OT What Went Wrong with US Coronavirus Testing

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by e_blazer, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    The UK, the Nordic States, and some of those it appears to be amping up there too though I think only time will tell if they were able to do better than the US did.
    The other factor is they all have a fraction of the population that the US does.
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerland/
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/

    Norway is probably doing the best so far, but they have a country of like 5.5m people, spread out, with Oslo as the biggest I believe with a population of 700k?

    I have no idea if another administration would have done better or worse. Frankly, you may "believe" another would have done better, and have various pieces of evidence to that assertion, but none of us really "know". I am not at all saying Trumps handled any of it well, but I don't think anyone has, and I'm not sure anyone would have.
     
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  2. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Here's a pretty good synopsis by Politico on what's gone wrong to date from a political standpoint with response to covid-19. Note that Congress has consistently under-funded pandemic preparations.

    As far as your lack of doubt that the problem would be better contained under a different administration than where we are under Trump, I don't disagree for the most part. I do disagree that it would be and order of magnitude less without adequate testing early on. Absent testing and effective quarantine early on, the rapid spread of the disease was inevitable.
     
  3. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    We would be so much better with literally an empty void in his place. He misled people and lied.
     
  4. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    I am pretty sure South Korea has, but they have the experience of experiencing a pandemic before (SARS v1) which we do not.

    As for not knowing - nobody ever knows with certainty anything - but logic dictates, given the information we do have - that Trump has done a dismal job of this, an epic fail - and previous administrations that have proven to be competent in dealing with other tough situations had better resources and preparation - so logically, would have done much better. Simple as that.
     
  5. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I think that's a fair point, but who knows? I believe that FDA was primarily concerned that private sector testing would open up error and potential for fraud. I'm sure that those points would have been raised as objections to pressure to go against policies.
     
  6. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Well there's some fallacy's there though. History doesn't predict the future. I've handled some things very poorly in my life in the past, does that mean that I will always handle similar situations poorly again? I've handled somethings well, does that mean that I will always handle them well?
     
  7. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    South Korea's response was effective because of TESTING. Without quick testing and isolation, they'd be in the same boat as us.
     
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  8. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    History predicts the future a lot better than random events - it's the whole basis of well respected scientific branches and quite frankly, the whole way the modern world works. If you have competent people in charge, understanding past events and their interpretations lead to better results a lot more often than not. If you do not believe that, quite frankly - we have nothing to discuss - it's an axiom of the modern world.
     
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  9. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I have another theory. Genetics, and Immunity. Similar to when the Europeans came to the US and spread diseases that natives had no natural immunities to. I think there is a decent chance that the people of south east Asia have some help in regards to fighting this off naturally, through their immune systems. It might actually show that in the end China wasn't lying about their numbers as much as most of us think they are too.
     
  10. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    So, if we did not waste two months because of lack of intel (incompetent administration) or misunderstanding of the situation (incompetent administration) - our testing could have started much earlier - and the problem would be smaller. I do not disagree with you about the ways to solve it. I disagree with you that the problem would not have been much smaller if we had competent administration.

    I trust a competent administration to do that - regardless of their political leaning. This administration is not competent. Simple as that.
     
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  11. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    History certainly helps to predict outcomes, but does not with 100% certainty predict an outcome. The world is always changing and providing new history and data for us to use for predictions.
    I understand you believe that Trump and his administration are completely incompetent, and that's the basis of your argument.
     
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  12. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Nothing is as simple as you want to make it out to be. CDC operates independently of the Trump administration when it comes to developing tests like were needed here. Read this NYT article if you’re interested in understanding the roots of the failure.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.amp.html
     
  13. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Where did I claim that it was 100% - I specifically wrote that you can never predict the future.

    I do believe that Trump is incompetent - and there is an awful lot of historical data to correlate with this assumption. I did not bring it out of thin air. We also have hard evidence that the previous administration was quicker to handle the Ebola crisis, managed to handle the financial crisis it inherited - so again, there is data to support my assertion.
     
  14. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Bush, Obama, and Trump have handled their financial crisis' in similar ways, bail out their corporate buddies, continue to increase the gap between the ultra rich and everyone else. Throw the common people a bone here or there and spend, spend, spend. So I'd disagree with you about Obama's handling of the financial crisis, they've all sold out the people for corporate sponsorships.

    I personally believe Obama or most other presidents would have handled it better. I don't know that for sure, but yes I'd agree with that assertion. My disagreement if there is one is the notion that this entire thing gets placed at the feet of the Trump administration, it seems like there's a whole lot of blame to go around, and some of that is certainly not all because of an incompetent administration.
     
  15. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    I can't take anything you say seriously if you still claim the trade war with China is unnecessary.

    If this hasn't proven to people that being dependent on cheap crap from China is a disaster I don't know what to tell you.

    I keep up on this and have been complaining for years and I still didn't know how much of our medicine is made by them.

    China isn't our friend.
     
  16. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I suppose you could try to make an argument that a winnable trade war with China would be a good idea, but Trump's trade war as currently fought is unwinnable and therefore definitely unnecessary.

    Is everyone you do business with your friend?

    barfo
     
  17. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    No but if the people I worked with were actively stealing my IP’s, giving me faulty products, and trying to make my business worse off, I wouldnt work keep doing business with them.
     
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  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    What if your competitors continued to do business with those people, and those people were the lowest-cost suppliers? Wouldn't that put you at a competitive disadvantage?

    barfo
     
  19. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Whenever you have an overgrown government with politicians on the take and trying to justify their positions,, you will have incompetence.
    Yep, this admin was late to respond, but their have been past administrations that didn't respond, and cost lives.
    Every State leadership needs to step up their plans for future virus's. Hell, they stock pile everything else to hit budget numbers for new FY budgets, they can hedge some and build up a reserve of medical equipment and, they will. You will see many new re-purposed companies going after State dollars for this very reason too.
     
  20. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So your answer is the same as Trump's: every state for itself, and the devil take the hindmost.

    Might as well disband the federal government if we don't plan to use it for anything.

    barfo
     

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