GS just leapfrogged Houston in the standings

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by AlleyOop, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

    Warriors now 1 up on Houston going into the break...Phoenix is 2 ahead, and Memphis and Utah are both 4 ahead for a tie in the 8th spot... then, you have Denver at 5 ahead at the 7th spot, and then you have NO and Portland at both 5.5 ahead for the 6th and 5th spots...

    All of those teams are catch-able... NO has lost 3 straight, and I'm not seeing much in the way of dominance from them. Utah has lost a whopping 4 straight, and a mid-season coaching change is usually only good for a losing team, not one that's trying to build consistency... especially when the change came in the form of one of the most storied coaches in league history, and your star player, having major conflict...

    Memphis just found out they are without Rudy Gay for at least 4 weeks for an injury, and even after he comes back it will take some time to rehab...

    Portland was supposed to get Roy back, but then that's up in the air, and what will his return mean? They may feel pressured to play him, even if he's hobbled and a shade of his former self... They might be better off without him (the current version of him) but if he comes back, you can't just sit him...

    Denver looks pretty discombobulated, GS handled them, and half of their players are in trade rumors right now, and with Melo wanting to leave, that's not the kind of "unity" and chemistry that will carry a PO run...

    The only team ahead of the Warriors, up to the 6th spot, that is legit to me right now is Phoenix. They just own the Warriors, and it seems like whoever you put with Nash, he'll make them better...

    I made a thread recently "Playoffs=Nope." We all remember that recent stretch... brain-dead defense. No toughness. No rebounding. No grittiness.

    Well, things have changed... I was hesitant to believe it, but it's been consistent... Since the New Year, Gs has started to build a new identity, and after handling NO and Utah... this looks for real...

    It doesn't mean they're title contenders.... but gritty team-defense and toughness, along with the kind of scoring they are capable of... that's legit. Defense is what will get you into the POs, and it seems like Gs has a new defensive personality. I like Vlad Rad... I like Charlie Bell even... I love Udoh... the defense is changing... Monta will always have his shortcomings there, but the team is showing it collectively...

    I mean, that 8th spot is awful flexible right now... another month stretch of tough defense, and GS could be right there...
     
  2. Clif10

    Clif10 Member

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    Yes the team looks good when they have bench production and they are not getting murdered on the glass. Those are two things that have improved as of late, and some defense.

    I think the roster is one that should be decent on the boards. I am not sure about what we can expect from the bench offensively though. I am hoping Reggie Williams stays hot and Lin finds his way into the rotation. That should help for any playoff run.

    I am not sure if the last wins against the Hornets and Jazz mean the team is making progress because I believe they beat those teams multiple times already. I think the Warriors play well against teams that don't shoot the ball exceptionally well. But I think the good shooting teams give the Warriors the most trouble, like the Suns. The Warriors did well against the Thunder, but the Thunder still shot a really high percentage. The warriors edged them out because of the extra fg attempts from causing turnovers, but still did not effectively contest shots. I remember in the Magic game we were letting them have shooting practice from beyond the arc that led to a killing on the Warriors. The more recent Suns game was also filled with uncontested shots.

    But ultimately I will agree with you. The playoffs look closer now due to what has been going on around the West as you explained very well. Plus the advancement of Udoh is huge. I almost want to say Udoh is better than Lee. But the team is better with both of them. I think the team can now secure the glass and paint better with the committee of bigs on this roster that are getting recognized. If they keep up getting the defensive board and some bench production then I think playoffs are in reach. Oh yeah, and let's hope for continued health.
     
  3. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I think if we do improve the roster we've got a good shot. We're not that far behind and Utah is on the downswing, Denver may be after the trade deadline. Our defense and bench contributions are improving. We're certainly not out of it but we also have a lot of road games down the stretch. I wouldn't expect them to make a push as constructed but if they add a big piece I think its likely and if they add a small upgrade or two we'll probably be in the mix.
     
  4. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Good question though, after last night, I began thinking to myself, for the first time, "is it wise to break it up?" Obviously if a great deal comes along, so be it... But even Radmonovic, for instance... to me he's always been cannon fodder for a trade (exp contract)... but now, with the way he's playing, and the influence he seems to have on the younger players... I'm not so sure. In fact, I can't believe it, but I'm starting to think GS should even bring him back next year, if reasonable. I mean, he seems to have gotten his head right ( or at least somewhat more right). 6'10" guy who can shoot and make plays like a SG/SF, and yet shows some toughness inside and on defense...

    So, GS seems to suddenly -- out of the blue! -- have a good thing going...

    It would be tasty to add a nice piece to the roster, yes, but I think it's a delicate situation now... I'm still willing to move Monta for a guy like Iggy+equalizer, but even Monta, now, is such an important part of the mixture... the rest of the team looks up to him, and he just obliterated the Jazz last night.

    My main gripe about him is his brain-dead defense, but he looked at least decent last night, so...

    I dunno. Who do you think is "movable" given the current "good vibes" going on in Warrior land? Is chemistry even a factor, or should we actively try to trade whoever to get a better piece? Would you part with Dorell Wright? Monta Ellis? Radmonovic? Those are three guys who should be attractive to other teams, for various reasons...

    As far as the Nene deal, that's a big "change" to the current roster... Monta will most likely have to go... do you still do that?
     
  5. bayareafan85

    bayareafan85 JBB JustBBall Member

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    From the All-Star weekend in Los Angeles -- The Warriors reached an agreement with Denver to acquire power forward Troy Murphy on Friday, according to a team source, but the deal includes a couple of big contingencies.

    You see, Murphy is not a member of the Nuggets. He has to first be traded to Denver in a multi-player, multi-pick deal with New Jersey that includes Carmelo Anthony. Contingency No. 2: Anthony has to sign an extension with New Jersey for the initial deal to be completed.

    The Warriors source said Murphy would be dealt to Golden State for Denver's choice of two expiring contracts from a list that includes Dan Gadzuric, Vladimir Radmanovic and Brandan Wright. General manager Larry Riley was in league meetings, so he was unavailable for comment.

    The Warriors are hoping to get immediate help in rebounding and could possibly talk Murphy into signing for a hometown discount with his former team in the offseason.

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?entry_id=83416#ixzz1EMevh1Py
     
  6. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    Huh?

    The Murph deal (that I was in favor of assuming he plays C and backup PF) is smoke.

    "Riley denied that the team had a deal in place to acquire Murphy, saying, "He has already been here."

    But Riley said he has been working with New Jersey, among a number of other teams, on deals that would exchange the Warriors' expiring contracts for a player of substance inside or for future draft picks."

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?entry_id=83416#ixzz1EMjc5OUq
     
  7. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    Murph would have been a rental anyway, although it actually would have cleared more cap room for us while Denver would save some money on luxury tax by accepting the smaller contracts. But yeah, I'm sure it was just discussed briefly since they were already talking about Nene or other options. I know Riley's trying his best to get return on the expiring contracts, but I expect no major trades.
     
  8. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    I won't get into Udoh being better than Lee, but is Udoh better than Greg Monroe? I wanted Greg Monroe and he's made the rookie game while Udoh didn't. Monroe is doing well in the rooks-soph game, but DeMarcus Cousins is doing better. Steph Curry just started breaking out of his funk and is playing in crunch time. Rooks are winning though!

    Rooks won! DeMarcus Cousins should be MVP. Curry came back from horrible first half.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  9. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    The Murph deal could have included a #1 pick coming to the W's. Their own probably.

    It looks like the Knicks will get Carmelo. I just heard they've improved their deal to include Gallo. That's a lot to give up -- Felton, Chandler, Gallo, Curry (expiring) and a #1 pick.

    Can the Ws still make a deal with New Jersey?
     
  10. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Why give all that talent and deplete your roster when hes all yours in a few months? If Billups is coming back then it makes up for losing Felton if I'm NYK but still you've gotta consider waiting it out if it depletes your roster anyway.
     
  11. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    The short answer is it's a tough call, it's too early. Monroe is playing a major cog in for the Pistons while Udoh is barely getting into the rotation finally.

    The long answer, is that if you took a snapshot of right now, as a pro-Udoh guy, I have to admit that Greg Monroe looks better than Udoh. Back on draft day, I felt that Udoh was a better defender, and almost equal offensively. Monroe was hyped as the best big man passer, but I kind of missed watching his own scoring production. In the NBA, Monroe's role has been to take the ball and shoot it if he's close; he's got less than 1 assist per game, but 75% of his shots are inside, and he makes about 60% of them. Monroe also draws fouls about 20% of the time (though he makes only about half, like your traditional big man, too). Udoh only takes about 40% shots inside, although he makes a better percentage of them at 66%, but his foul-draw rate is about 10%. Overall, Monroe's defense is awful sometimes, but he rebounds and scores at an above-average level. Maybe a stretch, but like Emeka Okafor without the defense, right now?

    Of course, Udoh's lack of offensive production could be just that he doesn't get the ball inside enough and he might be capable of producing, but we just don't know it for sure yet. As noted, he makes the same percentage of shots as Monroe does, he just gets way less looks. Udoh rarely (never?) gets blocked while Monroe gets blocked at a below-average rate, but it's still worse than Udoh. Monroe is starting and has many plays run for him, with many of his close shots coming on assists. Udoh rarely has plays run for him, and isn't always playing on the block due to the spacing. Udoh does have a good hook shot but as noted, he takes a lot of jumpers for a big man, and I think that's partly the fault of the Warriors' system. Udoh is equally adept at rebounding as Monroe, and a much, much better blocker.

    Long run, Monroe is also 2+ years younger, is clearly more of a center than Udoh is. Udoh is much more comfortable at the PF position.

    One interesting metric is that Udoh's net points per 100 possessions on the floor is way better than Monroe's (+5.8 for Udoh, -0.6 for Monroe), but you have to take into account the "Monta factor": Monroe plays big minutes for a bad team. Udoh has better net offense and net defense numbers. But Udoh has wayyyyyy less minutes, so like all metrics, it's just food for thought rather than backing for a good argument.
     
  12. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    The Warriors could probably make a deal with NJ, but NJ doesn't have much incentive, they probably will save more by buying Murphy out than by trading him for slightly less costly contracts.
     
  13. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Murphy is a pointless acquisition. This team needs defense and toughness... not a flat-footed stat-padder. He's already had his run in GS, and that was enough, IMO.

    I think Radmonovic would be more valuable to the team, straight up.

    Also, trading Wright would be foolish at the moment unless you get top dollar. His salary is so low, and it's expiring anyway. He's young, crazy ceiling, and to me, finally seems to be rounding into form. Played well for GS the last couple of showings. Looks stronger. There's nothing to lose with giving this kid another shot. Why move him for a mediocre trade...

    Does Robert Rowell still have his hands in things? Someone tell him to go away please.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  14. Clif10

    Clif10 Member

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    I don't know much about Greg Monroe. So I cannot say.

    But in certain situations I believe Udoh is much more valuable than Lee. Lee sometimes is like Jamison in that he may bring some offense and rebounding but his defense is so bad that he is hurting the team. Watching Udoh defensively is a treat. The way he defended Al Jefferson on the iso in the high post in the first half of the last game was NBA all defense level. He does a good job blocking and effecting shots. I like the way he at least tries to box out for rebounds too. If he can let Biedrins play more loose without as much worry about fouling, then that can be huge. I think Udoh may be like a taller Marcus Camby.

    I think a clever rotation of using a committee of bigs (kind of like Portland in the last couple of years) should be sufficient for this team against the league.
     
  15. Clif10

    Clif10 Member

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    Looks like the 7th and 8th spots in the West have become a bit more competitive with the departures of Sloan from Utah and Anthony/Billups from Denver. This is exciting for the Warriors. They need to tie up the loose edges and play good basketball here on out.
     
  16. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    Looks like the Celts might swoop in and shatter one of my dreams I had my figers crossed for a Nene/Battier offseason. That would've been enough for me to go out and split some season tickets for the first time since Webber's rookie year.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  17. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    We've only got 7 or 8 mils of cap room so no way we could sign both and we'd be insanely lucky to even get one of them.

    Sounds like Nene isn't available for trade though. Battier is on the block but what could the Celts even offer for him? I would think Houston wants some pieces to build around. So then what could we offer for Battier? I think they'd want Udoh and DW or something along those lines which is a bit of a steep price.
     
  18. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    I just read that Denver wants to re-sign Nene to an extension...
     
  19. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    There would have to be other moves including S&Ts. And I'd be willing to part with Udoh & Monta to be honest if it meant that I could end up with those 2. You could move in and get a serviceable Raja Bell type of 2 guard and have one hell of a team. But alas, it was just a dream.
     

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