Zombie The Next Siakam? Don't Sleep On Zach Collins.

Mi think alot more goes into it when looking at it in the aftermath.

What info was available on what players?

there are just so many potential scenarios that it really seems pointless because im pretty sure for every scenario tossed out there showing NO as inept, im willing to bet a scenario could be played out that he did the best with what he had at the time of the pick.
Hindsight is always 20/20. And thats why looking back in that manner is basically useless.

we all could have made better decisions at some point in our lives but then what other good decisions wouldn't have come into play if the first decision was made correctly... in the aftermath.
Im not saying dont discuss it but im saying knocking NO in this way will be taken with a grain of salt because every Gm can be scenariod out showing the whiffed on stars.


Im with kj. Seems useless to me. But then one mans trash is another mans treasure, so im not judging. Just commenting.

 

This is a message board for fans. Nothing here has any "use" or influence. Should we all just shut up and go away?

 

bullshit. I use all of you guys’ valuable knowledge to hedge my vegas bets.
Some discussion is certainly not useless to me! Lol

again. You are comparing apples to oranges. Of course. Discuss all the useless stuff you want.
But when trying to push back on a narrative while using scenarios of what ifs on the past isn't going to influence many.
So when he says hes pushing back. Then it would help to push back with legit scenarios that cant be turned back the others way is all.
You guys are being a bit extreme to me. Kj said its usless to discuss this and you guys turn that into we shouldn't discuss anything at all???

And to play more of a devils advocate, its okay for someone to point out a scenario that could have happened but its not okay to point out an opinion of that scenario discussion being useless?

im sure kj will say discuss whatever tou want but don’t expect people to take it seriously if scenarios that can be twisted many ways are going to be used to prove a point is all.


I think all kj is saying is if your going to make a point, don't use a scenario that could be flipped around a hundred times.

 

OK, maybe I am being a tad prickly today!

 

im NEVER that way. Whats your prob? Haha!

 

And I fail to see how talking about the drafts where we didn't have a pick achieves that

 

I've already explained why I listed it before. But in case you missed it: when GM trades away a 1st round draft pick they are implicitly saying what they are trading for has more value than the pick. Olshey gave up a first and when that first rolled around Pascal Siakam, Malik Beasley, Caris LeVert, Dejounte Murray, & Malcolm Brogdon were all available. And the pick, plus Will Barton, were traded for 28 games of Arron Afflalo

that goes directly to "draft evaluation"...it's practically part of the definition

 

I have to admit....I lost the track of what your were trying to say.

I mean, for instance: "What info was available on what players?"...my answer would be the info every GM should be responsible for having. That's draft evaluation right there

and: "Hindsight is always 20/20. And thats why looking back in that manner is basically useless." I'm sorry, but in my opinion, that's total abject nonsense. Hindsight is invaluable. We have no other way to evaluate decisions than from hindsight. If you're slicing an onion, and slicing toward your hand, and you cut the shit out of your hand needing stitches, the next time you slice an onion you could make the same dumbass mistake if you don't apply hindsight and cut away from your hand.

if your brother-in-law gives you 3 stock tips, you buy every time and lose money, the next time your brother-in-law has a stock tip you will slap the shit out of him, justifiably....hindsight

if you eat fried eggs from a market in Oaxaca and get food poisoning, you wont eat eggs from a market in Oaxaca again. That's hindsight I personally paid to gain

if your wife and her sister are in your living room and they ask you which one of them has the better hair, you turn around and run away. That's both hindsight and survival instinct. Never answer a question like than...even under torture

If you're a GM and you use a process that tells you Martell Webster has a better future than Chris Paul or a process that tells you Meyers Leonard could be an all-star, then for chrissakes you need to use hindsight and shit-can the processes that led to those decisions

in other words, I think saying "hindsight is 20-20" is a useless bromide...sorry

************************************************************

when I listed those draft results I was talking about each draft, in and of itself. I wasn't gaming future events that would spring from a different choice. It was only something like Draymond Green is better than Meyers or Giannis is better than CJ, or Abedayo is better than Zach

now it you guys are saying that in 2013 if the Blazers had taken Giannis rather than CJ then the subsequent years would have been much different, I have no argument with that. For instance, in 2016-17, Portland would have been better than the worst team in the playoffs, so they wouldn't of had the 15th pick to trade for Zach. They would have almost certainly have had the 20th and 26th picks though and a pick in the 20's to add to them

and if Portland had a Dame/Giannis duo this season, they'd be a lot higher than fighting for the 8th seed. Hell, they might have another championship by now

 

but, if the other teams were picking in portlands place when zach was still on the board, who says they don't have him ranked above those that were left whom they ultimately chose?

 

huh?

 

Pick ten regardless of team has Zach rated BPA for the majority of teams, the process projects him as better than those chosen later how can any GM justify not taking him at 10? This statement is conjecture only of course.

 

I think he is the next Anthony Davis actually, so good!

 

Yeah! And Eliot Williams is just one rehab away from being the next Kobe!

 

Zzzzzzzz ... huh? Wha? Sorry, did someone say something about Zach Collins? I must have been sleeping.

 

Total trash

 

tl/dr

yes info on players then vs now. The gma didnt have the info you now have when they drafted....

sorry i didn't read the rest. Just too long and my opinion is this debate is as useless as going back and assessing the drafts based on today's info to grade the gm. most of the other gm missed on every scenario you play out as well. So i guess there are very few gm’s that will hit your criteria.

We shall agree to disagree on the significance or irrelevance of your dissection of the past drafts.

 

Barkley said Collins is “going to be a star for the next 10 to 15 years.“

 

I take it you are not a fan of learning from past mistakes?

 

i am. However the mistake must be clesrly defined. Reviewing past drafts will never be clearly defined because of all the x factors of redoing the draft.
Every gm misses most of the time. Or all drafted players would become all stars.