First time all stars-- does CJ make it this year?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by illmatic99, Aug 8, 2019.

?

Next Blazer All Star

  1. CJ

    35.0%
  2. Nurk

    27.5%
  3. Whiteside

    15.0%
  4. One of the youngins

    7.5%
  5. Blazer not currently on the roster

    15.0%
  1. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    It's also the middle of August and we're at least a month and half away from any truly interesting basketball related topics
     
    THE HCP likes this.
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    31,952
    Likes Received:
    40,230
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd really like to see that, actually. The players get to have a say on the starters, but they don't get to weigh in on the reserves. It'd be nice if the players got to weigh in on reserve selection as well.
     
    THE HCP likes this.
  3. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,715
    Likes Received:
    32,575
    Trophy Points:
    113
    KAT has played in the last 2 all-star games, so obviously, NBA coaches disagree

    winshares would be a decent gauge, I guess, although you'd have to try and normalize for guys who play on teams that didn't have as many wins. But for sure, if CJ was that impactful in terms of wins, he'd be right behind Dame in winshares and winshares/48. Winshares is more cumulative, as in if you play more minutes, you'd tend to have more winshares, while winshares/48 normalizes for each team:

    winshares:

    Damian Lillard 12.1 Jusuf Nurkić 7.8 Al-Farouq Aminu 5.8 CJ McCollum 5.6 Maurice Harkless 3.4

    winshares/48:

    Damian Lillard .205 Enes Kanter .196 Jusuf Nurkić .189 Meyers Leonard .164 Al-Farouq Aminu .121 Maurice Harkless .114 CJ McCollum .114 Jake Layman .111

    box plus/minus also gauges impact:


    Damian Lillard 5.5 Jusuf Nurkić 5.1 Enes Kanter 2.3 Maurice Harkless 2.2 Meyers Leonard 1.4 Al-Farouq Aminu 0.9 CJ McCollum 0.3 Zach Collins 0.1

    wins over replacement player:

    Damian Lillard 14.6 Jusuf Nurkić 9.5 Al-Farouq Aminu 4.6 Maurice Harkless 4.0 CJ McCollum 3.5

    obviously no stat is perfect and you'd probably need to filter out limited minutes players like Meyers. But it seems to me that if you're going to give CJ all kinds of all-star credit for Blazer wins while doing the opposite with other players on lottery teams, then CJ should be showing a lot better than he does in Blazer rankings. I mean, Dame leads in every single category; definite all-star material. If CJ is a 2nd all-star, why wasn't he 2nd in even one category instead of 4th, 7th, 7th, & 5th?
     
    tester551 likes this.
  4. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    23,215
    Likes Received:
    28,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Do you head up the anti-CJ McCollum club? Seems like you spend a lot of effort searching stats to prove how crappy he is.
     
    CupWizier, BonesJones and illmatic99 like this.
  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,715
    Likes Received:
    32,575
    Trophy Points:
    113
    c'mon man...the topic isn't how crappy he is. It's if he deserves an all-star nod. Somebody just implied CJ was all-star level impactful because of Portland's winning rate. Why aren't stats that try and gauge player contributions to wins and impact relevant?
     
    Strenuus likes this.
  6. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    Maybe you need to get back to hating on Neil again for letting Kanter/Harkless/Leonard/Aminu go while paying CJ 100 mil. What with these stats being your end all be all.
     
  7. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,715
    Likes Received:
    32,575
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't send a single insult your way and didn't make it personal at all. I was responding, in my own fashion, to a thread you made about CJ being an all-star. Why the snark?

    how about at least responding to the argument I made using Blazer stats? I'll ask again: Dame was an all-star and led the team, significantly, in all 4 of those stats. If CJ deserves all-star consideration, why wasn't he 2nd on the team in even one?

    by the way, please find one single post of mine where I "hated" on Olshey for 'letting' Kanter/Harkless/Leonard/Aminu go.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  8. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    Not one stat you mentioned looks at CJ in isolation. Take away the perpetual negative Evan Turner in nearly all the lineups in which CJ plays and show me that stat. You might come up with different conclusions.

    A top 3 team in the conference generally gets two all stars. That was the whole intent of this thread-- to highlight that. And generally these guys make the team over the top dog on the 15th team in the conference.
     
  9. Titan

    Titan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    3,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Honestly, I would prefer to see Jusuf Nurkić make the all-star team. He puts up near all-star like numbers/stats already. Too bad he is injured right now. They way I look at it is if he is fine and we were top team in the west then we should get 2 all-stars and they would be Dame and Nurk. I don't hate CJ, I just really like the Dame/Nurk combo.
     
    Stumptown14 and tester551 like this.
  10. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    31,952
    Likes Received:
    40,230
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That doesn't really seem to have been the case the past few years...

     
    BonesJones likes this.
  11. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    66,305
    Likes Received:
    64,444
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If CJ wants an allstar nod....it's simple...beast and win a championship...school Steph Curry and Mike Conley on the court.
     
  12. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    66,305
    Likes Received:
    64,444
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nurk won't get a shot this season...he's in recovery...if they announced allstars after the playoffs he might
     
    Dougnsalem likes this.
  13. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    Yup, it's changed. Prolly had a lot to do with GS getting 3/4 guys monopolizing the team for multiple years.
     
    Titan and PtldPlatypus like this.
  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,715
    Likes Received:
    32,575
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ok then isolation; first number is frequency, 2nd NBA PPP percentile rank:

    CJ - 11.3% - 70.9%

    Evan Turner - 8.2% - 81.7%
    Harrison Barnes (Sac.) - 8.8% - 86.2%
    Rudy Gay - 15.7% - 75.1%
    Demar Derozan - 18.7% - 80.1%
    Rodney Hood - 9.6% - 83.0%
    Jimmy Butler - 10.2% - 76.1%
    Tobias Harris - 9.3% - 74.7%
    Julius Randle - 12.2% - 67.8%
    Derrick Rose - 12.5% - 88.9%
    Khris Middleton - 15.8% - 91.3%
    Jaren Jackson - 10.7% - 71.6%
    Brandon Ingram - 14.2% - 80.1%
    Danilo Gallinari - 14.5% - 69.2%
    Austin Rivers - 25.1% - 81.3%
    Blake Griffin - 13.0% - 72.7%

    that's probably more than enough, but I'm just not seeing all-star in CJ's isolation numbers. And it's only 11% of his game anyway, and that's only on one end of the floor. IIRC, only two all-stars on that list and only a couple of the players were worse than CJ in isolation, at least in terms of ppp

    as for the Turner factor, I'm not sure how you'd gauge that. But, going by 5 man lineups on bbref, it kind of looks like Dame played a little more with Turner than CJ did
     
  15. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    IN isolation, as in by his impact on his own without consideration to his 4 other teammates, not ISOLATION stats. I feel like you don't read posts as a whole and consider context, just pick and choose words by themselves and go off on your tangents.

    Good grief :smiley-bash:
     
  16. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,715
    Likes Received:
    32,575
    Trophy Points:
    113
    what are you talking about? You said: "Not one stat you mentioned looks at CJ in isolation."

    so I did that and now you move the goalposts...again:

    "IN isolation, as in by his impact on his own without consideration to his 4 other teammates"...where would you find stats like that? How could you measure that 'impact'?

    I get it; you want to...'ignore the numbers, ignore CJ's team, ignore CJ's teammates, and just accept CJ's greatness when he's dribbling the damn ball...all-star!! is that fair?

    you started off by talking about impact on wins. When that didn't sail so smoothly, you distilled it down to isolation. But since the NBA tracks isolation numbers, you now want to discard those numbers and just focus the camera on CJ. Did you expect everyone to agree "yeah sure, CJ = all-star, makes sense"?

    would have it been better for you if I had just answered the the question in the thread title by saying "not a chance"...?
     
  17. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    You can't. That's the point.

    Yes.
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,715
    Likes Received:
    32,575
    Trophy Points:
    113
    life's not fair
     
  19. stampedehero

    stampedehero Make Your Day, a Doobies Day Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,443
    Likes Received:
    9,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Part Time Building Inspector
    Location:
    NJ
    We all would like him to be nominated but you all know how the system works. Superstars in large markets always get the nod. CJ"S chances are as strong as Adam Silver with muscles.
     
    Dougnsalem likes this.
  20. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think it's a market size thing. He might be unlucky to be in the West, but he is in this conference and he surely doesn't deserve to be an All-Star. There are easily 12 better players.
     
    PtldPlatypus likes this.

Share This Page