to have someone off the bench who push the guy infront of them on the depth chart. I'm sure Baron has to laugh inside at the prospect of Troy Hudson subbing in for him.</p>

    It's still very early in the season, but I think the Warriors will eventually fix this problem. Nellie is not one to sit around and has no problem making big roster moves during the middle of the year like he did last season. They need Pietrus to string some good games together, build some buzz around him, and then ship him out for a PG.</p>

    </div></p>

    We got Hudson for cheap and it was a good move for 3rd stringer when we got a ballhandling shooting guard (I guess in this case Belinelli or Azu) and some inside presence (Brandon Wright). I think I'm more impatient with Ellis' progress as a passer and the fact his D got a little shaky. Maybe the league is figuring out how to play Ellis just like we talked about last year in not putting too much hype into this guy because defenders will figure out how to take away Ellis' offense.</p>

    I just hope we find something so that Baron isn't going to play 40+ minutes a game, get all frustrated, and then resort to lazy streetball overdribbling and shots that have no chance of going in. I mean 8 for 24 shooting is hideous... He'd better score a little more than 20 points or else...I think he's trying to pad his stats or something because his efficency went to crap and he wasn't deferring to other guys who were scoring more efficiently and not settling for dumb momentum killing Pietrus-like threes (he was 1 for 9). It's like when Baron is playing this selfish, I think he's going for stats or something or he doesn't trust his teammates enough to set them up.</p>

    </p>
     
  19. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    How bad does this team miss Stephen Jackson?</p>

    I think the Warriors are lacking his intensity and toughness. Last year Baron seemed to feed of SJax and it translated over to the rest of the players. Not having your best perimeter defender out there and another guy who can create and carry the offensive load when people are flat has hurt the Warriors in their first two games.</p>

    SJax was good at getting the rebound and then starting the breaks, dishing it over to Baron and then having Baron pass it back for a layup.</p>

    Having him in the lineup also pushes Pietrus back to the bench.</p>

    </div></p>

    </p>

    This is what I was thinking when I saw that the Warriors lost. I'm a fan of Jackson, and it's obvious he's a difference maker for this team. They need him more than some people realize.</p>

    Azuibuke was amazing tho, and that one dunk was crazy.</p>
     
  20. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clif25)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    I wished I knew Richard Hamiliton wasn't going to play. I would have played Azubuike on my fantasy team. 33 points! Dang.</p>

    But what is up with Biedrins and Harrington? I thought they were looking very strong during the offseason. Where did they go? We need Al Harrington to step it up. Playing the Jazz again tomorrow is going to be very, very rough.</p>

    I don't know, maybe just some teams can start off strong like the Lakers and Jazz and others don't, like the Warriors and maybe the Suns? I don't know. This team does not look better than anybody right now.</p>

    </div></p>

    I think Euro Ball in the summer is coming back to haunt Biedrins.</p>
     

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