<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 11 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Read the article from a week or 2 back where Wade said himself that he is not vocal but is a leader by example. He does all of what you just listed that Dirk does, except the big difference is that he is playing for a team that can win in the olympics.</div>No, it's really not the same. Dirk has been playing on the German team for years (2001?). He has had very few breaks since he started with the Mavs. Wade has not been playing with the US team for years, and assuredly that team needs much less from him since they have LeBron, Melo, Battier, whomever. You are just reenforcing what I said about him not having a chance. Dirk did it because he wanted to make his game better and because he is loyal to Germany, not because he wanted to sell more shoes.Once again, Dirk isn't playing for a sub-.500 team. His teammates aren't sitting out because they're overweight. It's really not entirely Wade's fault, and I can empathize about it all. He is getting a lot of criticism that he doesn't necessarily deserve, but trying to project that criticism on Dirk is just asinine.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Feb 12 2007, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, it's really not the same. Dirk has been playing on the German team for years (2001?). He has had very few breaks since he started with the Mavs. Wade has not been playing with the US team for years, and assuredly that team needs much less from him since they have LeBron, Melo, Battier, whomever. You are just reenforcing what I said about him not having a chance. Dirk did it because he wanted to make his game better and because he is loyal to Germany, not because he wanted to sell more shoes.</div>Since arriving tin the league, Wade has played for the US team 2 of the last 3 summers, moreso than anyone outside of Bron and Melo players. Without his game vs Argentina the US might not have won the bronze medal, and he had big games that team needed. All foreign players are far more loyal to their home country team, it's a totally different program than here in the USA. Here its a bunch of collected and scraped together stars, over there they been playing together for many years and it's something they just do every year. But saying Wade did it just to sell shoes is just unfair.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Once again, Dirk isn't playing for a sub-.500 team. His teammates aren't sitting out because they're overweight. It's really not entirely Wade's fault, and I can empathize about it all. He is getting a lot of criticism that he doesn't necessarily deserve, but trying to project that criticism on Dirk is just asinine.</div>But he isn't putting that criticism on Dirk. I think his frustration was towards not getting respect him and his team deserved from the Finals rather than anyone questioning his leadership now (which he answered about a week back claiming he is not a motivator). What triggered it? I don't know, could have been something the interviewer brought up, could have been a recent quote no one talked about...whatever the case may be, it's over and done with and I'm sure they are cool with each other.
I am not sure how saying that a team is scraped up supports Wade being a leader. I don't think you really have any point to your argument except to try to disagree with me.I'm sorry, Dwyane coming out of nowhere with this garbage because a reporter supposedly asks a question doesn't make any sense. It's possible, but not probable. Marky C. hit it right on the head.
My point being is that since Wade has gotten to the league he has also been on the country's team like Dirk has. Dirk isn't on Germany to be a leader or necessarily to improve his game (although both come with the task), but rather to support and defend his country. Wade is on team USA for the same thing, although loyalty to your country is less valued here. Outside of taking a shot at Wade that he is doing it to sell more shoes, I don't see what the point was for bringing it up as playing for your country's team doesn't have a thing to do with this convo. It doesn't make him a great leader. All of what wade said is a mystery really. No one really knows why he brought it up. I highly doubt he would be going through a normal interview and then all of a sudden bring it out of the blue, especially considering this is one of the 1st times he has ever criticized a player like this. I feel that somewhere along the interview an interviewer brought up something Dirk said, brough tup the Finals, or whatever. What did he hit on the head? Bottom line is Dirk shot below 40% for series, and didn't show up, while Wade did takeover. What Wade said was right, although he shouldn't have said it in the first place. Hell, Cuban couldn't even spell Dwyane correctly. I love that Cuban stood up for his player, but I don't see what you think he "hit on the head".
I get what he is saying. But, it wasn't all Dirk. But, even I will admit. The mavericks SHOULD have won that championship.
Dirk just got 38 Points, 11 Rebounds and 8 Assists, 2 Steals in his last game. How is he not leading his team? Those are excellent stats for a leader.
GA had 60pts/8reb/8ast in December yet his own coach says he isn't a leader. Stats don't mean your a leader.
Wow..It was a team effort that they lost..not just Dirk. As much as I love Wade thats kind of an immature thing to say.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 13 2007, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My point being is that since Wade has gotten to the league he has also been on the country's team like Dirk has. Dirk isn't on Germany to be a leader or necessarily to improve his game (although both come with the task), but rather to support and defend his country. Wade is on team USA for the same thing, although loyalty to your country is less valued here. Outside of taking a shot at Wade that he is doing it to sell more shoes, I don't see what the point was for bringing it up as playing for your country's team doesn't have a thing to do with this convo. It doesn't make him a great leader. All of what wade said is a mystery really. No one really knows why he brought it up. I highly doubt he would be going through a normal interview and then all of a sudden bring it out of the blue, especially considering this is one of the 1st times he has ever criticized a player like this. I feel that somewhere along the interview an interviewer brought up something Dirk said, brough tup the Finals, or whatever. What did he hit on the head? Bottom line is Dirk shot below 40% for series, and didn't show up, while Wade did takeover. What Wade said was right, although he shouldn't have said it in the first place. Hell, Cuban couldn't even spell Dwyane correctly. I love that Cuban stood up for his player, but I don't see what you think he "hit on the head".</div>That's your opinion. My opinion is that Dirk doesn't do it just to help his team improve their image or whatever. A bronze for the US is not impressive. I can't see how you wouldn't understand the point. Dirk has, for years, worked year round to improve his game. It is an expression, not a determinant, of leadership. Is that clear enough, or do I have to give you a see-and-say to help you get it?It seems pretty obvious to me what brought it up. The criticism from his teammates and from the media. You probably haven't noticed, since you like to ignore common sense most times.Did you even read the article? If you see a ship with a torn sail, is the captain a good leader? If you go to a country with millions in poverty and millions sticken with disease, do they have a good leader? If the Raptors have a better record than you, does your team really have a good leader? Think about it. Two of their players were put on the bench for weight problems. Just because a team plays badly for a few games does not make their leader a bad leader (meaning Wade's association was silly). I think you know that. Payton Manning certainly isn't a bad leader. Or do you think otherwise?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 14 2007, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GA had 60pts/8reb/8ast in December yet his own coach says he isn't a leader. Stats don't mean your a leader.</div>The difference is that Gilbert Arenas is a loudmouth and likes the spotlight. You are easily the most short-sighted poster on these forums.
[quote name='Justice' post='289012' date='Feb 14 2007, 06:29 PM']That's your opinion. My opinion is that Dirk doesn't do it just to help his team improve their image or whatever. A bronze for the US is not impressive. I can't see how you wouldn't understand the point. Dirk has, for years, worked year round to improve his game. It is an expression, not a determinant, of leadership. Is that clear enough, or do I have to give you a see-and-say to help you get it?[/quote]Wade has improved his game every single year. He along with about 20 or so other players go to this place in Chicago every year for scrimmages/improve game (as seen in Slam), he has been on the US team 2 of the past 3 seasons, and each year has something new in his arsenal. Is that not also an expression of leadership? It's why I don't see why you brought up Dirk playing international ball in the summer, as Wade also has in 2 of the 3 past summers and comes into each new season better than the previous season. The only reason why you brough tit up was to take a cheap shot at Wade. None of his teammates criticized Wade as being a leader. He kept them around .500 without Shaq and is having the best statisitical seaosn in the NBA. When you have a bunch of vet's that just won their first championship it is not out of the ordinary for them to come into the next season a but un-motivated. And that is exactly what they were to start off the season. They were not in shape, 2 of their starters were injured within first 2 weeks of season, Pat Riley had to take a break 1/3 of the way through the season, seasoned vets weren't playing nearly as well as they are capable, and they had to rely on players deep off the bench like Kapono, etc... With all of that, wade kept them sticking around at .500, won them games, and did what he could. After leading his team through the NCAA torunarment, hitting game winners in first time in playoffs, having another big postseason in his 2nd year, and then the following year carrying his team to a ring, and then this year without 2 of his best players and many other in and out/interim coach he is having the best year of his career and playing the best ball in the NBA....it is unfair to criticize him for leadership. In the pro's, especially when dealing with vets, it's impossible to force them to do anything in offseason without telling them that they will be held out from money or playing time (which is why Walker and posey got into shape halfway through the season). Wade was away playing for his country in the summer and can't force GP to practice jumpers (shooting under 40%), for Walker and Posey to get into shape and practice shooting (Walker shooting under 30% from 3 and 33% from FT line), or for Jason Williams to get necassary surgery back in July rather than during season. he can't prevent Shaq and Riley injuries that happen during the season.Peyton is a great leader, but his thing was never showing up in the playoffs. And until this year that criticism was fair. You can't say same thing about Dirk as he has came up huge in the playoffs, but if you're gonna say we handed you a ring, it isn't necassary false for Wade to turn that back and say Dirk didn't come up big in crunch time and that is the reason they lost. I never said Dirk is a bad leader, he is a fantastic leader. he never talks bad about teammates to the media, is postive and vocal on the court, comes up in clutch, and carries the team when need be. But using stats from a single game to prove it is stupid, and that's what I meant with the Gilbert example.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 14 2007, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's why I don't see why you brought up Dirk playing international ball in the summer, as Wade also has in 2 of the 3 past summers and comes into each new season better than the previous season. The only reason why you brough tit up was to take a cheap shot at Wade.</div>I READ THAT HE HAS PLAYED TWO OF THE PAST THREE SEASONS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAID IT. HEY LET'S REPEAT EVERYTHING.I didn't bring up Wade with the international basketball thing. You did.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 14 2007, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>None of his teammates criticized Wade as being a leader. He kept them around .500 without Shaq and is having the best statisitical seaosn in the NBA. When you have a bunch of vet's that just won their first championship it is not out of the ordinary for them to come into the next season a but un-motivated. And that is exactly what they were to start off the season. They were not in shape, 2 of their starters were injured within first 2 weeks of season, Pat Riley had to take a break 1/3 of the way through the season, seasoned vets weren't playing nearly as well as they are capable, and they had to rely on players deep off the bench like Kapono, etc... With all of that, wade kept them sticking around at .500, won them games, and did what he could. After leading his team through the NCAA torunarment, hitting game winners in first time in playoffs, having another big postseason in his 2nd year, and then the following year carrying his team to a ring, and then this year without 2 of his best players and many other in and out/interim coach he is having the best year of his career and playing the best ball in the NBA....it is unfair to criticize him for leadership.In the pro's, especially when dealing with vets, it's impossible to force them to do anything in offseason without telling them that they will be held out from money or playing time (which is why Walker and posey got into shape halfway through the season). Wade was away playing for his country in the summer and can't force GP to practice jumpers (shooting under 40%), for Walker and Posey to get into shape and practice shooting (Walker shooting under 30% from 3 and 33% from FT line), or for Jason Williams to get necassary surgery back in July rather than during season. he can't prevent Shaq and Riley injuries that happen during the season.</div>So basically, you agree with what I am saying. You cannot force anyone to do anything, only help lead your team.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 14 2007, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I never said Dirk is a bad leader, he is a fantastic leader.</div>You said that Wade was right. Wade said that Dirk wasn't the leader that he is supposed to be. That seems to suggest that you agree with Wade's position that the way things went have to do with his leadership qualities. I guess you like contradicting yourself. Check.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Feb 14 2007, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't bring up Wade with the international basketball thing. You did.</div>And you replied with a smarta$$ remark in saying he's doing it for shoe sales rather than what Dirk is in it for. That's just being biased and unfair to Wade.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>So basically, you agree with what I am saying. You cannot force anyone to do anything, only help lead your team.</div>Yes, which is why I don't see why you said Cuban hit on the head. He said the exact opposite of what you believe. Unlike wade who is playing the best ball of his career this year yet team is losing, Dirk played well udner his average in the Finals. If he put up what he usually does in the Finals Wade would have no case at all. As I said before, I don't agree with Wade singling out Dirk and such, but what he said wasn't correct. Cuban, on the other hand, I agree with singling out Wade since he is just sticking up for his team because of a cheap shot by Dirk, but I don't agree with his case for questioning Wade's leadership.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You said that Wade was right. Wade said that Dirk wasn't the leader that he is supposed to be. That seems to suggest that you agree with Wade's position that the way things went have to do with his leadership qualities. I guess you like contradicting yourself. Check.</div>I agree with Wade that in the Finals Dirk did not do a great job of taking over and leading his team, but Dirk has done way too much in other playoff series' and in regular seasons for those 6 games to change my POV of him being a great leader. But yes, in the Finals he is correct in saying he wasn't assertive enough.
