Around the NBA - the 2020 Playoff Edition!

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SlyPokerDog, Aug 15, 2020.

  1. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,904
    Likes Received:
    14,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Jerami Grant is getting more than the MLE and I think that's all we'll have because I'm predicting we keep Ariza besides even if we let Ariza walk I still think we only have 10 million in cap space which isn't getting the job done either.
     
  2. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,904
    Likes Received:
    14,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Okay, I liked Bam coming out of the combine, I thought he would do really well in the NBA... I'm sure if we looked through my posts you would see something about it. Olshey obviously had a higher draft grade on Zach. If you grade the Bam pick in retrospect it's easily an A+ but if you grade Zach it's still an incomplete, don't get me wrong I don't think it will ever be an A+. Olshey got the fucking 10th pick wrong but it's the 10th pick, GMs get that shit wrong all of the time and @AldoTrapani I've already posted for you all of the 10th picks in the last 20 years and most were misses and a ton of them had guys even better than Bam after them. We didn't get Bam, we have Zach, get the fuck over it!

    Take a look at these draft grades

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717322-2017-nba-draft-grades-for-every-pick

    https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/nba-draft-grades-players-teams-76ers-lakers-celtics

    https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/22/16047058/2017-nba-draft-grading-the-picks-8302d41fac87

    https://sports.yahoo.com/2017-nba-d...4BHJOdJ9C375EWSg0kz8iKBIUx3Qzrq7ysojWuXW9CMRZ

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...tracker-live-picks-analysis-grades/420430001/

    The point is everyone had our pick graded better than Miami's. So not only did they think Zach was a good pick at 10 they thought his value at 10 was better than Bam's at 14. I bet you didn't even know who Bam was in 2017 and if you did I bet you didn't moan and groan and hate Olshey over the pick then... so you shouldn't be hating him over it now. It's ridiculous!
     
  3. Buffalo Custard

    Buffalo Custard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    1,413
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I understand your point, but I just can't agree with it. A pro making a 7 figure salary should be better than a bunch of fans. (and that includes some of the articles you cited) Small market teams need to excel in the draft to make up for their natural disadvantage in free agency.

    Incidentally, do you believe the story that Olshey locked in on Collins after seeing him play only once? I don't know if it is true, but if it is, I have no qualms about fans judging Collins after 3 seasons!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  4. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,904
    Likes Received:
    14,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think that nitpicking about a tenth pick is just ridiculous. I don't like Olshey, I think he is too dogmatically loyal to "his guys" and he hurts the team in many ways... drafting Zach wasn't one of those egregious ways because everyone and I mean every GM that has ever done it has missed on picks and Zach isn't even a miss at this point. Neil has missed both times drafting in the bottom third of the first round with Swanigan and Ant but lets look at his overall draft history. Olshey's first draft he got CJ, Crabbe and turned Jeff Withey into RoLo, that's pretty damn good. His second year Neil turned Rondae Hollis-Jefferson into PatCon and Plumlee eventually turning Plumlee into Nurk, very impressive. Next year he got Layman at the 47th pick, again a good value pick. Zach and Swanigan were picked the following year, I'm not willing to call Zach a bad pick (virtually no one knew about Abedayo and Mitchell, those were almost universally considered stretches) I will call Swanigan a bad pick. The next year he picked Simons and Gary, in retrospect those picks should have been reversed and Olshey was and probably still is way way way too high on Ant but wow was Gary a great pick. Last year Nas fell to us and we snatched him up, I am sure he will be seen as great value at the 25th pick in the near future. Neil is bad at making big moves happen but the draft is something he's pretty damn good at.

    Edit: Those journalists aren't a bunch of fans they're paid experts maybe not at the GM level but they're professionals not amateurs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  5. stampedehero

    stampedehero Make Your Day, a Doobies Day Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,443
    Likes Received:
    9,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Part Time Building Inspector
    Location:
    NJ
    The finals are going to be won by the Lakers. We have no choice.
     
  6. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    18,866
    Likes Received:
    19,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have a choice to put an Asterisk * by it though. Because you know if Portland had won it they sure would have.
     
    stampedehero likes this.
  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,385
    Likes Received:
    21,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    ...or they could be the Iverson Sixers - heroically winning the first game and then losing out. Or maybe that's what WE were in round 1...
     
  8. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,385
    Likes Received:
    21,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    I know people are making fun of him because he doesn't play, but he DID play for the regular season. Spoelstra used him and Kendrick Nunn as regular season placeholders to give his stars rest. Surprisingly brutal of him to give both of them ZERO minutes in the playoffs. I'm sure he sat them down and explained it to them, but Nunn in particular has to feel butthurt after he was THIRD in voting for rookie of the year (way ahead of Herro, for example).
     
    Cugel likes this.
  9. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,385
    Likes Received:
    21,978
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    It's not often I agree with you, so I'm going to say it explicitly: I agree with you. People seem to side entirely on the "nature" side of the nature/nurture debate (if you need a refresher on this, watch Trading Places) at least when it comes to players. And, sure, there are cases where you should: LeBron James would've been LeBron James wherever he ended up. But I think for most players, it really matters what environment you put them in. This is why people are still mad that we traded away Jermaine O'Neal. But I think Jermaine would never have become what he became without going to an environment where the GM totally believed in him and was ready to coddle him.
    Same thing with Adebayo: he didn't show he could pass at Kentucky, and I bet most teams wouldn't have given him the green light to pass and he would've ended up looking like Derrick Favors or something. Now, MAYBE Stotts would have used him the same way (after all, Stotts brought out Mason Plumlee's passing ability when it wasn't evident in his previous stops) but maybe not.

    (There are plenty of examples of "right fit" players, but perhaps the most glaring is Boris Diaw, who looked like a total non-entity until D'Antoni got hold of him.)
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  10. trailblazer18

    trailblazer18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,067
    Likes Received:
    4,954
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Spoelstra is so underrated, at least from the narrative out there. Very highly rated with all the players around the league though.

    I think I'm finally on board, let's find our Nick Nurse or Spoelstra, time to move on from Stotts. Good run, just time to go.
     
  11. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    34,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Investment Management / Financial Planner
    Location:
    Lake Oswego
    Props to Butler and the G- League/ Rookies. That is doing a lot with not much.
     
  12. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,591
    Likes Received:
    16,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why underrated? Most all round ball junkies know he's HOF material now already....
     
  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,712
    Likes Received:
    32,572
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not convinced that Nurkic and Bam couldn't play together. I'm also not convinced that Zach is some great fit next to Nurkic. Zach is lost if he has to go out and defend all the SF's filling in as PF's because he doesn't have the mobility, at least not any that I have seen yet. And if you have two front-court players on the court who become defensive liabilities on the perimeter, you have issues in the modern NBA. And that's before accounting for the guard defense

    as for Nurkic being Bam in the proverbial 'next year', sure, in some ways. Nurk is definitely a better rebounder, although some of the gap is because Adebayo plays out on the edges more. Nurk is probably better at post-up offense, although he sure needs to not brick so many shots at the rim. Nurk is also better equipped to use mass to defend post-up

    but Adebayo is a lot more versatile on both ends of the floor, IMO. He's a better passer at this stage, and he's actually capable of ball-handling and dribble-drives outside in. He makes a lot of good passes off his dribble. On defense, Bam can defend the paint very well, but just as importantly he can defend on the perimeter well too. He has SF-level lateral mobility and quickness and that has high value.

    Nurk and Bam are different players with different strengths and weaknesses. I think Bam has fewer weaknesses at this point, and is certainly more of a modern NBA C. As far as Nurkic improving next year, it's worth noting that he's 3 years older than Bam so I'd wonder which player has more room for improvement
     
    Buffalo Custard likes this.
  14. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    13,539
    Likes Received:
    10,874
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    un-retired
    Location:
    Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Ukraine
    Because signing CJ to a huge contract should never be part of the plan.
     
  15. AldoTrapani

    AldoTrapani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    8,748
    Likes Received:
    2,541
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bam is way better than Nurkic let alone Zach Collins lol it’s not even close..

    Bam is not only younger than Nurk but this dude was even voted to the All Defense team. Nurk would never even sniff that
     
  16. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,591
    Likes Received:
    16,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We will see just how good Bam is against the Lakers....Who's he going to guard and who's going to guard him?
     
  17. ehizzy3

    ehizzy3 RIP mgb

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    9,966
    Likes Received:
    6,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Hillsboro/Bogotá
    Did you guys see that Malik Beasley was arrested Saturday for possession of marijuana AND stolen property (guns). Apparently someone was brandishing a gun towards a car parked in front of his house

    He’s not being charged for some reason, but if he really did have a stolen gun he’s gonna be fucked for the next season
     
  18. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,591
    Likes Received:
    16,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Head Case!
     
  19. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,712
    Likes Received:
    32,572
    Trophy Points:
    113
    just a bit of trivia:

    Denver took Beasely with the 19th pick of the 2016 draft. This was Portland's pick they acquired in the Afflalo trade

    they took Beasley when Caris Lavert, Pascal Siakam, and Malcolm Brogdon were available. The next season they drafted Donovan Mitchell but traded him for Trey Lyles.

    in other words, the Nuggets could have Murray, Donovan Mitchell, Jeremai Grant, Pascal Siakam, and Jokic in the starting lineup with Milsapp, Plumlee, Porter and Harris coming off the bench
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    PDXFonz and kjironman1 like this.
  20. trailblazer18

    trailblazer18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,067
    Likes Received:
    4,954
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Maybe he isn't, but he seems to get left out of conversations or is just an after thought many times.
     

Share This Page