Meyers mandate to shoot swish3s

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by swish3, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    No. Meyers was 1 of 3 tonight but will get back in the leading 50%+ groove in coming games, and may again lead the NBA 3 point scoring. He needs another made shot, and to keep his accurate touch going, continue to play with energy and enthusiasm, shoot from well timed assist passes to sweet spots, and continue to be a screening, rebounding, pass distributing force for the Blazer bench. I expect that he will continue to trade places with Bojan at the top of the swish3 % scoring leader board.

    I thought that Meyers played a good game tonight, in particular that screen that got Dame his 10th swish3, even though this was not among his peak shooting games. Let's see what Meyers does against the Nuggets on Friday.
     
  2. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    The Nuggets game provides support for my argument that Meyers does not have the mandate, in the form of a game plan that includes his scoring 9+ swish3 points with at least 6 attempts. In the Nuggets game, Meyers was on target to score 50% with 1 of 2, but took no more shots because he did not get the assist passes when he worked open on the arc. There were at least 6 times when I noted that he was at the sweet spot and open, but Dame, CJ, Evan, Nik, and Zach did not look at him and instead missed a strongly challenged, or even double-teamed shot, or made a bad pass, rather than a pass or series of passes that would have allowed Meyers to take those additional 4 swish3 shots that would probably have added 6 points and won the game.

    There is no way that the Blazers should have lost the swish3 contest to the Nuggets by 24 points with an NBA leading swish3 % shooter on the team, but we did! For the Spurs game, a game plan should state before the game starts (instead of just determined by game flow) that Meyers should shoot 6 swish3s, and if he is making 50%+ keep shooting swish3s, to help achieve wins over the Spurs, and Mavericks, and in future games. The most swish3 attempts that Meyers has taken this season were 4, and in the Nuggets team 27% swish3 shooting game, only 2. The Blazers need to have a game plan that takes advantage of the swish3 scoring talent on the team and to aim for 15+ swish3s scored per game. When Dame and Nik are not hitting them, the Blazers should be counting on Meyers to use his excellent swish3 scoring talent as a mainstay to keep 3 point power scoring up to at least the level of the opponent. In most games, 15 will do it, but 12 is not enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  3. H.C.

    H.C. Well-Known Member

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    @swish3 you need to coin a term for Nard's screen assists.
    Guy has always been Portland's best screener.
     
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  4. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    What a game! Not only did the Blazers not mandate swish3 shooting by top of the NBA Meyers, there was not a single swish3 attempt (and only one made dunk2) FG by him. This does not make sense. The game plan did not even have Meyers moving to the arc. Even further, with 2 of 2 scoring by Mo and 4 of 5 scoring by Chief, the Blazers had swish3 attempts taken mostly by Dame 11 and CJ 6, and Zach missed both of his 2. The Blazers were 12 of 29 (41.4%) on swish3s, but did not do as well with % in the 2nd half. Mo and Chief should have continued to shoot.

    The lack of defense was painful, with more than 30 points allowed each quarter. The half ended with 62 Spurs points to 55 Blazer points, and then the Blazers allowed 35 and 34 points in the 3rd and 4th quarters. The 131 point Spurs score demonstrates why I have stated that the Blazers need to be aiming to score at least 130 PPG for a chance to win. The Spurs scored 11 of 15 swish3s (73.3%)! The Blazers must play better defense and counter swish3 scoring with selecting and feeding the hot hand, and must do so throughout the game.

    From now on, let's have game planning that makes a weapon of our swish3 shooting by emphasizing our hot hand shooters and feeding them assist passes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  5. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    The Mavs game was a terrible shock event on many levels. There is a lot to criticize. I will stay with the theme of strategy for better Blazer scoring. It is just indefensible to me that with one of the top 2 swish3 shooters in the NBA, the coaches of the Blazers, now for 2 games in a row, did not order up a single swish3 by Meyers. The off ball pattern that Meyers has run in both of the Texas games does not even have him popping to the arc, and he did not even try to get open for a shot. While some on this forum might blame Meyers, it is evident to me that the play plan by the coaches did not include swish3 shooting that would have brought the Blazers from 6-12 points, or perhaps more, if Meyers swish3 shooting were included.

    In earlier games, e.g., Knicks on Nov 20, MIN on Nov 16, BOS on Nov 11), Meyers was not only screening, but popping out to the arc and moving in concert with teammates to get opponents off balance and out of position, and that created open shots for him and more often for others. That scoring pattern also included more passes and assists, and higher total scoring above the 112 point NBA average. In the last 2 games, the pattern seems to be screen everywhere, inside the arc and even in the paint, and clog up the lane under the basket. This sag to the basket rotation is a terrible waste of talent and opportunity for shots. The Blazers must analyze offense player movements and focus on optimizing scoring power, including getting to 15+ swish3s per game and aiming for more than league average (112 pt) scoring, The Blazers can be scoring 120-130 PPG.

    In this thread, I argued for mandating that Meyers shoot at least 6 swish3 attempts which would increase Blazer scoring by 9 PPG, just assuming the average, and possibly 12+ PPG. These additional points are enough to make the difference, turning these losses into wins. Even in the MAVs game, the 9 points would have given us a 111 tie. With Meyers shooting during his min in the 1st Q and 2nd Q, there should be no more Q in which the Blazers score <28 points. These last 2 games seem to prove my point that Meyers is not getting the mandate, either as individual coaching or as team game plan, to contribute to his potential. This flaw needs to be addressed for the Blazers to get back on the winning pathway.
     
  6. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    You do realize that Meyers had 2 fouls in 45 seconds and was out of the game with 3 fouls in 5 minutes, right?

    That invalidated everything you said. Focus on the game, not your agenda.
     
  7. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Meyers had fouls. And so did others in a poorly inconsistently officiated game. He could have played for a long stretch with 3 fouls. That is not the point. Nothing that I said is negated!

    The Blazers needed the 9-15 points that Meyers could have contributed if the screen outside the arc and pop open pattern of earlier winning games were the game plan. Looking for what worked and optimizing player talents for Blazer scoring is what we need for wins. Of course, defense also has to improve by keeping a fresh lineup in the game that can provide tenacious determined close defense, swatting away passes, preventing layups, and interfering with swish3 attempts.

    A game plan that optimizes Blazer talents will result in a return to winning.
     
  8. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Here's a guy (Dwight Jaynes) who agrees with swish3 (and i agree with this article).
    • "As you probably know, Meyers Leonard (.513) is Portland’s best three-point shooter and he didn’t get anything close to an attempt in this game. The Blazers’ second-best shooter from three? That would be Seth Curry (.447). He got two attempts and made one. Nik Stauskas is shooting .400 and he was 0-3, unusual for him. But Jake Layman, who is shooting .385, didn’t even play – although he was a starter earlier in the season.
    • Al-Farouq Aminu, coming off two terrific three-point shooting games, didn’t get his first attempt until four and a half minutes remained in the game. He made it."
    I noticed myself in last night's game that the players were playing with urgency and desperation late in the game, but they really didn't any closer. The only team type play i saw in the last five minutes was someone (Lillard?) kicking the ball out to Aminu for a three. Why not let guys like Leonard and Curry shoot more threes; I mean why not actually run plays that set them up to take an open three?

    https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest...zers-quality-3-point-shooters-getting-more-3s
     
  9. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    I'm struggling to decide if this makes @swish3's position more, or less, credible.

    BNM
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  10. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Yeh, I even question my own ideas. Like if we actually ran plays for Leonard, would that make him freeze up and blow the shot?
     
  11. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    The 2 Texas games make it clear that there was no plan for Meyers to shoot swish3s. Sagging into the paint instead of staying at the arc allowed double teaming of Dame, CJ, and Nurk. It was a major mistake not to call on the swish3 accuracy of Meyers to score the 9-15 points that he could have contributed, as he has in previous games. Yes, he would have probably scored them if given the chance in the corners or at one of his many sweet spots if the Blazers had directed his off ball movements as in the games in which he scored 3 to 5 swish3s. Dame, CJ, and Nurk really need the swish3 scoring that Meyers can bring. These games show that he does not have the mandate from the coaches,
     
  12. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Did I miss a game in Houston?
     
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  13. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    That was a typo now corrected.
     
  14. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    The mandate for Meyers to score 9-15 PPG via swish3s is missing. In the last 4 games, Meyers shot 1 (MIN), 2 (Suns), 0 (DAL), and 0 (Spurs), despite that fact that he is averaging >50% shooting to this point. Meyers is at the highest in his career with 16.8 points/36 min, 18.0 TRB%, 3.2 BPM, 11.8 in ASST%, and 0.205 in WS/48. These numbers verify that he is contributing in both offense and defense, and prompt my call for optimizing his scoring into the 12-20 PPG (counting added dunk2s and free1s) that he ought to be contributing to Blazer wins.

    I believe that Meyers is obedient to Blazer coaches, and yet the most swish3 attempts per game that Meyers has made this season are 4. It is a missed opportunity to ask Meyers to take midrange jump shots. That does not make sense given that he has documented swish3 scoring achievements and remains among the top few swish3 % shooters in the NBA. The Blazers need to return to the game plan that has Meyers moving to his sweet spots for assist passes to accomplish the 9+ point scoring on 6 or less swish3 attempts. Meyers productivity in swish3 scoring will lead the Blazers to wins when the coaches game plan includes the mandate for 6 or more swish3 attempts by Meyers in each game.
     
  15. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    After 31 games, we finally saw the game in which Meyers attempted more than 4 swish3s. In the MEM game Dec 19 Meyers was 2 of 5, but this is after 5 games in which he took a total of only 6 attempts. This lack of shooting is the problem that this thread addresses, because when Meyers is not attempting swish3s and looking for catch and shoot plays that allow him to score, the advantage of his talent is not being used. Considering the importance to the Blazer offense of his outstanding screens, rebounding, floor spacing, blocking the paint, passing, and off ball movement, Meyers can contribute to offensive and defensive achievements that boost the Blazers to sufficient wins for the Blazers to make the NBA finals. And when Meyers shoots at least 6 swish3s per game he will return to 50%+ swish3 shooting among the elite leaders of the NBA. This is why we need this mandate.

    When Meyers and Zach are both in the game, as the MEM win demonstrates, defensive determination, rebounds, and scoring can be increased, especially in games when the starters are not providing leading play. This is where the Blazers find the wins over MEM, NOP, LAC, TOR, GSW, and others that were elusive last season. Now that we have seen what the Blazer bench can do against MEM 44 points and TOR 58 points and the wins that result, we can expect to progress toward the Championship.
     
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  16. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    The terrible 1st day of winter Jazz loss shows the opposite of a mandate for Meyers to provide Blazer power swish3 scoring. After making 2 consecutive swish3s in 1 minute during the 2 min mark in the 3rd Q, Meyers was not made the focus that could have continued with 3 point scoring, and instead was benched in the 4th Q after missing 1 attempt. I would have liked to know what the next 3 shots would have done (maybe 6 more points). As long as a Blazer is scoring >50% of swish3s, it makes greatest sense is to keep shooting. What the Blazer coaches need to recognize is that when a Blazer is hot from the arc, he should keep getting catch and shoots to maximize scoring and continue piling up the scoring. This seemingly obvious strategy would make an important improvement that will at least avoid 30 point blowout losses and is likely to lead to more wins. Let's try this in coming MAV, Jazz, and GSW games.
     
  17. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    After the 2 Warriors games, the need for additional scoring to add to Dame and Nurk contributions is reinforced. The GSW at Oakland and at home games Dec 27 and 29 showed that the Blazers can win using the additional hot hands when they are worked in from the bench based on the leading % shooters. Dame and Nurk combined for 48 points, aided by 24 from CJ in the Oakland win, and 61 points in the home loss. But there were only 14 bench points in the loss versus 20 in the win, and a deficit of 9 points from swish3s in the loss versus matching them in the win. Dame and Nurk need to be supported by scoring power to lift us to the wins.

    These 2 GSW games showed that 6 of 13 swish3 scoring by Dame is powerful, even in the loss, and that if combined with 9 points each from swish3 scoring by Meyers and Seth, the loss could also have been a win. But in the loss, Meyers shot only 1 and Seth shot only 2, instead of the 6 each that their leading % justified. Added to the dunk2 scoring, Meyers should have added 9 swish3 points and 2 FT that would have won the game.

    This was a crazy game with unacceptable officiating that quite inconsistently called fouls on the Blazers, especially in favor of Steph, and were no calls of hard fouls of Dame, Nurk, Chief, Mo, and Meyers. The early offensive foul called on Meyers as Green pushed him just trying to establish position in the paint was a sign of the lack of even an unbiased game to follow. Meyers was clearly fouled during his 1st dunk, but no call. The 3 technicals assessed the Blazers and the 5 point FT advantage proved the point and should trigger NBA review.

    What is missing is the off ball rotation that was successful in games like MEM Dec 19 and UTAH Dec 21 in which Meyers circulated actively through the paint to the corners and around the arc. Meyers set screens that opened swish3 shots for Dame, Seth, CJ, Nik, and others, and had excellent assist passes, such as the one to Seth in the GSW win. The Blazer half court offense does need to be enhanced with a pattern that keeps all players moving to facilitate open swish3 shots from sweet spots while opening the paint for drives to the rim and kick out passes.

    This analysis calls for more passing to give the catch and shoot scoring that was missing in the GSW loss, but we know that Blazers can achieve. Instead of wasted shots and lost passes, for which Evan, CJ, and Zach are recently making, the Blazers should be looking to include the high powered swish3 shooting from the bench of Meyers and Seth to win games like the GSW loss.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  18. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    With the SAC Kings Jan 1, 2019 win, it is clear that the Blazer coach instructions to Meyers are to not shoot swish3s, as he shot 0 in the SAC (and also the PHI) games. The point is that Meyers is a highly conscientious Blazer who does exactly what he is instructed to do. Instead of shooting 6 swish3s, or even the 4 swish3s he was shooting when averaging >50%, he is now shooting 0.

    This is a misuse of his talent, as indicated by the floor rotations that he is doing with his only passes received being drives to the basket. While the superb game by Nurk shows that 24/23/7/5/5 is possible--and powerful--for the Blazer Center, Meyers should be adding 12+ points, 6+ rebounds, 4+ assists based on his outstanding swish3 % shooting. While Nurk was wise to attempt 0, Meyers should be the Blazer Center running the rotation to the arc and taking at least 4 and optimally 6 swish3 attempts to add 6 to 9 points for the position. Seth and Meyers are currently the Blazer best swish3 shooters who should each be attempting 6 per game, and continuing if making 50%+ to enhance Blazer scoring. SAC almost made a comeback with hot swish3 shooting (including 5 of 8 by Hield) in a game in which Dame was 1 of 9 and CJ was 0 of 5, and we needed more swish3 scoring, ending up with a 6 point deficit. Seth was 4 of 6 and Chief was 3 of 5, and Meyers should have been 3+ of 6.

    There will be several games in the rest of the season and the playoffs when more swish3 scoring, probably 15+ of them, will be needed for wins. Let's hope that the mandate will be for the swish3 shooters, and not waste the opportunities for the added points and wins.
     
  19. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    You did not watch the game. Meyers passed up several open attempts the last two games. If you want to have any credibility you can't have these ridiculously clueless posts.
     
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  20. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Hoopsjock, I did watch the games and saw that Meyers was not indicating that he was looking to shoot. And he was not running the rotation that he had run in earlier games in which his swish3 shooting % was over 50. What I conclude from these games is that Meyers is looking for a pass into the paint for a drive or mid-range, both of which are less of a scoring threat than are the swish3s. The game plan for best use of his talent would have Meyers shooting 6 swish3s.

    Open shots would be those where Meyers is open on the arc via a kick out pass, or a pick and pop, or a screen, none of which have been in the play book. Meyers is screening, distributing, and assisting teammates, but is not rotating to or looking for open swish3 attempts, and that I what I would change.
     

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