U.S. Attorney: Illegal Immigrants are not criminals

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Real, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Christie: Immigrants are not criminals
    by Julie O'Connor/The Star-Ledger
    Sunday April 27, 2008, 10:51 PM
    Immigrants and their advocates today found an unlikely ally: the top law enforcement officer in New Jersey.


    Noah Addis/The Star-Ledger
    U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie speaks at First United Methodist Church of Dover today.U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie surprised many at a Dover church public forum when he said sneaking into the United States is not a criminal act.

    "Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime," Christie told more than 60 residents and town officials. "The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime."

    Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act, Christie said.

    "Don't let people make you believe that that's a crime that the U.S. Attorney's Office should be doing something about," he added of entering the country illegally. "It is not."

    After touching on the usual topics of his corruption-busting career and battles against gang violence, Christie fielded questions -- mostly on immigration issues -- from Morris County residents and community leaders in an open forum that at times grew heated.

    The U.S. attorney had been invited by the local chapter of the Latino Leadership Alliance of New Jersey, a statewide group formed to empower Latinos to obtain political, economic and social equity, and hosted by the First United Methodist Church of Dover.

    While Christie told the audience it doesn't take a "genius" to see there's a "serious immigration problem" in this country, he stressed an undocumented immigrant is not a criminal unless that person re-enters the country after being deported.

    Rather, the state's top federal prosecutor called the problem of undocumented immigration "an administrative matter" that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is supposed to address.

    "If there are people out there committing crimes, they should be dealt with," Christie said. "If there are undocumented people running around, then Immigration and Customs Enforcement should do their jobs."

    Read more in Monday's Star-Ledger.</div>

    Link
     
  2. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    At first look I thought he was crazy, and I was a bit disappointed. After all he's done for the state to say that really shook me.

    I can understand what he's saying though. He's saying people in the U.S. Attorney's office has no jurisdiction over illegal immigrants beause that's supposed to be enforced by Customs and Immigration.

    Thing is these "undocumented workers" do get away with things that are criminal. Such as not paying taxes, driving around without a license, etc. etc. So I think this guy got it right...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Posted by RichGuy1 on 04/27/08 at 11:15PM
    How about all these illegals not filing a State or Federal Income Tax Return, while I give up
    40 cents on the dollar! How about the illegals costing the Hospitals so much in charity care they are now being forced to close.</div>
     
  3. SirLaker

    SirLaker BBW MOD

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    It's still illegal. And when you are doing something illegal you can be referred to as a "criminal." Not to mention how many illegals are sitting in our US prisons right now. [​IMG] (over 300,000)
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    "Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act, Christie said. "

    What's the penalty for being undocumented? "Sent home" is a civil penalty, not a criminal one.

    Ever hear of an "illegal" immigrant being on trial for being an "illegal" immigrant? I'm not talking about someone who is accused of other things.
     
  5. AEM

    AEM Gesundheit

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    Funny that a US Attorney would ignore part of the United States Code:

    8 USC • § 1325 (in pertinent part)

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Improper entry by alien


    (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
    misrepresentation and concealment of facts

    Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at
    any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
    (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers
    , or (3)
    attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully
    false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a
    material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be
    fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and,
    for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title
    18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.


    (b) Improper time or place; civil penalties

    Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter)
    the United States at a time or place other than as designated by
    immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of--
    (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
    attempted entry); or
    (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
    an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
    this subsection.

    Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in
    lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.</div>

    Perhaps not enough US Attorneys were fired? [​IMG]
     
  6. Petey

    Petey Super Sized Sexy, The Bulls Fan Killer! Staff Member Administrator

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    Illegal Immigrants steal jobs from citizens, while also inflating the cost of homes and other goods. They help reinforce the cycle of rich getting richer, poor getting poorer.

    Yes, stealing is criminal activity, yes they are in a way criminals.

    -Petey
     
  7. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    The US wastes a lot of money keeping illegal immigrants out of the country. It is quite a complex issue Petey, I don't think it ends just with your comment.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Gordon Hanson is causing quite a stir with his study for the Council on Foreign Relations entitled "The Economic Logic of Illegal Immigration". (Press release, WSJ op-ed, abstract, paper.) Economically speaking, he concludes, there's really very little reason to believe that legal immigration is preferable to illegal immigration ?€“ and illegal immigration has a small but positive net economic effect.

    To the extent that the US spends a lot of money keeping illegal immigrants out of the country, that's likely to damage the economy as a whole. Much better to deal with security concerns in other ways, such as licensing global temp agencies who could fill US jobs with employees from anywhere.

    Clearly, the present system of temporary work visas isn't, well, working ?€“ this year's quota of H-1Bs, for highly-skilled immigrants, "sold out" in a matter of hours. What's more, the number of visas is necessarily larger than the number of legal immigrants, since many legal immigrants end up with three or more temporary visas while working here. Much smarter, says Hanson, to let legal immigrants switch jobs much more easily, and also to give them a path to citizenship.</div>

    http://www.felixsalmon.com/000821.html
     
  8. Petey

    Petey Super Sized Sexy, The Bulls Fan Killer! Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Apr 28 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The US wastes a lot of money keeping illegal immigrants out of the country. It is quite a complex issue Petey, I don't think it ends just with your comment.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Gordon Hanson is causing quite a stir with his study for the Council on Foreign Relations entitled "The Economic Logic of Illegal Immigration". (Press release, WSJ op-ed, abstract, paper.) Economically speaking, he concludes, there's really very little reason to believe that legal immigration is preferable to illegal immigration �€“ and illegal immigration has a small but positive net economic effect.

    To the extent that the US spends a lot of money keeping illegal immigrants out of the country, that's likely to damage the economy as a whole. Much better to deal with security concerns in other ways, such as licensing global temp agencies who could fill US jobs with employees from anywhere.

    Clearly, the present system of temporary work visas isn't, well, working �€“ this year's quota of H-1Bs, for highly-skilled immigrants, "sold out" in a matter of hours. What's more, the number of visas is necessarily larger than the number of legal immigrants, since many legal immigrants end up with three or more temporary visas while working here. Much smarter, says Hanson, to let legal immigrants switch jobs much more easily, and also to give them a path to citizenship.</div>

    http://www.felixsalmon.com/000821.html
    </div>

    Waste of tax payer dollars. Now if tax evasion is a crime, 'wasting' tax dollars should not carry a similar meaning (as how it's criminal)?

    -Petey
     
  9. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    Here is a small distinction I would like to make. Our country has historically given out a ton of welfare money. I'm using that term in its most broad sense, from tax breaks for corporations who meet certain criteria all the way down to people who refuse to work and take checks from the government. On a scale, the undocumented immigrants are not as much of a burden on the economy as a whole as are the people who just flat out take money from our government for flimsy reasons - on a regular basis. The hospital thing is true, but people aren't in the hospital *all the time* week in, week out. People who get checks for nothing or don't have to pay taxes that would otherwise help the local economy are seeing more of a consistant money suckage pound for pound. Migrant workers will work for close to nothing. Agriculture, as an industry, needs the migrant workers to survive in many parts of the southern US. Pushing all those workers up to minimum wage status means we could see drastic changes to the who industry, and ultimatlely they will just move their company to Mexico anyway. It's sort of a catch 22. It wouldn't be the first time that worker wages have driven entire industries out. Steel, cars, manufacturing....all jobs will eventually disappear, and all we will be left with are banking and restaurants lol. How do we fix everything? Raise the minimum wage across the whole planet. It would be really great if the leadership in developing countries wouldn't just sell out their people into virtual slavery so that they can get kickbacks from US companies. Construction workers in India make ~$2 per day to build new, state of the art buildings for US companies relocating there. Multinational corporations are making a killing off them, and have no obligation to give much back.
     
  10. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Apr 28 2008, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>At first look I thought he was crazy, and I was a bit disappointed. After all he's done for the state to say that really shook me.

    I can understand what he's saying though. He's saying people in the U.S. Attorney's office has no jurisdiction over illegal immigrants beause that's supposed to be enforced by Customs and Immigration.

    Thing is these "undocumented workers" do get away with things that are criminal. Such as not paying taxes, driving around without a license, etc. etc. So I think this guy got it right...</div>

    Well, I know documented US citizens who don't work, are not wealthy, and are sucking money from the economy. Guess what, they don't have to pay taxes because they don't have a job!
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AEM @ Apr 28 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Funny that a US Attorney would ignore part of the United States Code:

    8 USC • § 1325 (in pertinent part)

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Improper entry by alien


    (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
    misrepresentation and concealment of facts

    Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at
    any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
    (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers
    , or (3)
    attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully
    false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a
    material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be
    fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and,
    for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title
    18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.


    (b) Improper time or place; civil penalties

    Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter)
    the United States at a time or place other than as designated by
    immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of--
    (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
    attempted entry); or
    (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
    an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
    this subsection.

    Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in
    lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.</div>

    Perhaps not enough US Attorneys were fired? [​IMG]
    </div>


    Main Entry:
    pro·mul·gate Listen to the pronunciation of promulgate Listen to the pronunciation of promulgate
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈprä-məl-ˌgāt; prō-ˈməl-, prə-ˈ, ˈprō-(ˌ)\
    Function:
    transitive verb
    Inflected Form(s):
    pro·mul·gat·ed; pro·mul·gat·ing
    Etymology:
    Latin promulgatus, past participle of promulgare, from pro- forward + -mulgare (probably akin to mulgēre to milk, extract) — more at emulsion
    Date:
    1530

    1: to make (as a doctrine) known by open declaration : proclaim2 a: to make known or public the terms of (a proposed law) b: to put (a law) into action or force
     
  12. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Apr 28 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Apr 28 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The US wastes a lot of money keeping illegal immigrants out of the country. It is quite a complex issue Petey, I don't think it ends just with your comment.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Gordon Hanson is causing quite a stir with his study for the Council on Foreign Relations entitled "The Economic Logic of Illegal Immigration". (Press release, WSJ op-ed, abstract, paper.) Economically speaking, he concludes, there's really very little reason to believe that legal immigration is preferable to illegal immigration �?‚??€œ and illegal immigration has a small but positive net economic effect.

    To the extent that the US spends a lot of money keeping illegal immigrants out of the country, that's likely to damage the economy as a whole. Much better to deal with security concerns in other ways, such as licensing global temp agencies who could fill US jobs with employees from anywhere.

    Clearly, the present system of temporary work visas isn't, well, working �?‚??€œ this year's quota of H-1Bs, for highly-skilled immigrants, "sold out" in a matter of hours. What's more, the number of visas is necessarily larger than the number of legal immigrants, since many legal immigrants end up with three or more temporary visas while working here. Much smarter, says Hanson, to let legal immigrants switch jobs much more easily, and also to give them a path to citizenship.</div>

    http://www.felixsalmon.com/000821.html
    </div>

    Waste of tax payer dollars. Now if tax evasion is a crime, 'wasting' tax dollars should not carry a similar meaning (as how it's criminal)?

    -Petey
    </div>

    I don't really care what's criminal or not, I was merely pointing out how complex the issue can be. Not to mention that some illegal immigrants come from pretty messed up countries.
     
  13. Petey

    Petey Super Sized Sexy, The Bulls Fan Killer! Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Apr 28 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't really care what's criminal or not, I was merely pointing out how complex the issue can be. Not to mention that some illegal immigrants come from pretty messed up countries.</div>

    I gotcha. I think there are complex issues on both sides of the argument. My parents are immigrants. I've had friends who are illegal immigrants. I have nothing against them, as they don't really effect me or my situation.

    While I'm sure everyone knows that some people run away from dangerous or very poor life situations, that hurts people whom are legal citizens. If you are starting up a business, and have the choice to pay someone half or less than that of someone else would would you take? You create a cheaper product. Then your competitors have to keep up. Creating a cycle. And in turn creating a poor life standard for citizens.

    I recognize it's hard for the US to dictate the rates of pay outside the country, but working out a better salary structure (factoring illegal immigrants) in our own country would be a huge step in improving the life standards in this country.

    -Petey
     
  14. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    If workers were making even close to the same wages that they make regardless of what country it is, then we would not be talking about this at all. If I'm getting paid $2 per day in a developing country, do you think I give a rats ass what "burden" I am going to place on the US economy? They could issue citizenship a wee bit faster, perhaps we wouldn't be facing such a tidal wave of illegal immigration? I'm sure 99.9999999999% of the illegals who are coming across are not terrorists, and that's where I think the stalling comes from.

    <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">We should hire a million more people to process visas. What do you think of that? Decrease the years of waiting that it takes to get citizenship for people who aren't out to screw us, they just want to <u>be</u> us and would be happy to pay our taxes as long as they can come over without any hassle.</span>
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    rotr - they already are us, and have been since before Texas and California were states [​IMG]
     
  16. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    No no, lets not them all come at once, good lord we would lose our political clout if that happened, they're all heathens!
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    LOL

    They're native Americans, by definition.
     
  18. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Apr 28 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>LOL

    They're native Americans, by definition.</div>

    right. We've got people so high on their horse, that they are calling for a Berlin Wall on the borders. Why not do as I had suggested and process them as citizens faster? If its costing us so damn much to deal with them as illegals, then we could spend that money toward hiring people to get the <u>right ones</u> in, and keep the criminals out? My goodness, once we get 100,000 new legal workers on the payrolls, imagine how much we could tax the crap out of them to pay for their right to live here? WE WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY DOING THIS.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    My view is that they don't have to be citizens.

    The only point of building a wall is to keep people from crossing in places where they end up wandering in the desert and dying of dehydration. And to get them to cross where they can be counted.
     
  20. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Apr 28 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Illegal Immigrants steal jobs from citizens, while also inflating the cost of homes and other goods. They help reinforce the cycle of rich getting richer, poor getting poorer.

    Yes, stealing is criminal activity, yes they are in a way criminals.

    -Petey</div>

    Exactly what I think.


    In a sense they're not criminal, to the extent that they haven't killed someone, or have done something to be criminals, but being that they're "illegally" in the country, automatically gives them that name.


    I was an immigrant once (9 years ago), legal one [​IMG], and thats the way to come to this country.
     

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