So, Where Will Kobe Rank All Time When he retires

Discussion in 'NBA General' started by iversonfan268, Feb 4, 2007.

  1. KobeBryant_24

    KobeBryant_24 BBW Elite Member

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    Putting Iverson and Duncan ahead of Kobe shows stupidity in you....
     
  2. ASUFan22

    ASUFan22 BBW Global Mod Team

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Feb 5 2007, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Putting Iverson and Duncan ahead of Kobe shows stupidity in you....</div>Duncan is better all-time, however, I would not put Iverson above him, ever..
     
  3. ballerman2112

    ballerman2112 BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KobeBryant_24 @ Feb 5 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Putting Iverson and Duncan ahead of Kobe shows stupidity in you....</div>Duncan has had an overall better career than him. Having Kobe Bryant ahead of him RIGHT NOW shows the stupidity in you. If Kobe can win a couple more rings, maybe even one, he MIGHT be above Timmy. But just look at all Tim has accomplished. 3 rings (two with a VERY fair squad), MVP of all of the series, 2 Time MVP (back to back), rookie of the year, 1st team All NBA every year except last year, 1st and 2nd team all defense numerous amounts of times, led his team to by far the best record out of any sport since he joined the NBA, and so much more. His numbers dont pop out you like some others, but if he was more selfish, and he played more, I know he could get 25 and 12.
     
  4. Illosophee

    Illosophee BBW Elite Member

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    <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">To me, it doesn't matter whether or not Kobe wins another title. I believe he'll be considered top 10 by many, many NBA analysts in the future. I don't consider him top 10 right now. If he were to retire at this very moment, I'd give him a top 15-20 spot.. Nothing more, nothing less. However, when his career is through and done, I believe Kobe Bryant will be top 10 without a doubt.</span>
     
  5. ballerman2112

    ballerman2112 BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Illosophee @ Feb 5 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">To me, it doesn't matter whether or not Kobe wins another title. I believe he'll be considered top 10 by many, many NBA analysts in the future. I don't consider him top 10 right now. If he were to retire at this very moment, I'd give him a top 15-20 spot.. Nothing more, nothing less. However, when his career is through and done, I believe Kobe Bryant will be top 10 without a doubt.</span></div>See, that is where I disagree with you. If Kobe doesn't win a ring where he is the leader, first option, and best player, people will just say that he only won it because of Shaq. Now, I believe that Shaq definitely couldnt have done it without Kobe in the playoffs, but not all people think that way. We all know that Kobe sure as hell couldnt have done it without Shaq. The Lakers were terrible when Shaq went down.But, I made a list earlier, and unless, Kobe gets another ring, there are for sure 7-8 guys that are better, and 5 players that are most likely to be considered better.For Sure (in no order)Michael JordanHakeem OlojuwanWilt ChamberlainLarry BirdMagic JohnsonShaquille O'nealKareem Abdur JamarKarl MaloneBill RussellMost likely IMOJohn Stockton Tim DuncanOscar RobertsonCharles Barkleyand there are others....There are alot of great players over the time, and Kobe is going to have to give another ring to convince alot of people.Charles Barkley
     
  6. SirLaker

    SirLaker BBW MOD

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChuckTheD @ Feb 4 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No more titles-Top 15One more titles-Top 5-102-3 more titles-Top 2-34-5 more titles-GOAT</div>Agreed. But in my book he is top 10 with or without another ring.
     
  7. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 BBW Elite Member

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    No way should Charles Barkley or Stockton be over Kobe. Outside of rebounding Kobe does everything better than Charles and has 3 rings, and Kobe has the rings and overall play over Stockton.As for TD, I'd put him slightly over Kobe just for his accomplishments, but as a player and talent Kobe is the better of the 2. Put an MVP award and maybe a Finals MVP award into Kobe's showcase and he is just as accomplished as Tim.
     
  8. Illosophee

    Illosophee BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Feb 5 2007, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Charles Barkleyand there are others....There are alot of great players over the time, and Kobe is going to have to give another ring to convince alot of people.Charles Barkley</div><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">Charles Barkley never won a championship ring...</span>
     
  9. Wade3

    Wade3 BBW Elite Member

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    Top 15 If he keeps up his playing and the Lakers don't get anywhere. Top 10 if the Lakers win some playoffs games and go fairly deep.
     
  10. ballerman2112

    ballerman2112 BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Illosophee @ Feb 5 2007, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">Charles Barkley never won a championship ring...</span></div>Thanks for pointing that out.... :happy0144: Im not retarted dude.And it doesn't even matter IMO. The guy put up 22 points per game, 12 rebounds per game, 4 assists per game, and 1.5 steals per game over his career. He got an MVP award which Kobe has never gotten, he was a very good defender, and I love the fact that he is only 6 foot 6. He may not be as skilled as Kobe was, and he may not even be better, but he isnt far off.And as for John Stockton, he leads the entire NBA in assists, he is very high on the list in steals (if I remember correctly), his team was always good in teh NBA but just never seemed to get over the hump, and was also a very good defensive point guard. Kobe had the most dominant player in the history of the NBA on his team...That is why he got the rings. You take Shaq away from that team and add the 2nd best player in the league to that team, they dont win the rings (anybody besides Duncan).
     
  11. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Feb 5 2007, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And as for John Stockton, he leads the entire NBA in assists, he is very high on the list in steals (if I remember correctly), his team was always good in teh NBA but just never seemed to get over the hump, and was also a very good defensive point guard. Kobe had the most dominant player in the history of the NBA on his team...That is why he got the rings. You take Shaq away from that team and add the 2nd best player in the league to that team, they dont win the rings (anybody besides Duncan).</div>Kobe was not in his prime when the Lakers were at their best. With that in mind, replace Shaq with KG and I think they would have won a ring, especially in 2001. Stockton was in his prime when his teams reached the Finals, so it isn't really fair to make up all these what if's.Kobe is far and away the best scorer of our era, ability to lock down the opponent's best offensive player (something Stockton couldn't do, despite being a great defensive PG), a very good playmaker, most clutch player of our era, and has turned into a great leader. Stockton is one of the greatest PG's of all time (behind Magic, O and possibly Kidd), but Kobe is the BEST player of our era and just overall is a better player than Stockton.
     
  12. Serge

    Serge BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 4 2007, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Top 10. This guy is so unbelievably rare a talent, not to mention his heart and killer instinct give him another edge over any player in this millennium. He is the best scorer since MJ, most clutch player since MJ/Reggie, has won 3 championships and tons of playoff accomplishments, great playmaker, good rebounder, and is the only superstar swingman in the league with the ability to lock you down on defense.And just to think, with all that he has done in his career....3 rings, 81pt game, 62 through 3 quarters, 35PPG in a season, months of 40PPG or more, 9 game streak of 40pts or more, I believe 2nd on list of most game winners (don't quote me on that), all defensive first teams......he is only 28 years old. At that same age MJ won his 2nd championship. Kobe still has lots of room to improve even more and to further his accomplishments and legacy.</div>Good rebounder? Umm he averages over his carrer 5.2 rebounds per game. Iverson for god sake averages 3.9 rebounds per game over his carrer. I mean he does not even average 2 more rebounds pers game then AI and he is 6-8 inches taller.Right now he is the best in the league along side Lebron.He is my 2-3 fav player in the league, but I don't think he is top 20 now. I don't think he will be better then 15 even if he wins another title.I think also some people overrate Kobe as much as like Kobe. He is the best in the league now. But top 15 even with another title no way he should end up better then 15.
     
  13. Serge

    Serge BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tmgbball15 @ Feb 5 2007, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Unliek many of you, I do not see Kobe as a top 10 talent. Whiel he is one of the best talenst of all times, and already a top 50 player I do not see him above many of the alltime greats. While he is oen of the most physically gifted athletes the game has seen he lacks teh understanding that greats such as Jerry West and Larry Bird had, who were not the most athletic gusy but yet where still able to get the job done. When Koeb retires I see him as a top 15-20 player of all time.1. MJ2. Wilt3. Magic4. Bird5. Malone6. Russell7. Robertson8. Kareem9. Olojuwan10. Shaq11. Jerry West12. West Unseld13. Allen Iverson14. Tim Duncan15. Bob COusey16. Elgion Baylor17. Pistol Pete18. tmac, lol jk. Kobe</div>I would not put Kobe above AI, but they should be close unlike some think.And Duncan ah not sure above Kobe, or not.
     
  14. melo

    melo Magic

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    He is already a top 20 player. If he wins another 3-4 rings and picks up a couple of mvp's, Top 5.
     
  15. Opal

    Opal Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 6 2007, 05:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is already a top 20 player. If he wins another 3-4 rings and picks up a couple of mvp's, Top 5.</div>If he does that, he's the greatest ever I think.Right now he is top 15, if he can show he can win one ring without Shaq, he is maybe top 10. 2 more is definitely top 10, maybe top 5. 3-4, like I said, is the greatest ever. It would be a good debate for him #1 at least.
     
  16. GSWarriors23

    GSWarriors23 BBW Member

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    when kobe retires he'll be one of the all time greats....how he will compare to the others? im not sure and I really dont wanna get into that. IMO he will retire as one of the 10 greatest ever.
     
  17. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Serge @ Feb 6 2007, 04:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Good rebounder? Umm he averages over his carrer 5.2 rebounds per game. Iverson for god sake averages 3.9 rebounds per game over his carrer. I mean he does not even average 2 more rebounds pers game then AI and he is 6-8 inches taller.Right now he is the best in the league along side Lebron.He is my 2-3 fav player in the league, but I don't think he is top 20 now. I don't think he will be better then 15 even if he wins another title.I think also some people overrate Kobe as much as like Kobe. He is the best in the league now. But top 15 even with another title no way he should end up better then 15.</div>Remember Kobe rode the bench very early in his career, averaging about 20MPG in first 2 seasons and averaging only around 3RPG. But he has had seasons of over 6RPG, and one season where he was .1RPG away from 7RPG. He is a good rebounder.LeBron is no way in HELL alongside Kobe as best player in the league. I don't even put Bron in top 2. Kobe and MJ are the 2 best scorers of the past 20-25 years. Kobe is the only great swingman who can SHUT DOWN the other team's opposing star. He is the most clutch player of this era. He has 3 rings, countless all star appearences and all-NBA first teams, been on all-defensive team, etc... Not to mention he has matured into a fantastic leader, a very good playmaker and good rebounder.Outside of his MVP award, there is not one reason why I'd even CONSIDER AI being over Kobe on the all-time list. That's just being biased.
     
  18. SunnyD

    SunnyD Sexiest Poster Alive (Yessir)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tmgbball15 @ Feb 5 2007, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. MJ2. Wilt3. Magic4. Bird5. Malone6. Russell7. Robertson8. Kareem9. Olojuwan10. Shaq11. Jerry West12. West Unseld13. Allen Iverson14. Tim Duncan15. Bob COusey16. Elgion Baylor17. Pistol Pete18. tmac, lol jk. Kobe</div>Pretty bad list in my opinion.Karl Malone is not 5th. Maybe 10th or 11th.Wes Unseld isn't even top 25. Pistol Pete is overrated by you.No mention of Moses Malone?Kobe is above AI, Cousy, Unseld, and Pistol Pete.
     
  19. KMart?

    KMart? BBW Elite Member

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    Let me first assert that basketball statistics are some of the most misleading in all of sports. Turnovers are bad, but they signify a desire to make things happen. Player A might pick up 25 shots per game, but might do it in a slow paced offense where shots are hard to come by. Player B might get up 28 shots per game, but might do so in an offense where shots fly up left and right. As Nitro so insightfully pointed out, many of Kobe Bryant's statistics are misleading because he was firmly cemented on the Laker bench for a year or two.But trying to look past several misleading statistics on Kobe's account, here we have one of the 25 best players ever to play the game. We all know my gripes against Kobe Bryant. You've got the horrid shot selection. You've got the overzealous shot selection in offenses generally slowed down to a bore. You've got inconsistent defense that is overrated by moments of glory. And you've got his hideous selection of game attire (Kobe is responsible for the tights look, the worst look in sports).(The last statement was a joke by the way. You'll find I like to do that a ton.)But I'd be stupid if I looked past what Kobe can do. You don't say Shaq sucks because he can't shoot from 22 feet, you say Shaq is great because he can shoot flawlessly from 8 feet. And that there is what Kobe is great at, scoring from anywhere, 8 feet or 22.There are several types of scorers:Scorer A - A Scorer who slashesScorer B - A Scorer who slashes and shootsScorer C - A scorer who shootsKobe isn't in any of these categories. He's in a category almost non-existent, Category D. He can do all of the above. He can get to the hoop with the best of them, not just relying on speed but on a shockingly incredible dribbling ability. He can shoot in any form, fadeaway, pull-up, open shot, floater. And not only can he shoot when needed, he can shoot at anytime he wants. This guy is the best mid-range shooter in the NBA, and is a good enough from three to shoot with the best of them (Ray Allen's lower three point percentage this year, I'm looking at you). Kobe is a shooter, and a pure one at that when desired.And his clutch ability is well documented. We're talking about a guy who plays best defensively late in game (the reason his ability is touted so highly) and a guy who is approaching Michael Jordan in total game-winning shots. We're talking about one of the 20 best clutch players of all time. Some of you guys might say: "Why so low"? Well, in the past 3 years Kobe has made just 25% of his clutch attempts, and up until his third NBA Final appearance was shooting under 40% from the field. Kobe is a also a good rebounder (although don't dare use rebounding as a determining factor) and when he wants to, he can pass. Actually, in my 5 years of obsessive basketball viewing, this season is the best Kobe has played all-around, due in no small part to his unselfishness. 5.5 APG that are perfectly warranted and help the team tremendously. I saw TMac's 03 season in full, I saw LeBron last year, but this year Kobe is doing whatever he needs to win - and in doing so has played better than any of them.Basically, Kobe is a player misinterpreted. Degrading Kobe's game due to personality and off-cour issues is stupid - don't go there. On the court, the guy is one of the 10 best scorers ever, the guy is one of the best clutch players ever, and in the best year or so he's proven to be one of the smartest and most "valuable" players ever. As with Allen Iverson, the only way for Kobe to go is up.
     
  20. Illosophee

    Illosophee BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart? @ Feb 7 2007, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There are several types of scorers:Scorer A - A Scorer who slashesScorer B - A Scorer who slashes and shootsScorer C - A scorer who shootsKobe isn't in any of these categories. He's in a category almost non-existent, Category D. He can do all of the above.</div><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">So, he's Scorer B, right? If he can do all of the above, that means Kobe can slash and shoot... Umm... Why would he be in a new category when "slashing and shooting" is already in the Scorer B category?</span>
     

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