Yeah that was my bad. Lol. My brain didnt register the sentence after it. God damn posting at midnight on my phone.
I think the best way to grade olshey is to grade each part of his job. Hiring coaches Draft Trades Free Agency There are other parts of his job, but those are the main ones that can be judged by outsiders. Hiring coaches: well, he’s only had to hire one. From what I remember, the other finalists were Canales and Elston Turner. Stotts has gone on and made the playoffs every year except one despite not having the greatest rosters. He’s not perfect, but relatively speaking, the hire was a very good one. A Draft: his only real miss since taking over as GM has been Biggie. You could say Meyers, but look at who was drafted after him. 14 of the 19 players picked after Leonard in the first round are out of the league. The other five are John Henson, Jeremy Lamb, Harkless, Fournier, and Miles Plumlee. Can’t say Portland really missed out on anyone. One (maybe two) misses in a six year span is pretty filthy, and that’s not counting the ‘19 draft. A Trades: Best to just list all the main ones. 2012: nothing really noteworthy besides dumping Felton 2013: Traded two seconds (neither still in the league) for Crabbe. That’s a hit. Traded two seconds and Withey for Robin Lopez, who stabilized the center position as Portland made the playoffs. Hit. 2014: Traded Barton, Trob, Claver, and a first (which turned out to be Malik Beasley) for Afflalo and Gee. This one is hard to grade because of Matthews’ injury. Before he went down Afflalo was filling his intended role nicely and the team was rolling. In hindsight the deal looks awful, but at the time, it was the right move to make. I definitely wouldn’t label this a miss. 2015: Traded Batum for Gerald Henderson and Vonleh. Now this is what I call a miss. Trade didn’t make sense when it happened and I’d argue the team has still yet to replace Batum. Fuck this trade. Traded Hollis-Jefferson and Blake for Plumlee and Connaughton. I’d say that was a hit as Plumlee elevated his game in Portland as a starter. Hollis-Jefferson is pretty much another one dimensional player we had enough of. Traded a late second round pick for Harkless. Despite his inconsistency I don’t know how you can grade this as anything but a hit. Maybe if that late second rounder in next years draft turns into a good player, but the odds are mad stacked against that. Took on Varajeos dead money in exchange for a 1st round pick (which turned into Biggie.) Yuck. 2016: Traded a second rounder for Layman. Layman is a rotational player. We’ll see how Jaylen Hands works out, the guy picked with that selection. Traded cash for Napier. A rotational player for nothing. Traded Plumlee for Nurkic and a first, which was later packaged for Zach Collins. Cha Ching. 2017: Nothing really noteworthy besides the Collins trade, and some financial moves; dumping Crabbe and Vonleh. 2018: Traded cash, and two seconds for Trent Jr. TBD but I think Trent is good enough to be in the rotation. Traded Biggie for Skal. I mean technically this is another TBD, but this ones going to be a huge hit as I don’t see Biggie being in the league much longer. Traded Baldwin, Stauskas and two seconds for Hood. Bank. 2019: Traded Turner for Bazemore. Traded Moe and Meyers for Whiteside TBD but I like the odds that they both work out. They have value as big expirings even if they don’t. So the two misses for me are the Varajao trade (although Olshey kind of redeemed himself by turning Biggie into Skal) and the Batum one. B Free Agency: now we’re on a slippery slope. I do think Olshey deserves some credit for retaining the majority of his core players (dame, CJ, Nurkic) and finding value (Ed, Chief, mo williams, Kaman, Kanter, Curry) but he also deserves criticism for losing Aldridge without getting anything in return, as well as probably the worst summer of any GM in 2016 with the Turner, Meyers, Harkless, Ezeli, and Crabbe contracts (although the Crabbe decision might’ve been Allen’s) I’d say the bad outweighs the good here. He’ll have money again starting next summer, so let’s see if he’s learned anything. D So with all that said, my grade for Neil so far is probably a B.
In order to get either one of them right now it would have to constitute giving up CJ and a shit load of people that are just about to develop, and I will take Zach over Love any day. I cant stand Griffin...at all...his biggest talent when he came into the NBA was Flop..Whine ..and Dunk in that order after 4 years he finally developed an outside shot only AFTER he got injured and found out he was worthless on the offense without one. Since then he has turned into a good player but I still don't want that shit on my team not at that price. I am probably a minority in this but it is how I feel.
Somehow you fail to understand that this thread is discussing Olshey's results in managing the club not mine. Passing on a generational talent for an above average starter is not something you can apologize your way into making it a positive. Evaluating/recognizing talent is his job not mine. A great GM can recognize/acquire talent and contend, average GMs win some and lose some and then get fired. Neil has done a little better then that in my estimation which is why he's still got his gig but getting swept every year in the playoffs and then not addressing the constant reason why is wearing thin for me. If this were Glengarry Glen Ross he'd be the nervous owner of a set of steak knives. STOMP
How about passing on All Stars Giannis & Gobert? I like Zach, but Donovan Mitchell certainly has had a better start to his career. STOMP
But then you certainly could make a case against every single GM that has ever held a GM position in the entire existence of the NBA because i can guarantee you they have all missed a great player at some point.
It's not a strawman. 1) I'm not convinced that Giannis would be that good of a pairing with Dame and who knows how he would've developed on a team that was loaded at the time and didn't have a chance to just throw Giannis out there on a team that won over 50 games in what would have been his first 2 seasons. 2) Donovan Mitchell hasn't been an All-Star yet. Similar to Giannis who knows what his development would have been like playing behind Dame and CJ in his career so far. 3) So with Rudy Gobert you're arguing that if you don't take a player that every team had graded as a late 1st round pick in the lottery that it's a huge black mark on his record? That is ridiculous.
Right? Has there ever been a draft in the history of any sport where every player was drafted in the exact order for how good they end up being? He's also ignoring teams that are built needing more immediate help versus teams that can afford to be patient with projects.
Bob Myers has been the Warriors GM since 2011 or 8 seasons now. While he passed on Draymond twice, what great player has he missed in the draft? Literally thats the first GM that came to mind to rebut your guarantee and I'm sure I could find many other examples. He pulled Kevon Looney from his ass with the 30th pick in 2015. I posted hopes of adding KL this offseason as he's an above average 4/5 defender, strong rebounder especially offensive boards who knows his Big Man role and plays it well. My guess was he'd be available on the cheap. I saw him as being a perfect guy to bolster their frontcourt as he could effectively play with anyone starting or being a positive force/role player off the bench. Unfortunately it was Meyers who signed him again for 3 years at 5M per. Bob Meyers would get more then a B- for his stretch with the Warriors. STOMP
I didn't say a GM has to pick the best talent in every draft or he's a failure or anything close. Passing on the best talent in the game doesn't happen every draft. Doing so doesn't make you a failure especially if you at least pull the 3rd or 4th best talent in that draft. You don't win it all but you keep your job... Neil "Steak Knives" Olshey I have my suspicions and wish they could be tested STOMP
Swanigan was picked at 26. A guy in that range at the age of 22 who hasn't been outright dropped from the league after two seasons has to be considered at least a mediocre pick. I had low expectations, and they were met. Listing him as a failure seems a bit unfair, and tarnishes Olshey's achievements with Crabbe (picked 31st and still playing 7 seasons in) or Connaughton (picked 41st and will likely be in the NBA until age eventually robs him of athleticism). It's hard finding anything worthwhile with picks after the lottery.
Harrison Barnes Ring a bell? Instead of Andre Drummond? Now the other issue is that they had 4 picks in that draft. So no they didn't completely whiff. I also have to say he is in a tough situation always picking from 28-30 in the draft. But the first and only time he picked lottery he blew it.
While he's certainly better then serviceable starter Harrison Barnes, I might quibble over Andre Drummond being a "great player". He's more of a borderline All Star as evidenced by his 2 selections in 7 seasons & once making an All NBA 3rd team. I don't think his addition would have changed the Warriors fortunes much if at all as Bogut was still contributing at a high level. Switching out Giannis for CJ would be a much bigger deal as he is truly a great player on both ends of the court. But good point on AD though I laugh at the didn't completely wiff comment as he did land Dramond later in that draft who has had a much bigger impact and decorated career. btw, I'm sure the Warriors wish they had Barnes right now. Like Portland, they lack a starting quality SF. STOMP
I doubt that. Only reason they don't have Barnes was so they could have 3 years of Durant. Pretty sure there's zero regret in that decision.
Oh I agree with that of course... & btw a good deal of the credit for landing KD has gone to Meyers as they were very close. I'm just noting that Barnes is head and shoulders better then any SF currently on the Warriors or Blazers. STOMP
So now you are pretty much agreeing with @hoopsjock that drafting is situational and that making decisions during the draft for the team you are drafting for does include who you already have on your roster. Okay. I can roll with that.
