What have you done for me lately? Where does Thibodeau rank?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by transplant, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    For the last couple seasons, Thibodeau has been generally considered as being one of the top 3 head coaches in the NBA along with Gregg Popovich (consensus #1) and the Clippers' Doc Rivers.

    Some felt that the Thunder's Scott Brooks (COY 2009-10) and the Pacers' Frank Vogel also deserved to be in the discussion. Based on their teams' success this season, Steve Kerr (Golden State), Mike Budenholzer (Atlanta), Terry Stotts (Portland), Kevin McHale (Houston) and Rick Carlisle (Dallas) also can claim a place at the table.

    For me, Popovich has stood the test of time and won multiple titles while Rivers has won a title and has had success in several different venues. They are the clear #1 and #2. There's a dropoff after that.

    Carlisle has a ring as a head coach and has had a lot of success for two different franchises over an extended period of time. He's my #3.

    Brooks is my #4. Besides the COY, he's taken a team to the Finals and has been at it for 7 seasons now.

    I have Thibodeau at #5, but can understand those who believe that Vogel's record is comparable.

    Of the rest, I see Budenholzer as the new Thibodeau, a long-time assistant who has taken a lightly-regarded squad to the best record in the NBA. It wouldn't surprise me if some iconic Atlanta Hawks message board poster isn't claiming that "Budenhozer can win with girls." Kerr on the other hand is the anti-Thibodeau, having paid no dues as an assistant and displaying a demeanor that's as laid back as Thibodeau's is intense. If either of these guys wins the title this season, it'll be tough to keep them out of the top 5.

    So how do you rank 'em?
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I have Thibs at #2.

    Those other guys aren't winning with girls. All of them have really good organizations that have drafted well, and even tanked for picks (OKC).

    I used to think more highly of Dykstra though I was also a bit dubious. He did win with awesome talent, but he's not now. He achieved more with the Heat than Collins did with Jordan et al.
     
  3. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Just to be clear, is Popovich #1?

    Also, who's Dykstra?
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Spoelstra. Stupid autocorrect.

    Yes, pops is big foam finger #1.
     
  5. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Dykstra for Spoelstra? You've go like the Sacco and Vanzetti of autocorrects.:)
     
  6. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Can't quite get a handle with Thibs. Past couple of seasons he's had the team clicking and did more than expected with less. Now the team seems to have more on paper but sometimes seems lackluster and underperforms. Maybe they are trying to avoid the burned out squad playoff syndrome that's plagued the team but if they don't go into the playoffs on the same page and spitting fire I fear they will be in for a rude awakening.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It is what it is. You didn't mention him, fwiw.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You mentioned Rivers in the OP.

    His bench has prominent former head coaches on it (Lawrence Frank, Mike Woodson). He wasn't a winner until KG and Allen joined Pierce in Boston. He may be underachieving in LA. Or he might be head coach in name only.
     
  9. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Rivers and Thibodeau are definitely different types, Rivers being high in leadership and Thibodeau high in Xs/Os. This said, Rivers is highly-regarded because of postseason accomplishments (a winning record in the playoffs, 2 Finals appearances and a championship).
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Winning with girls is all about leadership. The players sure seemed to drink the grit wins championship kool-aid.
     
  11. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Thibs is towards the top. Solid in Xs and Os and also knows how to manage pro NBA players. He usually get the most out of his guys. Even this year you can say that in many cases.... Gasol is now a starter on the Eastern Conference all-star team. There usually isn't much in-fighting and pettiness on a Thibs team.

    He has not won the big one yet though as a head coach. No denying that.
     
  12. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Those teams had more than grit but Thibs -- and we all know this -- got every last drop of skill and effort that squad had.

    This year, it seems, not as much.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We didn't have much talent last season. We didn't win 50 games. We didn't advance in the playoffs. Yet it was obvious they wouldn't, and they were trying 110% for 48 minutes even for game 82.

    That's Thibs.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He won the big one as bench coach though.
     
  15. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yeah, and Jim Boylen has 3 rings.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't think Boylan is the good example. Tex winter might be the better one.
     
  17. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Do you think Coach Pop would have this team winning a title this season?

    Coach Spo? How are the Heat doing without Lebron?

    How is Doc doing in LA? Think he would have the these Bulls #1 in the East this season?

    Those guys have won the big one.

    This is a dysfunctional roster in many ways. I think Thibs is once again doing as good a job as possible given the personal and the situation.
     
  18. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I happen to agree with you.

    A head coach in the NBA only wins big if he has winning talent AND that talent buys into what the head coach is doing. This combination doesn't guarantee that you win a championship, it's more like the ante to genuinely contend.

    IMO, lots of NBA head coaches, past and present, were/are good enough at their craft to win a title. Popovich is the undisputed #1 active NBA head coach because he has been at it a long time and has 5 rings. Postseason success over long periods of time is the only criteria for judging NBA head coaches that makes sense to me.
     

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