Exclusive Zach Collins - An In-Depth Discussion

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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  2. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Ha, at first I thought you were trying to have an in depth conversation about Zach Collins on here...was about to say "good luck with that".
     
  3. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Haha. Had to counter the Zach-bashing threads.
     
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  4. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I think Zach is ok, but the Blazers need a forward who can help run the offense. Since this started with the Draymond comparison defensively, offensively while Zach's a better shooter and has better footwork in the post. He really needs to be a better ball handler and passer. I think what Draymond really does for GS is allows their guards to play off the ball where they cant be keyed in on as much. If they want to start Zach then that's fine to me, but the other forward's gotta be someone who can create/run the offense. I don't think Hood, Ariza, or Melo is that either. So it's not so much Zach in a vacuum as it's the forwards in general for the Blazers need someone they can trust with the ball. I think @hoopsjock mentioned, Zach needs to work on his handle, and his hands in general, I'd agree there.

    Also, you guys have definitely gotten better over the last 5-6 months.
     
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  5. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    My first reaction to "Zach Collins" is...overrated.
    Has never really shown the consistent ability (1 game?) to do.......anything.
    Not a fan.
     
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  6. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

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    I like Zach a lot, but it would be a risky plan, given his injuries, to pencil him in for starters minutes next season. I'd feel better going into next season with an established veteran player at the 4, and Zach backing up the 4 and 5.
     
  7. perkinsfor3

    perkinsfor3 Well-Known Member

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    This is why I'd be extremely happy if we'd somehow would be able to sign Harry Giles. He fits the mold. Then again, with our luck in the injury department...
     
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  8. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    You can be disappointed in his production so far, but "never shown the consistent ability to do......anything" is just hogwash. He showed (18-19) that as the 5th option on the team, he puts up decent #s. People seem to think that because a player in another system puts up good #s, it means they will in Portland.

    let's take, for example, the other Collins. He got the 2nd most touches (before he missed games) on his current team. Same with the year before that and it's highly unlikely JC would be averaging 14-15 shots per game in Portland. In Portland, they have CJ, Dame, Nurk/Whiteside and Anthony. It's doubtful JC would be putting up those #'s based on the pecking order.

    Not saying that ZC would be putting up the same #'s, but people tend to forget roles.
     
  9. Buffalo Custard

    Buffalo Custard Well-Known Member

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    <groan> Everybody is going to make excuses until we excuse ourselves into another Leonard contract, aren't we?
     
  10. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    You're right.
    He has shown the consistent ability to foul.
    So, there's that.
     
  11. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Yeah thats what I tend to think, we need another rotational PF, someone who can start if needed.

    Zach had injury history but Nurk as well. We need another big who can start if one of them is out half the season.

    If we get an awesome PF even better, then Zach can be the C backup and a few minutes at PF if he deserves such. Maybe Zach could succeed some as a starter next year, but he certainly isn't entitled to any sort of such role.
     
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  12. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    that he has. But what about the other aspect I addressed?
     
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  13. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    Lost interest after reading "5th option.."
    That is at best, all he will be, based on what I have seen for what seems a Meyers Leonard-like eternity.
    Plus, you elude to a "JC" and I'm not sure who that even is.
    So, my apologies for not addressing.
     
  14. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    John Collins.

    My point is that people are upset that the 5th player on the offensive chart isn't producing the same as someone who would be the 2nd or 1st on their team. And thinking those #'s would translate to Portland too.
     
  15. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    I see.
    Well, I have never thought to compare Zach with anyone.
    I'd just like to see him make an IMPACT PLAY......Just once....
    Block a last second shot......Get an offensive rebound, DUNK it and get fouled, then actually convert the free throw....Make a crunchtime 3....
    Do something...Anything....
    Your 5pts and 5rebs and 5 fouls make me sick.
    Sorry man, I rooted for Meyers Leonard for 8+ seasons....
    I aint doin' that again.
     
  16. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    wut? why not?

    Melo averaged 13.5 shots and he had a crappy TS% of .525. It's weird to suggest JC couldn't get one more FGA a game than Melo when JC has a TS% of .659. If Blazers had JC that very likely wouldn't have Melo

    as far as Collins vs Collins, so far:

    FG%: Zach .444....John .571
    2ptFG%: Zach .504....John .615
    3ptFG%: Zach .324....John .369 (JC shot 40.1% this season)
    FT%: Zach .722....John .757
    eFG%: Zach .498....John .604

    PER: Zach 10.8....John 21.0
    TS%: Zach .528....John .634
    FT rate: Zach .232....John .304
    OffReb%: Zach 7.2%....John 11.0%
    DefReb%: Zach 17.1%....John 22.9%
    TotReb%: Zach .444....John .571
    Assist rate: Zach 7.1%....John 9.3%
    Turnover rate: Zach 15.2%....John 11.8%
    Steal rate: Zach 0.9%....John 1.0%
    Block Rate: Zach 3.1%....John 3.2%
    Winshares: Zach 3.9....John 16.4
    Winshares/48: Zach .069....John .158
    Box +/-: Zach -2.6....John +1.1
    Value Over Replacement: Zach -0.4....John +3.9

    all those categories and Zach didn't win a single one; not one. John even had a higher block rate than Zach. Isn't that supposed to be one of Zach's strengths?

    yeah, John Collins has had more opportunity, but almost all of those categories have nothing to do with volume or usage. Besides that, JC posted those numbers playing against opposing starting units, While Zach spent a lot of time on the floor against 2nd units. And that JC has had that kind of opportunity against starters and has still posted excellent efficiency is impressive

    I get that people like Zach and want him to succeed. I hope he succeeds too. I'm just not nearly as impressed with his alleged potential as many here are. He'll be 23 in 2 months and has played in 174 NBA games; and he has had consistent opportunity in those games. He hasn't had his playing time jerked around like a lot of young players do. That's a resume that means the 'he's young and inexperienced' excuse is wearing really thin. John Collins is only 2 months older than Zach. Jaren Jackson is 2 years younger. Bam Adebayo is only 4 months older.

    to this point, Zach has had less impact for Portland than Mo Harkless. To suggest he's close to the level of John Collins, except for some circumstances, seems a real big stretch
     
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  17. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    seems pretty certain at this point....he's one of Olshey's guys and those guys get overpaid
     
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  18. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Then I don't know what to respond with, because while he's not a star, he has made impact plays.
     
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  19. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    The comparison was defensively with Draymond/Bogut to Collins/Nurk. It took both of those guys a couple years to figure things out defensively too.

    As for offense you can just flip the two. Nurk can have the offense run through him. It would be nice if everyone could but I don't necessarily think you need both bigs to be able to.
     
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  20. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's fine to not be high on Zach but to say he's never made an impact play is just wrong.
     

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