Zombie Fire Olshey

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Fez Hammersticks, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    So just to be clear, you’re blaming Stotts for

    2-3 injured starters
    Signing Melo who plays 0 defense
    Having a back court that plays 0 defense
    Passing on skilled players in the draft in favor of scrubs

    DESPITE all that, this team has been to the playoffs 7 straight. The second longest active streak in the league.

    The reason is Dame, who was Paul Allen’s pick
     
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  2. Fez Hammersticks

    Fez Hammersticks スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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  3. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    If you keep banking on injury prone players you’re gonna have a bad time.
     
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  4. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mean at the moment. I meant in the totality of the Lillard/Stotts era.

    Who told you Paul Allen picked Damian Lillard?
     
  5. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    direct from him. Dame was his pick. Decided on well before Olshey was hired. Not saying NO didn’t like Dame, but that pick was decided on before Olshey. PA was prepared to move up to get him, as well
     
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  6. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I don't know whether it was PA of the Blazer scouting staff, but the 'history' as I know it:

    Portland spent years looking for the PGOTF after Damon Stoudamire. It was an obsession shared by Paul Allen; he even talked about it. They tried again and again: Nick Van Exel, Sebastian Telfaire, Jarret Jack, Sergio Rodriguez, Steve Blake, Dan Dickau, Jerryd Bayless, Andre Miller, Ray Felton. It was rinse-and-repeat thru many failures.

    the Blazer scouting staff had targeted Lillard after his sophomore season at Weber State. Jason Quick wrote about this; so did Chris Haynes IIRC. I saw Chris Haynes on Courtside or whatever one of theos Blazer talk show were called. He basically said Portland was plotting how to get into position to draft Lillard if he came out after his junior year. But Lillard got injured, missed most of the season, and returned for his senior year.

    this may have been the primary motivation behind Buchanan trading Gerald Wallace for that 6th pick

    I think it's pretty clear Lillard was going to be the pick before Olshey ever entered the picture.
     
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  7. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    Almost 90 pages in Fire Stotts and going on 80 pages in Fire Olshey.
    Both started years ago.
    Nothing is going to happen until the team sells.
    That won’t happen until the pandemic is over at the earliest.
    Most likely not until the 2023 season when the arena lease loosens up from its Iron Clad grip.
    I doubt any person considering buying a team would buy it with those kinds of issues in the way.
     
  8. Fez Hammersticks

    Fez Hammersticks スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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    Just to reiterate



    Neil’s M.O. :bored:
     
  9. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    Olshey was still the GM so he still gets credit. If he had a problem with the pick, he would have made his case since it's his resume and legacy.

    Just like the idea of CJ Ellebey was driven by the analytics guys.

    Olshey has a history of drafting really good guards as you can see by now.
     
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  10. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    Olshey would not have been able to overrule Paul Allen, and for that matter, might not have been able to overrule the scouting staff. He'd been in the job less than a month

    that's not to say Olshey disagreed with using the 6th pick on Lillard. I mean, the only PG Portland had at the time was Nolan Smith. That would make any other PG attractive
     
  11. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Agree, we disagree.

    Almost every publication had us finishing between 4th-9th out West with Nurk, CJ, and Collins available. We're 6th right now.

    I would have almost assured you we'd have a losing record given our roster and injuries. If we finish the season 6th, that would be very good all things considered. In my opinion, of course.
     
  12. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    If he made a good case as to why they should draft someone else, it's possible they could have gone with someone else.

    I have no reason to not give Olshey credit for drafting Damian Lillard.
     
  13. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    I meant in the macro of Stotts' tenure. We agree that the Blazers are about where they should be in terms of regular season record this season when taking into account the injuries.

    The problem is we weren't doing much better when we were healthy, right?

    As I've said before, Stotts does better with incomplete rosters than a healthy one. He proves this again to be true. I'll be concerned when we get healthy again.
     
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  14. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    This is incorrect. Dame was PAs pick long before Olshey.
     
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  15. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    The reason not to give him credit is that PA and the scouting staff had decided Lillard was their guy when Olshey was employed with the Clippers
     
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  16. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Good grief, were you following the team at the time? They kept Buchanan's staff on because he was the guy that had determined what the draft would be that year. It was so well documented at the time and an accepted reality that Olshey's first draft was i 2013. Olshey isn't guilty for Meyers but he doesn't get credit for Dame. Olshey was hired thirteen days before that draft by the way. So, please don't give him credit for Dame.
     
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  17. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    That's a great question and follow up point. The "healthy years" are certainly limited, but I would agree the success rate isn't much different. I believe Stotts in near .500 without Dame available even.

    If I understand the point your making, it's that Stotts maybe does above expectations with incomplete rosters but below expectations with a full roster. I think there is a strong case that could be made there.

    Of course, I think in general, our success is at or above league wide results for a team with only one below average height all-star. I'd love for us to get a roster that has the components of a championship contender and then determine if the person holding the clipboard can win with that level of talent.
     
  18. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    So if Paul Allen ALSO wanted CJ McCollum, we shouldn't give Olshey any credit?

    He has to have a DIFFERENT opinion to get credit? Is this how this works?
     
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  19. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    Of course I followed the team. A lot of people were against drafting Lillard. Many wanted Thomas Robinson or Harrison Barnes. I was there. It was far from a foregone conclusion that we were drafting Lillard.

    Olshey's employment is irrelevant. He's a GM. They all have knowledge and info on the players in the draft. He could have been working for another team and still wanted to draft Lillard.

    Wait. Why isn't Olshey guilty for drafting Meyers?

    Olshey was the GM at the time. Of course he gets credit for drafting Lillard. It's his legacy as much as Paul Allen or anyone else. If he wanted someone else, he could have made the case but didn't.

    You can make the argument that we would have drafted Lillard REGARDLESS of Olshey, but to NOT give him credit because Paul Allen wanted Lillard is asinine.
     
  20. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    To take this position a step further. So Olshey wouldn't be responsible for Dame/CJ back court pairing and their contracts either?

    I'm just messing around here but honestly where is the line and who draws it?
     
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