What REALLY Grinds My Gears....

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Lakers' started by lakerman24, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. lakerman24

    lakerman24 Member

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    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/01/14/race-to-mvp-week-12/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

    They put LeBron at #2 because of what teams are NOT doing? "The LeBron-less Cavs lose by 55 to the defending champs. That's why LeBron is the MVP."
    BS. People need to stop riding this guys lil balls.

    But glad to see Kobe slowly climbing the ranks. Although I want to see Derrick Rose win MVP (if Dirk wins it, it's a travesty that he's won 2 before Kobe wins 2), it's good to see the NBA recognize a man who WILLS his team to victory. Some of our wins are just because Kobe refuses to lose.
     
  2. ivey

    ivey Member

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    Steve Nash already has two while Kobe has one so that award lost credibility years ago for me
     
  3. Sex Panther

    Sex Panther works every time.

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    1) Seriously? If the Cavaliers win 20 games this season (which they'll be hovering around by season's end) that would mean that Lebron was a 40-win difference. That's a damn great barometer as to how valuable he is. Besides, his numbers this season are probably the best in the league, so I have no idea what the beef is at having him #2. Don't let your hate for the guy cloud your judgement.

    2) And using MVP awards as a measuring stick for greatness is stupid. Steve Nash has 2 because the seasons he won MVP, Kobe's teams were below 50 wins whereas his were bordering 60. He turned that team around. I personally thought Shaq deserved the other one, but Nash was definitely worthy of being a top 3 contender both years he won it. And lastly, why would it be a "travesty" for guys like Dirk to win 2 before Kobe? It doesn't make him the better player. At this point in his career, Kobe lowers his minutes and has adjusted his game to doing less with more. Besides, Kobe's finished top 5 5-6 times. That's damn impressive.

    Just because players win MVP over the ones you wanted, it doesn't make the award a sham, nor does it 'lose credibility'. In fact, the latter just perpetuates that very notion with stupid talk.
     
  4. kobe23

    kobe23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    The MVP is kinda like a very inexact science, which sometimes make it seem like a joke.

    Before the criteria was you have to clearly be the best player on your team, having a superstar alongside you would be detrimental (let along 2), while leading your team to one of the best records in the league.

    And now, they're even considering LBJ AND Wade to win it as co-mvps. LOL
     
    Sex Panther likes this.
  5. Moo2K4

    Moo2K4 NBA West Producer

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    The main reason why I have a problem with LeBron winning an MVP (aside from despising him), is that he's playing along two other superstars, and when you play along other established superstars, your life becomes easier because the defense can't simply focus on you.

    Right now, my MVP is Derrick Rose. He's having a fantastic season and he's carrying a team that's had injuries to two huge components of their team in Noah and Boozer.
     
  6. lakerman24

    lakerman24 Member

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    Lets give it to Raymond Felton. The Bobcats aren't doing too well this year, and the Knicks have improved.

    With LeBron, Cleveland lost more than just a player. They lost their dignity and pride. Hell, some of them wanted to retire. He spat in the faces of Cleveland, and their egos (or lack thereof) is a HUGE reason why they are on the bottom of the league.
     
  7. Sex Panther

    Sex Panther works every time.

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    I'd go Derrick Rose too, but that Bulls team needs to win 55 games (which I think they could if Rose ran the floor better every now and then). I'd then go Lebron #2 and Dirk #3.

    As to Lebron, stats aside (I don't think it truly fully encapsulates a player's value and worth to the team), he runs that team and its very very obvious. Watch Heat games, and they hop to Lebron's step. He dictates that offense and he anchors that defense. DWade's life has gotten a lot easier since Lebron arrived. Remember, Lebron's led his team to multiple 60 win seasons (with what is now obvious, a very good defensive, but offensively-handicapped team) whereas DWade hasn't. Numbers aside.

    And I refuse to call Bosh a superstar.

    There are only 7 to 9 in this league: Kobe, Lebron, DWade, DHoward, Chris Paul, Dirk, and maybe Deron/Carmelo/Derrick Rose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  8. Sex Panther

    Sex Panther works every time.

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    Also, I think when dealing with Kobe we can't look at a normal NBA player's trajectory (even with high-schoolers like Lebron and KG) to superstardom. He came into this league behind all stars like Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones. The Lakers also had a huge superstar like Shaq at the helms getting the majority of touches, often preventing Kobe from 'getting his', as much as he hassled that assent. He then proceeded to take over as the #2 (and eventually #1) to a team clearly built around Shaq (when guys like Lebron and KG had built around them from day 1) which really is a roadblock to his development and production. He had to wait about 4-5 years past his rookie season to start getting some players who fit with him (and even then, not so much), but of course he was already in his athletic prime (which was about an 8.5/10 --very very athletic). Lebron and KG used those 4-5 years to develop their games so that when they reached their athletic primes, their game /skill sets/understanding of the game were at the same level.

    Thats why it's hard to place Kobe on a scale with other superstars, they were the #1 who had been developed to be that way. Kobe wasn't; Though he was so good they had no choice.

    FWIW, I do believe Kobe should have won the MVP twice (05-06 and 06-07) because those teams were absolute garbage. Lamar was clearly not a #2, Caron's role was a little hazy which stunted his game, Smush had no right being in the league, the bench was horrendous, we had Kwame Brown starting, and Mitch did a horrible job building a team around Kobe. Moreover, in his prime, i'd put him in the top 5 with Jordan, Lebron, Shaq and Wilt which is crazy company. Sounds like a buyout, but I'm really not a Kobe hater. Far from it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  9. ivey

    ivey Member

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    If Kobe would have gone to another team in 05-06, would that Lakers team win one game? As we're looking back the lineup was straight AWFUL.

    On the topic, Derrick Rose seems like a good choice to me, he's playing good ball and Chicago is only one win behind Miami
     
  10. kobe23

    kobe23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    You mentioned deron and rose but failed to include durant? hehe

    Sad to say, but i think kobe's going downhill from that list.
     
  11. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Oh my God! No way the guy with the best numbers in the NBA gets taken off the Cavs, and they're losing? Get the fuck out of here that's impossible.

    It is pathetic that you're trying to argue for an out of prime Kobe.

    And here I thought, Kobe shooting a low percentage in the Finals meant he didn't will his team to victory? More like got carried?

    And by the way, The Bobcats lost Tyson Chandler who has the Mavericks playing D. I wouldn't expect you to notice that though.


    The Cavs have declined by the biggest margin in the history of the league. And guess what, this is what they played like last year with LeBron off the court, Basketball-reference captured that in a stat too. They're smarter than you. Your BS excuse doesn't hold up, there's a reason Kobe can not shoot his best and win.

    You wanted to trade Pau Gasol for Noah.

    basketball-reference.com

    And this is before 2010-2011.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  12. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Yeah not a hater either ;), like I said I think Kobe is around that kind of player you mentioned.

    06-07 was a weird year, not sure who deserved that one. 07-08 onwards it's pretty easy to see Kobe can't compete with James. Kobe in the 08 Finals also got a pass for some reason, who knows.

    Moo it seems to me, the Heat sharing the ball made them have a tough time in the first 17-19 games.

    So this makes absolutely no sense, because they're not having career seasons or anything close to it. They're just so good and Kobe's old now so he's not a legitimate candidate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  13. lakerman24

    lakerman24 Member

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    Wow, man. Haven't gotten laid in a while? Got to come on here and talk down to people in a FORUM?

    Yeah, back in the day I thought a Pau for Noah trade would have been good......that was a LONG time ago, when our interior defense wasn't looking very good and our lack of toughness in the interior was evident night in and night out.

    As for the Felton comment, please... Just my attempt at sarcasm, I wasn't looking for correctness.

    NEVER said that LeBron wasn't one of the best players in the league, I said how I think it's ridiculous that Dirk was #1, gets injured and is dropped, while LBJ gets injured and goes UP because his team isn't winning without him and a team. Also, the team he was on LAST YEAR that didn't just lose a great player but also lost their PRIDE and DIGNITY signifies that he should go up in the MVP rankings? Hell no.

    HK, I don't know what your deal is, man. You need to chill out a little bit.
     
  14. ivey

    ivey Member

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    my advanced stats still say that last 3 years - 2>0
     
  15. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Uh-huh, yeah I've seen worse I wasn't that harsh. I don't need that to make my argument either.

    Hmm that's funny, I've been doing my best to avoid you so no I'm doing just fine. Yeah that's right love, I'm saying what the rules allow around here. You should Bitch at Denny Crane then.

    I'll help you out, if you make a moronic comparison it only makes my side look better, it wasn't very effective sarcasm.

    Back in the day, you mean like last year? Lol ok. You've been exposed by other Laker fans for making bad trade threads, and other dubious propositions. Drop the discontent, it doesn't make sense.

    You're right the Lakers are 2>0, Kobe wasn't hot though. Tough.

    Never at any point did I say, "the Lakers weren't champions". :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  16. lakerman24

    lakerman24 Member

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    OH WAIT I suddenly remember! You're the used-to-be-Laker-fan-and-then-LeBron-goes-to-Miami-and-suddenly-you-become-a-Heat-fan-guy.

    How's it going, Mr. Sell-Out?

    And then you back up your change in team favorite with ' advanced stats?' HAHA, I don't think you know what it is to be a true fan.

    Sorry to break it to you, but when it's all said and down the legacy of Kobe Bryant is PROBABLY going to be more impressive than that of LeBron James, no matter what 'advanced stats' say.

    You seem to have a lot of unreasonable anger in you, so let me be a friend and give you a little life lesson. Chicks hate it, guys don't appreciate it, so MAYBE you want to figure a thing or two out, bro.

    OK I'm done talking to you.
     
  17. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    First, you're not a girl so I'm not afraid of being real with you. Unless you have some announcement you want to make? :) I'll say whatever I want to you, even if you're a girl because you're not in Miami so I could not give a fuck.


    Kobe has 2 Finals MVPs in 15 seasons shooting badly, that's not impressive. Shaq is impressive.

    By the way, normal stupid stats say Kobe choked so drop it. It has nothing to do with "advanced", you're thick headed. And LeBron is going to win more Finals MVPs than Kobe too. The Lakers have a great championship team with a inefficient scorer. 40% isn't that good.

    The most intelligent Laker Fan is Sex Panther, and he's from Yale and a lawyer. He should tutor you in everything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  18. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Oh and when Kobe misses games we've already seen the Lakers winning percentage. It has nothing to do with "dignity", his teams always win many more games without his help.

    Here's why they're riding my balls more than yours: Because he shoots like trash more often than other stars. And he doesn't rebound or pass like other stars.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  19. lakerman24

    lakerman24 Member

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    Talk to me when he does. Until then, you're just proving me right.
    HAHA funny you should mention intelligence of a Yale lawyer and compare that to intelligence as a Laker fan (not a knock on you, Sex Panther).

    Lets see if LeBron shoots better than Kobe in the Finals against the top defense in the league at age 31. Until then, your all SPECULATION, I'm talking about the right now, and RIGHT NOW, LeBron doesn't have shit on Kobe.

    I'm an undergrad at Penn, for what that's worth, so I'm not so sure I need any tutoring.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  20. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    There is no SPECULATION, the Lakers win more without Kobe and Kobe shoots garbage in every single Finals.

    When he was 25 he shot 38% against the Pistons, and hogged the Ball from Shaq. Then graduated to 41% shooting against the 08 Celtics, without passing or rebounding like other stars. In the three peat he was worse than Allen Iverson, so I don't have to prove much.

    Yes keep complimenting Sex Panther, the Laker fan that owned you. I have no problem with that. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011

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