What do you guys think? http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...shman-jeter-yankees-captain-article-1.2138710
If Cashman continues acquisitions in the manner that he has there won't be a Yankee Player superlative enough to qualify for the position. At present there is no one on the team that could fill the role in a manner akin to Jeter, Mattingly, Thurman ect.
Yeah, I read that article....now that Jeter is no longer there it does become an interesting question. I tend to agree you don't necessarily need to have one of your players being designated as a "Captain" and I definitely don't see it, nor should it happen -imo- until maybe 5-10(?) years from now when most of Jeter's contemporaries are also gone. Those Yankee teams of the 1950s never had a "captain" but everyone knew who the leaders or "main guy" was. Who knows, maybe in a few years some other kid from the system will show up with great talent, poise and all that good stuff and spearhead another WS championship or two.
IMO it would have to be someone in the fold of a Jeter & honestly I don't see that happening anytime soon.
In the fold of a Jeter....that kinda narrows things down. I don't believe a "new" captain necessarily needs to be an all time great historical player.
And it should narrow it down. I mean since the days of Ruth the Yankees have pretty much had only well established players who currently have there #s or plaques in monument park. Yes there have been a hand full of exceptions, most notably the weak hitting 1st year Yankee Everett Scott who took over for Babe Ruth in 1922 after Ruth threw dirt into an umpires face & then went into the stands to confront a heckler. Ruth was not only fined & suspended but was also stripped of his captaincy after only 2 months. Why the title was given to Scott instead of a better & more valuable player like Bob Meusel or even a Yankee veteran & 3 time 20 game winner Bob Shawkey is anyone's guess. Then you have Nettles being captain for the 82 & 83 seasons, and Randolph/Guidry being co-captains from 86-88. But lets be honest had it not been for Munson's death none of these guys would have been captain IMHO. Between Scott & Gehrig there was 10 years. And between Gehrig & Munson there was 37 years. Hell even between Mattingly & Jeter there was 8 years. So I really don't see the spot being filled anytime soon.
Outstanding points Rick. The position of a Captain/Skipper is NOT a requirement for any Yankee Team by no means. Especially when their is no true leader, who looks like they'll be around, and remain atop this current mess of Yanx folk-lore, someone who can play at the top of their game, for the a minimum of 15 years, or more. There is no more a good Captain Candidate, and won't be for years to come, and right now, he may, (the next Capt); is still probably playing High School.....for anyone to think simply having a Capt. or just any ol' Capt. has cobwebs in b/t the brains, and heart. A day will come in due time, when a young Yank will step up, make an indelible mark, and when the time is right, it may happen, it may not. A Captain's position is not for show, not mandatory, not even required, yet is good to have, ONLY with each and all proper elements in place......Nothing short of a Jeteresque/Mattingly/Munson/Gehrig-esque Icnonic die hard diamond king player, and role model, to not just kids, but other MLB players, esp a Yanx Team....
I hear what you're saying about iconic players..but as much as I loved Thurman and Donnie....and I do consider them kinda borderline HOFers.....they were NOT all time great iconic players. They were certainly outstanding homegrown hardnosed all-star caliber fan favorites but the point in (Yankee) time when they "arrived" on the scene also had something to do with it.
I know I'm in the minority here by saying this but I happen to agree with you about Munson, he was given the title right after his MVP season which IMO was really not all that special. And I thought he was a little over rated as he proved in his final 2 seasons. He was an excellent defensive catcher but as a hitter he was average. But if championship were won on heart I want 25 Thurmon Munsons. Mattingly for 6 years 1984-1989 averaged 27 HRs, 114 RBI & a 326 BA. To go along with an average of 203 hits & a .371 OBP he was during those years IMO one of the 10 best players in ALL of baseball.
Munson was a LEADER, by example and had no problem grabbing some shuck and jiver by the stacking swivel and letting them know what for. I admired the hell out of Thurman because when he was in the lineup you knew all was OK. Had the same admiration for Nettles and found Donnie Baseball best Yankee 1st baseman I saw play.
That's what I mean when I say Iconic, with the Heart and Drive, that is 2nd to none on the field. Both were great Field Generals, left impressions on my players in their time, as well as many other Coaches, who admired both for as much. Regardless of stats, I'll never forget hearing a Joe Torre Broadcast on radio of the Yanx vs Halos in Anaheim. Joe had Sparky Anderson in the press box on mic. Sparky stated: "I cannot think of a better role model for kids, in this game right now, than Mattingly. He waits til the crowds are gone, just before ALL the lights are turned out, then comes back out and has the Coach hit him 1 to 200 Hard Hit Grounders, AFTER the Game". "His Work Ethic is 2nd to none, in this era".... not my words, the great HOF Skipper Sparky's.....!!!
As for Munson, when I said the particular point in Yankee history had "something" also to do with with him being appointed Captain- the Yankees were coming off a long dry spell (for them) in winning a WS and the Yankees to their credit recognized the special player he was. They obviously made the right decision. And as I've said in a previous post- I actually think Munson was UNDRERRATED outside of the NY fan base. To the rest of "outsiders" he was the "gritty Yankee catcher" who was the Captain of the team and died tragically in a plane crash. He was more than that - for perspective, his career CS% success rate was 44%, higher than the great John Bench. Munson's .292 career BA (for a catcher) has been (IMO) under-appreciated and he was a .357 post season batter (129 AB) and never batted lower than .339 in any post season series (6), with a career WS batting avg of .373 (3 WS). Munson was beginning to slow down towards the end but his 10-11 year career as a catcher and leader speaks for itself. He wasn't a power hitter but managed to knock in 100 runs three times where Carlton Fisk did it twice in over 20 years (3412 more ABs) and his next three highest totals were 88, 86 and 71. Fisk batted 23 pts lower (career) and had a CS% success rate of 34%. You won't find a single pitcher (IMO) who will say Munson wasn't an excellent receiver to pitch to....you'd be hard pressed to find a better all around package to be your team's captain. Finally - just for good measure, I would NEVER trade Munson for Fisk.
Yes I said he was an excellent defender & that he was a leader who played with a lot of heart. You say he was beginning to slow down towards the end like he was 40 years old. He was only 31 in his last full season (1978) 6/71/297. Unfortunately we would never know if he could have regained what he once had. I'd like to think he would have. And like I said, You couldn't go wrong with a team full of Munsons. For your viewing, http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/munsoth01.shtml
____________________________________________ His knees body starting barking, doesn't diminish what he was for his 10-11 year career. He probably would've played a couple more years, little more DH duty/1b.... and he would still have been a good hitter. I believe he played 1b in his last game. Having a .292 career avg after 10 years isn't an abberation. His catching, playing career and what he meant/brought to the team doesn't lose any shine to it just because he wasn't one of those guys who hung around 17 or so years with the last 3-4 years being mediocre at best.
I also think Munson was losing some of his drive for the game. The reason he got into flying and got his plane is because he wanted to be home more.
Honestly I think being around Martin & especially an asshole like Reggie took some of the fun out of the game for him.
Despite the Yankees being swept in the 1976 World Series Munson had a great Series. When asked about the play of Munson Sparky Anderson commented "yeah, he (Munson) was a good player, could play in the National League, but how can you compare any man to Johnny Bench. My thought was Fuck You Sparky and Bench as well. Big Red Machine my ass, there were many better Yankee teams out there with World Series Runs. And fuck Joe Morgan as well. Billy Martin loved Munson, praised him to the skies in his book #1. Those '76 to '78 Yankee Teams had some real characters that could kick some butt on the diamond. I don't see that in 2015.
