ROY comments on our offense - is there a problem here?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Blazinaway, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. Chuck Taylor

    Chuck Taylor BATUUUM SHAKKA LAKKA!

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    If he's gonna have the ball all the time, lets just make him our point guard. Batum can guard the quick PGs, then you stick Wesley at the 2 like a poster above said. If Miller is out there without the ball, it's a waste when it comes to defense and spreading the floor. Plus, he would be a great spark-plug off the bench assuming he doesn't turn into Mr. Grumpy Pants.
     
  2. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    It's just a question of who gets the responsibility of bringing the ball up the court. That's the big hole.

    After the Qyntel Woods at PG experiment a few years ago, I'm extremely leery of both Batum or Wesley handling it. (I remember when that experiment failed with Qyntel, it seemed to begin the death spiral of his career. Before then he was a "promising young athlete with huge upside" and after that he seemed to turn into "headcase cancer" overnight. I know a lot of it also had to do with his multiple off-court issues, but it still makes me leery of placing so much responsibility on a really young guy who isn't even a point guard. I'd like to see both these guys incrementally build on their success, rather than roll the dice on forcing them into a massive change in role.)

    As for Roy bring the ball up, the guy can't stay healthy as it is. I don't think it's realistic to expect him to do it for a full season.

    But like I said, it's definitely something McMillan needs to determine fairly early in the season, barring a trade.
     
  3. Cake

    Cake Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    I'm not too worried about Batum or Matthews ending up like Qyntel Woods, but I get your point. But Batum brought the ball up for France quite a bit and Matthews has been doing it pretty well for us in preseason and did it some for Utah last year as well. I think either or both or all three could handle the job in a rotation.
     
  4. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    Me too. But I don't know anything about any Quick article. I heard Roy on the radio and he essentially said, among other things, and I'm paraphrasing slightly, that, "I don't give a shit what Andre wants, it doesn't matter what Andre wants, I want the ball and I'm going to get it. Andre will just have to deal with it."

    I so wish we could trade Roy for Williams or Paul. Yesterday. He may be our best player, but he's not 'good enough' to win a championship all by himself. Unless he learns that it takes a 'superstar' working with a 'team' to win a championship, this team is going nowhere.
     
  5. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

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    I am saying if you are building a team a certain way, them commit to building the team that way so it has it's maximum chance for success.

    By the way you are incorrect. Dwayne Wade won a ring with an iso offense. The Detroit Pistons won a championship with an ISO offense.
     
  6. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Yes. As perturbed as I've been at Roy, we aren't getting Williams or Paul for him. The next best option is what you've suggested. Actually, the next best option would be to trade Miller altogether, but I doubt that happens either, not with this 'brain trust.' So, the third best option it is!

    :cheers:
     
  7. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    heh. What? Shaq was dominating at the time. I'll concede if a team has two dominating, all-pro, generational-type, iso-capable players, it can work. Not with one good-to-star level player.

    No. That Pistons team had so much movement and play off the ball. How do you think Rip was the leading scorer without being able to play 1-on-1?
     
  8. Cake

    Cake Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    How about we don't inaccurately paraphrase at all:

    Do you think the offense will return to like it was last year?

    "Last year I thought it was different from 2 years before, just with adding 'Dre. I think we're going to continue some of that from last year but try to get back maybe from a couple of years ago, before 'Dre came, where I get the ball a little bit more. I want the basketball a lot more."

    --

    What's the problem here? The best and most creative offensive player on the team wants the ball more? I don't consider that a problem.

    As for hypothetical trades that won't happen...sure...it's be great to get a better player on our team, but that's not likely to happen. We're not going to get a top 3 point guard, so we'll have to settle for a top 3 shooting guard. Either way, the best player on the team needs the ball in his hands a lot if we're going to be successful.
     
  9. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    Agreed.

    There is nothing wrong with our best player needing to be the focus of the offense, and being the most highly utilized player. But Roy seems to just want to run that damn 1-4 set all game, and it doesn't work anymore. This team can't even run an effective pick-and-roll with Roy. That is absurd.
     
  10. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    The problem with that, is that because of Nate's offense, Roy getting the ball "a lot more" means nothing but ISO and 1-4 sets. Teams figured it out. There could be an offense where Roy got the ball a lot more, without requiring everybody else to stand around on the 3pt line.
     
  11. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    Sorry, I wasn't taking notes. I was driving. And I wasn't paraphrasing the part you quoted. I was paraphrasing what Roy said after he said that. I thought I paraphrased it pretty accurately. He literally said Andre will just have to deal with it, among other things. The words I heard and the vocal intonation I perceived is what I wrote. Maybe you heard it differently. That's cool.

    I agree with you that our best player is our best option on offense. That should be obvious. I'm not crazy about Roy's attitude though, this year or last year, on a number of counts. Or his maturity. At first I thought he should not make those statements publicly. But then I realized Brandon Roy has never had a conversation with Andre Miller, so I guess this is the only way he knows how to communicate with him?

    And yes, I do think we'll run the same offense as last year. With healthy players, I hope.

    :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  12. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    I agree. Since we aren't getting Williams or Paul for Roy, I think it would best if we could trade Miller and run Roy with Matthews and Batum. But I'm not holding my breath on any trades.
     
  13. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    I'm fine with Roy getting the ball a lot. I'm fine with him getting the ball more than he has in the past. What I'm not necessarily fine with is an attitude of "To make this team successful, just give me the ball and let me figure it out." No player has been terribly successful that way, not even Michael Jordan. I realize that Roy is willing to pass the ball, and he's not a selfish scorer. However, demanding he be the focal point all the time I think would be detrimental, because it limits what the team can do.

    What it comes down to is that I don't think Roy is a point guard. I don't think he can function like a point guard and be the initiator every time down the floor. In some ways, his hybrid nature is a strength...but it's a weakness also, if he can't execute/accept roles, at times, that off guards generally take on, like being off the ball weapons. The fact of the matter is that Roy is not a transcendent player. He's Portland's best player since Drexler and fans associate him with the team's turnaround, but he's not a generational type of player (from an NBA standpoint). He isn't so good that he should be able to dictate what he does and everyone falls into line around that. Being the "best player" isn't qualification enough; I can only imagine the howls of anger if Zach Randolph had made comments like this as Portland's best player at one point.

    Even Jordan adapted his game. It's not too much to ask Roy to do the same. The tone that some people seem to be taking ("How dare you question Roy, he's our best player") is overmuch, in my opinion. He's an excellent player, but it's still his responsibility to adapt his game to fit the personnel around him, just as it's the responsibility of every other player. The coaching staff should want the ball in his hands a ton, but everyone, including Roy, should be open-minded as to how the ball is put in his hands.
     
  14. MrSelfDestruct

    MrSelfDestruct Louie, Louie, Louie

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    Excellent post.

    [/thread]
     
  15. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    I don't think that he has to be the PG. But what it does allow you to do, is have a PG who is more about scoring and less about assist and still be effective, because Brandon picks up some of the assist load. What I think is in order for Roy to be effective, you should team with him a player who can get his own shot and get it fast. Because that guard is going to be the recipient of a lot of flaming bag passes when Roy's play breaks down. Right now when Roy passes it out of a situation where he gets bogged down, Miller cannot hit the 3, and he cannot take a big outside if switched. You don't need a guy who can run the whole team at PG why Roy is in. You need a guy who can score, and score fast when the shit hits the fan.
     
  16. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    Good post, Minstrel, but I suspect that Roy and the coaching staff ARE open-minded as to how he gets the ball. I think this whole issue is the typical thing we see around here where some player says something and then people here interpret it how they want in order to push whatever opinion or agenda they have about the team. I think it would be a good idea to wait and actually see a few games before reaching any conclusions about Roy's attitude. I want our best player to be a bit selfish, but not at the expense of the team. I'm of the opinion that Brandon has no other agenda than wanting to win.
     
  17. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

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    Every offense has movement off the ball. I remember a lot of Billups ISO waiting for Hamilton to come off screens, Hamilton post ups, Wallace post ups, and Tayshaun Prince either hitting 3's or receiving the ball on the wing for a 1 on 1 iso. The amount of points scored per game was low, because they let their defense do the talking.
     
  18. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    It seems like a strange strategy to assume that our offensive sets will have "shit hit the fan" so often that we need to bring in players to accommodate that.
     
  19. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    I think there are several player on roster who could work out ok in that spot if given a run to make it work. I think both Rudy and Mathews fit that bill. Both of them are capable scorers, and both usually average a few assist per game. Both are also capable of getting up a shot in a hurry, and both can hit the 3.
     
  20. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

    And if it happens so often (getting up a shot in a hurry and off of "flaming bag passes"), doesn't that point to a serious flaw in the offensive scheme?
     

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