<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 25 2007, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And why does that matter in the Eastern Conference? Hell, you surely don't need every single player in the lineup scoring for you. If that was the case, the Spurs wouldn't have the rings they have now. They haven't had a good scoring center to play alongside Duncan since David Robinson...not to mention Bruce Bowen isn't the best on offense either.</div>Everyone in the Spurs lineup has some offensive capabilities. If you're talking about Bruce Bowen, he can't drive or shoot mid range shots, but he is an excellent shooter from the corner, so he is in fact not a bad option.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jul 25 2007, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Who cares? The Nets don't have an offensive threat after Krstic, I just don't see the big deal.</div>It is a big deal, because the guards/SF's will have to do almost all of the work on offense when Krstic is off, and they wouldn't have a good option to go to downlow. It definitely hurts their offense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (junot111 @ Jul 25 2007, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>raptors are better.nets players are awfully old</div>No one on the Nets will decline this season..<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>raptors on the other hand, had young players last season and not only that but they made so many transactions and had a team that had barely played any games together made the playoffs shocked everybody and were pretty close to beating the nets in the playoffs. and raptors players are very young so as time goes by, the raptors players get BETTER.nets get worse.</div>They were not pretty close to beating the Nets in the playoffs. The Nets beat the Raptors in 6 without Nenand Krstic and with a very inconsistent Vince Carter chucking up a shot every 10 seconds. Also, the young Raptors european players won't blosssom and start averaging really solid numbers, they will continue to improve slowly.Also, we're talking about this season not a couple years down the line.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>and ALSOu guys are making a big deal out of your new acquired players but dont forget we got the leagues best 3 point shooter.</div>I don't get why Raptors fans think Jason Kapono is the best three point shooter in the NBA. He shot 50% because he got a ton of open looks from Shaq and Wade.
All the Raptors need is development, their main 3 players for the up coming season are Bargnani 21, Bosh 22, Ford 23 and then we just surround them with great role players like Parker, Garbajosa (missed the playoffs), Kapono, etc...One thing I hate is when people make the arguement that Wright, Williams and Boone are also developing, sorry to break the news to you but none of those 3 are anything special to go bragging about. If I were to say the Nets are on a decline...their top 3 players are getting old and are either in their prime or past it and their bench and young players are nothing to go crazy about. The Raptors on the other hand have a young core destined for greatness and the only way to go is up from here on out. If I were the Nets I would be more concerned about Boston and the Knicks catching up rather then contending with the Raptors.
This is a very hard decision to make. I did pick the Raptors to have the 2nd seed in the East in my predictions, however. I love alot of their players and I think they will make huge strides. I think Chris Bosh's ceiling is even higher than where he's at, and I love Andrea Bargnani. If everything fell into place I could see Toronto cruising through the division.Then again, if Kidd kept rolling for another season, Krstic back from injury, Jefferson and Magloire back tom playing at their peaks, and VC being non-injured VC... the Nets could be very formidable.I'm going to stick with Toronto though, because I just love the nucleas they have. There's really no right or wrong on this question.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MosDefinitely @ Jul 26 2007, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If I were to say the Nets are on a decline...their top 3 players are getting old and are either in their prime or past it and their bench and young players are nothing to go crazy about. The Raptors on the other hand have a young core destined for greatness and the only way to go is up from here on out.</div>Richard Jefferson is only 27, he's just beggining his prime and won't decline for a good 5-6 more seasons. Vince Carter is 30, that's still in his prime, he showed absolutely no signs of slowing down last season. Jason Kidd is older but still had a great individual season in 06-07, by no means will he slow down a great deal this season. Also, we're specifically talking about this season, so the fact that the Raptors are young and set for the future doesn't make them a better team in 07-08.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If I were the Nets I would be more concerned about Boston and the Knicks catching up rather then contending with the Raptors.</div>By no means will Toronto dominate the division next season. The Celtics, Knicks, and Nets are all capable of having a better season.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>This is a very hard decision to make. I did pick the Raptors to have the 2nd seed in the East in my predictions, however. I love alot of their players and I think they will make huge strides. I think Chris Bosh's ceiling is even higher than where he's at, and I love Andrea Bargnani. If everything fell into place I could see Toronto cruising through the division.</div>As I've said before, most young and talented players don't make huge strides every single season. It's a slow process where usually their production will go up a solid amount every season. Not every young talent has a breakout year like Kevin Martin did last year. In the future Toronto will be a better team than New Jersey, that won't neccesarily start this season.
Well, I have only read the first page, and since I am on a TV computer it will take me forever to read through this whole topic. I want to reply to this post though...[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='425893' date='Jul 25 2007, 03:32 PM']We have better chemistry,[/quote]WHAT BACKS UP THIS CLAIM?!? The Nets started off poorly last year because RJ was hurt from the very first game, we had a shitload of new players added to the bench (Moore, Nachbar, Williams, Boone, House, etc...) and it took time to mesh. You kept saying in the debate section that the Raptors got off to such a poor start because of new players and the team took time to mesh...why be a hypocrite and not say the same for the Nets? They won 49 games the year before with no bench whatsoever and virtually the same starting lineup as this upcoming season, so you have no proof here. As I said before, give me the 9 man rotation of Kidd/Carter/Jefferson/Krstic/Magloire/Nachbar/House/M. Williams/Collins over anything the Raptors offer. Your bench isn't that much better than the Nets' bench, and with the Nets' starting lineup so strong, they only need to give 10-15 solid MPG in the playoffs. And Nets have so much more experience, more time to gain important chemistry, and overall more talent, among other advantages. Really? How many of them are RELIABLE, PROVEN and do NOT rely on low percentage shots or Bosh to take pressure off them? Exactly. Nets have 4 guys that can take over games, and none of them need those other players to make the plays for them. This is a huge reason why the Nets won last year against the Raptors. Key word...will. Kidd/RJ/Carter has been an amazing trio for 3 years now (and are a better trio than those 3 ever will). Not sure how Bosh and other players that had injruies last year on the Raptors will hold up, either. RJ had a lingering problem from a few years back and got that fixed last year. Since Krstic doesn't rely on athleticism to score, the only problems I see him facing is shaking off the rust. A few games in preseason should do a nice job of that. Once again, no proof here. 49 games won in 05-06 with no bench and virtually sme starting lineup, and last year if you give the Raptors a pass for their crappy first month, then you have to do the same for the Nets as it was the exact same reason. Outside of Magloire and Sean Williams, the Nets will have the same club this year and everyone will now know their role.And again, despite Krstic/RJ missing a total of 90 games last year, House out for a good part of the year, Nacbar/Moore not getting minutes until January...the Nets still won only 3 games less than the Raptors, and beat the Raptors convincingly in 6 games (blah blah blah Raptors could have tkaen game 6...Nets could have done the same in game 2).
I still think the Raptors will lead the atlantic this season, look at the team 1 through 15 they the deepest team in the division by far and are built for a great season. By playoff time who knows.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TJFord11 @ Jul 26 2007, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I still think the Raptors will lead the atlantic this season, look at the team 1 through 15 they the deepest team in the division by far and are built for a great season. By playoff time who knows.</div>The Raptors core is still not nearly as strong as New Jersey's. Toronto is still young and has been in the playoffs for only one season since the Vinsanity era, while the Nets are more experienced and have been a perennial playoff team since Kidd got there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 26 2007, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Everyone in the Spurs lineup has some offensive capabilities. If you're talking about Bruce Bowen, he can't drive or shoot mid range shots, but he is an excellent shooter from the corner, so he is in fact not a bad option.</div>I wasn't primarily talking about Bruce Bowen, I was mainly speaking of Fabricio Oberto and Elson. By your logic, they're both so horrible and too much of a liability on the offensive end that it gives the opposing team the advantage on that side of the ball. Oberto and Elson individually produce not that much more offense than Collins has with the Nets. They know their role and both teams have had enough success with them in the lineup.
How am I supposed to back this up without saying that all of our guys work amazingly well together, and almost all are unselfish and great passers. How else do you think we were the 4th best team in the East during the regular season without any 2nd option, and just an average defense? I wish you would stop making that excuse, because Richard Jefferson still did very well at the start of the year. I think he got like 17 ppg on 50% shooting, so his early season injury did not faze him at all. You think you guys had a shitload of new players? How about us? Let's see here....Our new players were....TJ Ford, Fred Jones, Anthony Parker, Juan Dixon, Jorge Garbajosa, PJ Tucker, Kris Humphries, Rasho Nesterovic, Andrea Bargnani and Uros Slokar. You guys had it tough? 3/5 of our players had never, ever played together...and it didn't take us THAT long to get it going. Well, you guys had 5 new players, we had about 10 or so...Pretty big difference there.And yes, you guys didn't have very good chemistry until the very end of the year. Uh...I thought this was about our bench...? I'd personally take Jose Calderon, Juan Dixon, Joey Graham, Jason Kapono, Carlos Delfino, Andrea Bargnani and Kris Humphries over anything the Nets have to offer...Once again, we've been over this, and I strongly disagree with you. We have so many offensive weapons on our bench, and you guys have Nachbar and Eddie House. Our backup PG is sooooo much better than yours too. Experience is overrated. Our team last year was almost as inexperienced as you can get, and we nearly won 50 games, and seemed to pull through in almost every close game last year. How do you guys have "more time to gain important chemistry?" And talent could be argued. Maybe the best 3 players, but besides those guys you aren't that talented. Okay, sorry that our guys off the bench are talented young players and not old dudes that have been playing since the 80's. My bad, I wasn't aware that bench players had to be experienced to be effective on the court. How many of your bench players are offensive scrubs? The biggest reason that the Nets won was because we played like sh*t...and we still made it a close series. Congrats, you'll always have that memory of beating us when we own the division for the next 8 years. You can't permanantly fix injuries. This isn't Harry Potter. How many players have surgeries, and then never have injury problems again? You can't say that RJ isn't in danger of being injured, because anyone who plays the grueling 82 game season has a pretty good chance of sustaining an injury. I don't know if you've noticed, but this is 2007. Things change, and even you said it. The Nets have alot of new players, and it's not the same team that they had in 05-06. It wouldn't really be fair to give the Nets a pass for their crappy 3 or so months...It's not the same thing. And how well did they do last season? I don't really care if they're going to have the same roster...Whenever we had key injuries, we pulled through it and we were still able to win games. We had our best player out for 15 or so games, and we still managed to win. Key players like Garbajosa and Bargnani all missed significant time. It didn't faze us. It just shows the depth and heart in our team, and we were able to pull through. Injuries happen, get used to it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Experience is overrated. Our team last year was almost as inexperienced as you can get, and we nearly won 50 games, and seemed to pull through in almost every close game last year. How do you guys have "more time to gain important chemistry?" And talent could be argued. Maybe the best 3 players, but besides those guys you aren't that talented.</div>Experience is overrated when it comes to the regular season. We've seen many teams that hadn't had a winning season in so long finally do well the next season. Experience matters in the playoffs, where the NBA's best and seasoned teams pull it all out and come to play. How many of the Raptors' starters have seen serious time in the postseason? Last year was the first time for many of their players and that is why they didn't pull it off. And don't come at me with the Warriors/Mavs crap because Don Nelson knew Dallas like the back of his hand and he is a great coach.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 27 2007, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Experience is overrated when it comes to the regular season. We've seen many teams that hadn't had a winning season in so long finally do well the next season. Experience matters in the playoffs, where the NBA's best and seasoned teams pull it all out and come to play. How many of the Raptors' starters have seen serious time in the postseason? Last year was the first time for many of their players and that is why they didn't pull it off. And don't come at me with the Warriors/Mavs crap because Don Nelson knew Dallas like the back of his hand and he is a great coach.</div>We are a young team, and we'll be great for a long time. I don't really care if we lost in the first round, because it gave us experience, and a learning experience altogether. Now we'll be better prepared for next year's playoffs, and the playoffs after that. It doesn't bother me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 26 2007, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We are a young team, and we'll be great for a long time. I don't really care if we lost in the first round, because it gave us experience, and a learning experience altogether. Now we'll be better prepared for next year's playoffs, and the playoffs after that. It doesn't bother me.</div>OK, and I agree with that. But that first round of experience doesn't mean that they're a lock to trump someone like the Nets, a team with the majority of its core that have been to the Finals and back, and deep into the playoffs in several seasons. The Raptors have a chance; we don't know what they'll do, but odds are that in a matchup they wouldn't be able to trump a seasoned team like the Nets or the Heat or Bulls.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 27 2007, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK, and I agree with that. But that first round of experience doesn't mean that they're a lock to trump someone like the Nets, a team with the majority of its core that have been to the Finals and back, and deep into the playoffs in several seasons. The Raptors have a chance; we don't know what they'll do, but odds are that in a matchup they wouldn't be able to trump a seasoned team like the Nets or the Heat or Bulls.</div>Actually, I don't think there are many Finals holdovers...maybe 3 or so...? And you can't say that, because you don't always need experience to win in the playoffs. How did the Bulls or Heat finally get to the 2nd round? Eventually, they just played well and kicked ass.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 26 2007, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually, I don't think there are many Finals holdovers...maybe 3 or so...? And you can't say that, because you don't always need experience to win in the playoffs. How did the Bulls or Heat finally get to the 2nd round? Eventually, they just played well and kicked ass.</div>The Nets have Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Jason Collins. And, to answer your question, the Heat finally got to the 2nd round because of their major improvements; they acquired SHAQ for godsakes among other very good players. And it took the Bulls a few years of good drafting and rebuilding to get where they are right now. The Raptors haven't acquired another high-caliber player neither have they done extremely well drafting players on their team (save for Chris Bosh and Bargnani) or signing free agents (I.e. this offseason). They definitely have a few years to go and to mesh and get that playoff experience. Its no doubt that they can possibly win 50 games, but they're not ready to make a serious run in the postseason.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 27 2007, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets have Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Jason Collins. And, to answer your question, the Heat finally got to the 2nd round because of their major improvements; they acquired SHAQ for godsakes among other very good players. And it took the Bulls a few years of good drafting and rebuilding to get where they are right now. The Raptors haven't acquired another high-caliber player neither have they done extremely well drafting players on their team (save for Chris Bosh and Bargnani) or signing free agents (I.e. this offseason). They definitely have a few years to go and to mesh and get that playoff experience. Its no doubt that they can possibly win 50 games, but they're not ready to make a serious run in the postseason.</div>Okay..the Heat were a bad example, I'll admit that. But overtime, young teams are eventually going to advance to the 2nd round...especially the ones that win 50 games and are playing a lower seeded opponent. I don't think it will hurt us again because it wasn't only experience, we just played like sh*t. And we will probably learn from that, and be alot more hungry when the playoffs roll aroun again. Yes, but all of our high calibre players are young, and they will improve. And Delfino and Kapono will be good impacts off the bench, for sure. Well, thank Rob Babcock for our poor drafting. We mesh as well as any team in the league. All of our players are unselfish, except for maybe one or two...and we work very well together. In the 2nd year, we gelled VERY, VERY well. How else do you think we won nearly 50 games without a 2nd option? We worked the ball around, people stepped up when needed, and we just played great basketball.How can you say that we won't make a run in the playoffs? Can you already predict that we'll underachieve? You can't say that..
I think Nitro, noballer, BCB and all the other guys all explained it pretty well, I can't add much to the argument. All I know is the Raptors have one year of playoff experience under their belts, one year doesn't really give you all the experience you need. Look at the '04-05 Bulls, they get on a roll and start winning games as a young team and almost get past the Wizards in the playoffs. Now of course, they didn't do much adding to their team, and what did they do? They got knocked out of the first round once again and knew they needed a few key additions.This Raptors team is a replicate of the Baby Bulls IMO, young team with loads of potential but won't get far until they find that missing piece. They can do all the improving they want over the regular season, but it won't mean squat when they're knocked out by NJ again in the playoffs. Kapono really does nothing other than come off the bench and hit a couple of threes, Delfino is way overrated with the way you guys praise him. He got like, what five minutes a night in the playoffs? That doesn't mean anything, chemistry will keep this team successful but it won't get them deep into the playoffs. The Nets can with a solid lineup and experience. Kidd will the same, Carter will be the same, RJ will be the same, Krstic will return and give them some much needed rebounding help, Magloire will be share time with Collins in order to give them size and strength, and throw in all the younger guys and you got a possible ECF team. I just can't say that about TOR, if Bosh were to go down they would not be a very good team. If Kidd were to go down in NJ they would still battle back because they have done that in the past, same as if Carter or RJ goes down they can overcome it. But I know my opinion doesn't matter because I'm about to be corrected in a few seconds anyway...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 26 2007, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay..the Heat were a bad example, I'll admit that. But overtime, young teams are eventually going to advance to the 2nd round...especially the ones that win 50 games and are playing a lower seeded opponent. I don't think it will hurt us again because it wasn't only experience, we just played like sh*t. And we will probably learn from that, and be alot more hungry when the playoffs roll aroun again. Yes, but all of our high calibre players are young, and they will improve. And Delfino and Kapono will be good impacts off the bench, for sure. Well, thank Rob Babcock for our poor drafting. We mesh as well as any team in the league. All of our players are unselfish, except for maybe one or two...and we work very well together. In the 2nd year, we gelled VERY, VERY well. How else do you think we won nearly 50 games without a 2nd option? We worked the ball around, people stepped up when needed, and we just played great basketball.How can you say that we won't make a run in the playoffs? Can you already predict that we'll underachieve? You can't say that..</div>Oh, they'll make the playoffs of course, that's a given, but I'm gonna keep saying that they're not ready to beat someone like the Nets or Heat in a 7-game series. Like I said, those two seasoned playoff teams know what they're doing; they have pieces that are much much more experienced than the Raptors in terms of post-season play, and one could argue that both of those teams have better talent overall.
