Politics Why don't Republicans care?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Stevenson, Jan 16, 2020.

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  1. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    Let’s parse. You can bitch about Ukraine phone calls and I’ll bitch about bombs getting dropped on children. Some things are more important than others. Since most of the country is worried about your scandal of choice, I’ll be one of the very few worrying about the latter. Although It may not be your place to question my ‘conscious, pride or integrity’ for not brushing aside genocides.
    With that being said, sorry for straying off topic. I hope you find the one or so Republicans in this forum to engage you on the actual thread topic. Look like Maris already has, so it will be slim pickins from here on out.
     
  2. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    One of my favorite comedians. I especially recommend any of the Black Adder episodes.

     
  3. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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  4. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    Well, in reality the Ukraine phone call has to do with the very same things you are talking about. The strong abusing the weak. Trump holding back funds, for any reason, puts Ukraine at further risk of Russian aggression. For Americans it is a phone call perhaps, but for Ukrainians it is a deterrent. (That is, incidentally, why it is so infuriating when people say things like: "Zelensky says there was no quid pro quo" as if he has a choice on what he can say.)

    Why talk about anything but just the worst of the worst? Create a genocide thread and we can talk about that if you want too! But because this isn't genocide doesn't mean it isn't important. Likewise, this is not "just a scandal," and that stance is sort of why this thread exists. It's as if we are all looking at the same thing and some of us are closing one eye or squinting or turning our heads upside-down or closing our eyes altogether trying claiming we aren't.
     
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  5. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    Isn't it sad that no one can take anything you say seriously?
     
  6. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    I always get a little jolt when someone throws an irony dart my way, so I reflected a little and I just wanted to add that the weapons sales in particular pisses me off so much I can feel adrenaline in my veins when I think about it. It's wallpunch worthy. So, yes, the irony that we are arguing about the semantics of a phone call instead of being an accessory to mass murder is bullshit.

    BUT that's where we are and where we are, while nowhere near as serious, is legitimate. It is clearly a failure in comparison. The hope is the magnifying glass will open people's eyes to the other things............................................I guess.
     
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  7. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    If the republicans had this much evidence on Hillary over Benghazi, as there is on Trump over Ukraine,... she would be in jail right now.
     
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  8. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If you ask them, they had 10X the amount of evidence, but the swamp swallowed it up or something.
     
  9. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    I think an investigation on Benghazi and Hillary needs to be opened.
     
  10. ABM

    ABM Happily Married In Music City, USA!

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    Afterall, who is government? Oh, and don't forget about those pesky Libertarians. They may be on to something.
     
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  11. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    Maybe its not that we don't care but we are tired of the presumed labels just like the title of your thread?

    instead of asking why we don't care? How about asking first if we do care?

    This is the type of accusational conversation starter that prevents me from even wanting to participate, because i know nothing positive will come from it when the introductory title is an accusational slam in its own right.

    that goes for both sides/parties.


    If i wanted to know why dems support hilary for example, i wouldnt ask” why do dems support that vile lieing ****?

    Or “what is wrong with the people that support Hilary?”

    just my opinion....
     
  12. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    Perfect.

    Another example.
    Why don't Dems care about border security? They did in the past.
     
  13. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    Because for me at least, I think it's a made up issue used by Trump to gin up the base.

    And it worked. Where's the hordes that were supposed to invade us? Oh, right, the election is over so that issue is over. The wall was just a device to get him to remember to discuss immigration on the campaign trail.
     
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  14. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you are being unfairly grouped into the mass majority of Republicans here, but unfortunately, as informed by the Senate and the news stations and Republicans I know, asking Republicans if they do care instead of why they don't might come off as uninformed. Or just plain sarcastic. I know one single Republican who broke with Trump from the get-go (for all the reasons) and I respect him so, so much for putting country before party. But he is the only one. Also it's much harder to phrase the question the way you're asking (see ahead).

    But it's nice to know that maybe you do care. Or I'll ask the question so you can see how weird it reads: Do you care that Donald J. Trump has committed impeachable offenses? Haha. I feel like a robot.

    As for the Hillary thing. I don't believe I'm alone in saying: enough about Hillary. Hillary isn't President. Few people wanted her to be President, they were just faced with a very, very tough choice. And she's not pertinent to the discussion.

    It might be a subconscious push, or just plain lashing out, but the topic of the day is Trump's impeachment and why the Right doesn't take it seriously, or SEEM (that's for you OB!) to care. Bringing up all these other things smacks of a cornered dog... No offense, Sly.

    BUT, I'm always down to address things. Border Security. Of course, border security is important to everyone. And it is an issue. Mostly because it is a humanitarian crisis. I think what's happened is the ship is tipping so far towards the inhumane that you're seeing an outpouring of "Holy shit, I'd rather let them all in rather than pen them like pigs or tear their children away or make them sleep on concrete floors or make asylum seekers live in unmonitored camps on the Mexico side of the border where they are regularly kidnapped and ransomed or...."

    The Statue of Liberty bears the words of an Emma Lazarus poem titled The New Colossus. It's not law or anything, but it's worth a read since I think it reflects America's once-view on immigration:

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
     
  15. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    maybe it is just me but the way you phrased the question i would take as a respectful question that deserves an honest, mature answer.

    The hilary comment was to show the opposite side, so its very relevant regardless of her current governmental status.

    i think my point is, and i said it goes to both sides, is the attacking accusational comments to try to initiate a mature discussion will almost always fail. You need look no further than this forum to find evidence of this.

    people respond much better and rationally when they don't think they are being attacked while simultaneously being asked an opinionated question.
    Its just respect. there is no respect from either side.

    Our founding fathers had immense respect for the opposing parties. How and when things changed, I'm not sure, but i know it wont change back as long as ww try to initiate discussions with finger pointing accusations.
     
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  16. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    Uggghhhhhhh. Waiting for my wife at the store so checked back in.

    This illegal immigration denial is why people don't take Democrats seriously. It's literally the top reason Trump will win again if he does.

    I read an article about black AMERICANS getting the jobs at a chicken plant after ICE arrested hundreds of illegals at the plant.

    The plant had to raise wages to attract Americans and they hired a ton of black guys. One when interviewed said he was glad to have the job but he felt bad for STEALING the illegal's job.

    It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something....brainwashing people so much that they feel they stole a guy's job who stole it in the first place.

    Joe Biden will come around when an illegal takes one of Hunter's phony board positions. Until then...fuck us all amirite?

    I'd sieze the fucking chicken plant if I were dictator but whatever.

    Let's not even go into how much work Trump has put in behind the scenes to get Mexico and other countries to actually help with this.

    Then you "liberals" throw up your hands and walk away from our homeless problems and feel fine about yourselves as long as your big democrat shithole city throws millions of dollars as it.

    We need a mashup movie of Idiocracy and Elysium to see what the future really holds.
     
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  17. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Having grown up in the 50/60's I must admit its a bit strange to see younger people embracing social democratic, larger government. The flower children of the 60's were not just anti Viet Nam but anti government for the most part.
    As a libertarian I can stand back and plainly see that a significant third party would help neutralize some of the polarization of the lefties and righties. But even if that happens they both want huge government which I don't think was in the spirit of the founding fathers or really what capitalism is about. We will never be as intended a free enterprise economy but a mixed enterprise economy as the government has gotten much bigger regardless of party control to ever allow for a free enterprise economy with a small limited government. Just my two cents worth...
     
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  18. ABM

    ABM Happily Married In Music City, USA!

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    Dole 'em out....just to clean 'em up....



     
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  19. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    They aren't, but they think they are. It's kind of cute.

    barfo
     
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  20. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    That's kind of the whole point of this: you can't phrase it right. This is about an impeachment trial with overwhelming evidence which is full circle back to the question: how can Republicans just gloss over this stuff? AND not be embarrassed to bring up civilians like Hillary Clinton or Hunter Biden as some sort of evidence or opposite side? There is no opposites here is the point. You and I are on the SAME side. OUR President has many many times broken the law and on this one instance they are impeaching him. He, and others believe me I know, is not on your side or my side, he is on his side. We are America and he is a crook.

    This is where the disconnect lies. Extremes have been reached. So, for example, arguing about Trump to people that aren't under his spell, is almost surreal. He is not a good guy so it's really hard to have a fair debate about him. Or immigration, as another example. They separate children from their parents for months! That's extreme. I personally have a difficult time with the "well, they should've gone through the proper channels and that's what you get" people. I don't think there's ever an excuse for being inhumane. So, it's hard. It's hard on the internet (I don't know why I do it). It's hard in person. Because this is not a debate about policy. It's ideology! Suddenly there are opposing ideologies in the UNITED States. I and the like see the behavior of Trump as draconian and classless and extremely harmful to the fabric of our country, and the other side doesn't and calls us snowflakes or something like that. Compassion and thought over impulsiveness and force, I say, but what do I know.

    I am a reasonable guy, I promise you (sounds fishy I know). And I'm going to say something that is going to piss everyone off at me, but fuck it. The Tribalism that is freaking me out is, in my opinion, the result of this fear cult. I mean, I saw it under Obama, believe me, the Hope stuff. People overjoyed like he was some profound figure. I actually believe that a pendulum swing in the other direction is what we are dealing with, but with each swing, the division grows. It doesn't repair inbetween and that is worrisome. But I digress...

    I don't believe in stuff that a lot other people do. I won't argue about it here because I've learned the hard way that people of faith (for the most part) don't like being poked and prodded and it just isn't worth it. BUT what I've found, for the first time in my life, is that talking politics with the Republicans I know at this moment, the Trump moment, is like talking to believers. It comes down to how they feel! Now the word irony sure pisses people off, BUT it is ironic that the Trump faithful are willing to ignore everything, literally everything for their snowflaky obsession with this guy. "It's a conspiracy" "It's a witch hunt" "It's the (speaking of irony) Swamp" "The Deep (also ironic) State" "Fake News" "Liberal Media" Let's just take that list. The theme here is what? You can't trust your eyes and ears! You must give up your senses to believe this president! You must literally believe that somehow someway the world is colluding to make him look like a criminal and plant evidence and so forth. It's faith, and it's deifying a guy that doesn't even deserve your friendship, let alone your country.

    And I'm speaking for myself here, but I'm sure most Liberals would agree. If Hillary or Hunter Biden or anyone has committed a crime or commits a crime, then they should be investigated and the results should be the results. However, THIS has nothing to do with THAT. But I think this is an important distinction, and kind of harkens back to the culty thing, for me it most definitely isn't people based. If someone is bad, fuck 'em, because the important thing is the system of beliefs not some person in office. And that's what troubles me the most! Why are people siding with a person over the ideas and principles of what it means to be an American?!?
     
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