Bogus! Peace in the Middle East

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Shaboid, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    @UncleCliffy'sDaddy, you are missing one CRITICAL fact.

    In 1946-48, the Palestinians were offered a 50-50 split of the land with Israel. Their Arab neighbors told them to reject it, and that they would run the Jews off the land after statehood, so there was no need to compromise. So the Palestinians, by and large, voluntarily left, banking on the promise of Egypt, etc.

    Obviously it didn't go down that way. The Palestinians could have had a state in 1948, just like Israel got one, and lived side by side in peace. But as usual, as they say, they never miss a chance to miss a chance.

    They also could have gotten a state at Camp David under Clinton in 2000, where they were offered 96% of the West Bank. Arafat was too chicken to take it (worried he would be assented like Sadat.)

    So, no, sorry, the Palestinians are not victims. They had at least two very legit chances to get statehood and rejected both.
     
  2. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    And one more time ! The Jews voluntarily left Gaza in 2006 or so - gave it back, lock, stock, and barrel, only now it was full of farms, industry, homes, etc.

    The Palestinians blew it all up. Literally.
     
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  3. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Isaac & Ismael - brothers from another mother!
     
  4. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    seems the accords that have been signed have managed to unify the two Palestinian governing factions but brought no security to either of the regional combatants.

    Jerusalem Post [​IMG] Middle East
    Decrying normalization, Palestinians warn of Third Intifada
    https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/decrying-normalization-palestinians-warn-of-third-intifada-642378
    Palestinian protests against the normalization agreements between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain could lead to an intifada, Palestinian activists warned on Tuesday.
    The warning came as Palestinians held protests against the “treacherous” agreements in some parts of the West Bank. The protests, organized by several Palestinian factions that are part of a new group called the Unified Leadership of the Popular Resistance, were held under the banner: “Normalization is a crime.”
    Palestinian protests against the normalization agreements between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain could lead to an intifada, Palestinian activists warned on Tuesday.
    The warning came as Palestinians held protests against the “treacherous” agreements in some parts of the West Bank. The protests, organized by several Palestinian factions that are part of a new group called the Unified Leadership of the Popular Resistance, were held under the banner: “Normalization is a crime.”
     
  5. ABM

    ABM Happily Married In Music City, USA!

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    Sure beats hearing about ISIS, etc., though. Wouldn't you agree?
     
  6. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    I did admit that the whole thing was convoluted. And I completely forgot(?) about the Palestinians “all or nothing” tantrum. So yes, you are absolutely correct. The Palestinians willingly gave up victim status. But my point was (I think) that Israel isn’t exactly the victim they have portrayed themselves either.....
     
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  7. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    I would have to say that the recent Israeli administration have certainly gone further to the right for sure, but given the continuous refusal by the Palestinians to compromise - that is only a natural reaction (even if an unwelcome one).

    Anyone that decries the Palestinians horrible situation (and it is, there are many that suffer there) should understand that a lot of it has come by their own leadership's hands.
     
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  8. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    You are 100% correct. I went to Jerusalem, and then the West Bank (Ramallah) to speak about 5 years ago. The overwhelming sense I got at that point is that the Israelis were horrible neighbors, bullies, controlling. The Palestinians may not be victims historically, but that they are under the thumb of a thuggish bigger state next door is undeniable.

    The trip completely changed how I look at Israel.
     
  9. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/saudi-arabia-has-enough-uranium-22698903

    wonder if we will sanction the saudi's?

    Saudi Arabia 'has enough uranium' for devastating nuclear weapons programme

    Geologists have identified reserves that could produce over 90,000 tonnes of uranium from three deposits in the centre and north-west of the country, according to a Chinese survey.
    The potential reserves have been identified at three deposits in the kingdom, according to a Chinese report. One expert said it would be “well in excess” of what a few power plants would need.
    Mark Hibbs, senior fellow in the nuclear policy program at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace, told The Guardian: “If you are considering nuclear weapons development, the more indigenous your nuclear program is, the better.
    “In some cases, foreign suppliers of uranium will require peaceful-use commitments from end users, so if your uranium is indigenous, you don’t have to be concerned about that constraint.”
    China began prospecting work in Saudi Arabia in 2017, as part of a nuclear energy co-operation agreement, and finished at the end of the last year.
    Bruce Riedel, from the Brookings Institution, said the Saudis were “aggressively pursuing the prerequisites” for an energy or weapons programme based on the latest report.
     
  10. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  11. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    saw that this morning. Remember this though? mattis' resignation was because of this.

    Dec. 19 -- Trump shocks lawmakers, Pentagon officials and world leaders when he announces on Twitter that he is withdrawing all 2,000 U.S. troops out of Syria. “We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency.”

    Later that day, Trump posts a video to Twitter saying "we have won against ISIS.”
    Pentagon’s response -- Caught off guard by the president’s announcement, officials only say that the military campaign against ISIS is continuing “at this time.”

    Hours later, the Pentagon releases a four-sentence statement saying the coalition “has liberated the ISIS-held territory, but the campaign against ISIS is not over.”
     
  12. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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  13. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    In related news, Trump female staffers in the White House earn only 69% of what their male counterparts make. Worse than the national average.

    barfo
     
  14. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    I love it when sarcasm does not require green font......... :clap:
     
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  15. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    maybe they job share?
     
  16. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    I'll give you an example of how hard their life is under occupation: To get to Ramallah, I had to be in an armored State Dept. SUV. Three of them in our caravan. Heavily armed. We had to go through three Israeli checkpoints to get in there (it was about 30 minutes from Jerusalem.) No Palestine could ever go the other way.

    Then I met this incredible young woman. An entrepreneur who was creating a geothermal power system for her country. Only, the thing was, she had to live in a refugee camp of 45,000 an hour away from the city, and took the bus in every day. Even when its done, she can't export the technology without Israeli approval because they control all ports.
     
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  17. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    So basically, they’re treating the Palestinians like the Germans treated them. Almost sounds like the Warsaw Ghetto......
     
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  18. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    Exactly. It was creepy. It was like, 'you become what you resist.' As a Jew, I was really offended and surprised.
     
  19. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Not an apt analogy imho. The leaders of the Ghettos never intended to eliminate the countries they were situated in - which is exactly what the Palestinian leadership advocates for.

    I am not going to pretend that there is not a lot of suffering inside the Palestinian territories because there is, and there are a lot of innocent people that suffer - but I think that what happens there is another example that when you have bad leadership - it is often your own people that suffer (something that the USA is experiencing as well at the moment, to a different degree).

    Basically, we have here a situation of war between 2 entities - and no willingness for compromise (from both sides it seems, but Israel at least showed in the past that they were willing to. Honestly, I think that the ones that really have to take the first step now are the Palestinians and accept that until they are willing to accept a 2 states solution - there is no reason what-so-ever for Israel to relent).

    It's not like I have a solution, but frankly, until both sides are willing to compromise, nothing will happen. It's that simple, unfortunately.
     
  20. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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