<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Jul 16 2007, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes. Jordan MADE Scottie Pippen. Without Jordan, Scottie Pippen would've been a mediocre player in the NBA, but Jordan made him a star because it freed up so many shots on offense, and Jordan's dedication on defense helped Pippen because he didn't always have to play the other teams best guard. Jordan never had Shaq. Do you know how HUGE having a "Big Man" in this ERA...it's starting to be phased out now, with more athletic forwards such as Bargnani, Dwight Howard, Bosh, and Amare, but back in the 90's you needed a Shaq, because there was Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, etc.</div>Jordan didn't make Scottie Pippen. Scottie Pippen was not a star because of his scoring, but rather his passing, rebounding and defense. Hell, Pippen's 2 best seasons were without Jordan in the mix. Pippen pretty much always took the other team's best perimeter player, and his perimeter defense is considered by many as one of the best ever, even better than MJ's defense. He was a 6'9'' player with PG handles and court vision. He could grab 8-9RPG. He was an amazing player on the fast break, could shoot the pullup 3, and great at driving to basket.Bottom line is MJ didn't make Scottie. In the 2nd 3 peat Scottie actually helped MJ more than vice versa.
No, do you seriously believe that Pippen would be a HoF player? He had those 2 great years when MJ retired, but after that, it was over. He would've still been an all-star, but the rings came with pip, so did the HoF status. Jordan didn't make Pip a star, he made him a HoF.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l?ckdown @ Jul 16 2007, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, do you seriously believe that Pippen would be a HoF player? He had those 2 great years when MJ retired, but after that, it was over. He would've still been an all-star, but the rings came with pip, so did the HoF status. Jordan didn't make Pip a star, he made him a HoF.</div>Yeah...thats kind of what I was hinting at..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l?ckdown @ Jul 16 2007, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, do you seriously believe that Pippen would be a HoF player? He had those 2 great years when MJ retired, but after that, it was over. He would've still been an all-star, but the rings came with pip, so did the HoF status. Jordan didn't make Pip a star, he made him a HoF.</div>Do you seriously think MJ would have won 6 rings without Pip? No, and out goes MJ's title as the GOAT with it. Pippen would have been a yearly first or 2nd team player, always a candidate for DPOY, and at top or near top in PPG, RPG, APG and SPG at the SF position year after year. Considering that he did lead the Bulls to a 50+ win record without MJ, and was one 4th quarter collapse away from likely winning another title with the Blazers...I do think Pippen would have been a HoF without MJ.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Jul 16 2007, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, I do think MJ would've won six titles without Pippen.</div> Whatever, man....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Jul 16 2007, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, I do think MJ would've won six titles without Pippen.</div>:HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brando @ Jul 17 2007, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>:HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: </div>Lol, good one man!
If you break down their skills kobe comes out superior. Kobe is the most skilled player of all time, there isn't a thing he can't do on the court. Thing that seperates the two is the mental aspect of he game. Kobe is a solid iq player but he still needs improvement.I think if you gave him jordan's team in the 90s he could win you 3-4 rings.In a one on one match up, it really depends on how kobe approaches the game. If he takes long jumpers he'll cool off and lose. MJ can't stop kobe near the rim, kobe would just fade over his head from 15 feet. Kobe has actually mastered MJ's shot and has reformed it to look better. Mj winning 6 rings without pippen is pipe. MJ without pippen is kobe in 2005-2007. Greats stats, great overall player, sub-par records.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Jul 17 2007, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you break down their skills kobe comes out superior. Kobe is the most skilled player of all time, there isn't a thing he can't do on the court. Thing that seperates the two is the mental aspect of he game. Kobe is a solid iq player but he still needs improvement.I think if you gave him jordan's team in the 90s he could win you 3-4 rings.In a one on one match up, it really depends on how kobe approaches the game. If he takes long jumpers he'll cool off and lose. MJ can't stop kobe near the rim, kobe would just fade over his head from 15 feet. Kobe has actually mastered MJ's shot and has reformed it to look better. Mj winning 6 rings without pippen is pipe. MJ without pippen is kobe in 2005-2007. Greats stats, great overall player, sub-par records.</div>No, that's where people are wrong. Jordan COULD win without Pippen OMG it's so annoying from u idiots that you think Kobe would win if Pippen was on his team - Hell, Kobe would ask to be f*cking traded that damn pussy
Uh-oh, this kind of topic brings out Kobe Homers United, headed by the leaders Nitro and Melo. It's gotta hurt though because any way you spin it: Jordan > KobeTHE END
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Jul 17 2007, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, that's where people are wrong. Jordan COULD win without Pippen OMG it's so annoying from u idiots that you think Kobe would win if Pippen was on his team - Hell, Kobe would ask to be f*cking traded that damn pussy</div>He never won more than 1 game in the playoffs without Pippen. When Pippen was down with injuries in '98 the team was a .500 team. Pippen took tremendous pressure off MJ on both sides of the ball, especially on defense (during 2nd 3 peat he was clearly the best perimeter defender between the 2). Who said Kobe would win with Pippen? The only thing anyone said is there is no way in hell MJ wins 6 titles without Pippen.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Uh-oh, this kind of topic brings out Kobe Homers United, headed by the leaders Nitro and Melo. It's gotta hurt though because any way you spin it: Jordan > Kobe</div>Umm, who said Kobe is better than MJ? One person said Kobe was more talented but MJ was a far superior player, and other people say Kobe is a better shooter (which absolutely no one denies, whether it be PJ himself or whoever). You are probably the most paranoid person I have ever met. No one has ever said Kobe is the better player than MJ, and no one even thinks Kobe is top 10 all time. Therefor for you to always be on the extreme defensive whenever Kobe is brought up, always quick to try and play the "Kobe homers" card, is ridiculous.
I'm not saying he would win 6, but he would definitely win 2 to 3 titles. You guy overrate pippen so dam much, it is not even funny.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l?ckdown @ Jul 17 2007, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying he would win 6, but he would definitely win 2 to 3 titles. You guy overrate pippen so dam much, it is not even funny.</div>And you guys are overrating what MJ did without Pippen. He never won more than 1 game in the playoffs without an all star level Pippen, and when Pippen was out for a good part of the '98 season, MJ could only keep the team floating aroudn .500. When your 2nd best scorer, best playmaker, one of best rebounders, and best defender is taken away, that is a lot of production gone. If the Bulls had the same teams they had throughout the '90's, but without Pippen, I don't think MJ would have even won 1 title. If they filled an all star caliber player near him, then I could see maybe 2 or 3 rings. But not 6 like Pippen helped bring them.
that is what I am saying, you put ANY all star player around Mj, he will make them better. Take out Pippen and replace him with a player of similiar caliber, and there will be rings. He made the dam 50 greatest players of all time. Oscar Robertson even said "Beyond the first 10 or 12 guys the 50 greatest players list was about who had the best P.R." Which was true for Scottie. You say MJ couldn't bring his team, Scottie couldn't do it in Portland, he barely did it better. That game 7 choke was nothing? If Pippen played in lets say a Portland for his entire career, he would be an all-star, but not a 50 greatest player of all-time. He had only a few very good seasons, after that when he went to Houston and Portland just shortly after winning rings, it was shown how great he really was. His production went down every year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l?ckdown @ Jul 17 2007, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>that is what I am saying, you put ANY all star player around Mj, he will make them better. Take out Pippen and replace him with a player of similiar caliber, and there will be rings.</div>The only 2 players that were similar caliber at the SF position were Grant Hill and penny Hardaway, both blooming when MJ was well into his career. Pippen was an extremely rare player...a forward who can score 20PPG, run the offense to take much pressur eoff MJ, run the break, rebound extremely well, shoot a high % and defend the other team's best player, allowing MJ to rest on defense at times. It wouldn't have been easy finding a player who would have meshed with MJ as well as Pippen did. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Oscar Robertson even said "Beyond the first 10 or 12 guys the 50 greatest players list was about who had the best P.R." Which was true for Scottie. You say MJ couldn't bring his team, Scottie couldn't do it in Portland, he barely did it better. That game 7 choke was nothing? If Pippen played in lets say a Portland for his entire career, he would be an all-star, but not a 50 greatest player of all-time. He had only a few very good seasons, after that when he went to Houston and Portland just shortly after winning rings, it was shown how great he really was. His production went down every year.</div>MJ won ONE game in his entire career in the playoffs without an all star caliber Pippen. Pippen got team to over 50 wins and a 2nd round appearence without MJ, and was the leader of the Portland Trail Blazers that almost knocked off the greatest dynasty of this era. I am not saying Pippen is a better leader than Jordan, but don't knock Pippen's impact on the game.If Pippen was on the Blazers, he would have likely been more successful statistically than with the Bulls, especially under the Adelman offense. He would also have had a great chance at a ring, playing next to fellow 30PPG scorer Clyde Drexler.Of COURSE his production dropped...he was getting old, played 7MPG less and injuries were catching up to him!! MJ's production dropped in the 2nd 3 peat as well. But when Pippen was in his prime, he had his best seasons without MJ, averaging 22/9/6/3 on 49% shooting, leading team to 55 wins.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Jul 18 2007, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, that's where people are wrong. Jordan COULD win without Pippen OMG it's so annoying from u idiots that you think Kobe would win if Pippen was on his team - Hell, Kobe would ask to be f*cking traded that damn pussy</div>Kobe could easily win with pippen on his team. Pippen is a top 15 player of all time. He can score, rebounde, creat and facilitate all while being an elite defender. Kobe can do that but it takes a toll on him. If all he had to do was score like MJ did later in his career his effeciency would go higher and the lakers with the same roster as the bulls had 3-8 would win 3-4 rings.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l?ckdown @ Jul 17 2007, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying he would win 6, but he would definitely win 2 to 3 titles. You guy overrate pippen so dam much, it is not even funny.</div>Agreed.Pippen is soo overrated.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Jul 17 2007, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Agreed.Pippen is soo overrated.</div>explain why....
