Exclusive Nurk is UNBEAVABLE!

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by tlongII, Feb 18, 2022.

  1. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    If only there was a stat to see how much a player is used on offense. Oh, wait, there is... USG%

    Other than the 2020-2021 season, Nurkic had a larger USG% and FGA per game under TS teams than this year. It's a lot more likely to be a combination of health and contract year and dedication by Nurk that not giving him opportunities...
     
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    there also might be this correlation:

    as a Blazer, in 2017-18 Nurk had his highest FGA/100-possessions (2.3 more than 2nd highest season) and highest usage rate of his career. That season, he had, by far, the lowest TS%, OBPM, and offensive rating of his Blazer career

    now, a big part of that may have been that he was only 23 and has since matured. But still, that a possible correlation that's hard to ignore
     
  3. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Sam Mitchell, after the Portland victory in Memphis: "If you look at the stat sheet closely, the difference in this game was Jaren Jackson. Nurkic took him out of the game. Jaren Jackson spent so much energy and time trying to guard Nurkic, it took away his offense."
    (Jaren Jackson was 2-10 for 7 points in the game.)
    Mitchell's post-game comments start at 8:23 in this video:

     
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  4. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    A big part of his play lately is that Chauncey is running sets to get him good low post position. Terry would feed Nurk by walking the ball up the side of the court then entering directly to Nurk. By that time Nurkic had been pushed out to 15 feet then had to exhert a bunch of energy backing his guy down while giving teams time to double.
     
  5. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    Quite the throwdown on Stotts.
     
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  6. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Yes! Just one of the long list of frustrating things about the Blazer offense in the past.
     
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  7. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Check out how easy (or seemingly just too much work for everyone in the past) it is for Nurk to get a near 100% shot at the hoop. It does take a few passes and player movement by him and his teammates.
    Simons to Nurk, to Josh Hart, to Winslow, back to Nurk.
    Edit: maybe it isn't "easy" but definitely "possible."

     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2022
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  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    that seemed more like a catch-&-shoot than a post-up. Maybe a spot-up?

    according to NBA.com:

    post-up stats: percentage of player's offense - points/possession - percentile:

    Myles Turner: 12.7% - 1.16 - 89th percentile (maybe why Portland was interested in trading for him)
    E. Freedom: 15.4% - 1.15 - 87th percentile
    Biyombo: 10.6% - 1.14 - 87th percentile
    Olynyk: 12.4% - 1.13 - 85th percentile
    Jokic - 21.1% - 1.11 - 82nd percentile
    Embiid: 29.6% - 1.08 - 80th percentile
    J. Allen: 14.0% - 1.07 - 77th percentile
    Aldridge: 17.2% - 1.06 - 76th percentile
    M. Harrell: 19.9% - 1.03 - 71st percentile
    Ayton: 21.2% - 1.01 - 68th percentile
    Whiteside: 10.4% - 0.98 - 63rd percentile
    A. Gordon: 15.8% - 0.97 - 63rd percentile
    AD: 17.0% - 0.97 - 61st percentile
    Valunciunas: 27.5% - 0.97 - 60th percentile
    Jaren Jackson: 12.1% - 0.97 - 59th percentile
    E. Mobley: 15.7% - 0.96 - 57th percentile
    Giannis: 13.5% - 0.94 - 55th percentile (thought he'd be higher)
    Ibaka: 13.4% - 0.94 - 54th percentile
    Horford: 13.8% - 0.93 - 53rd percentile
    Robin Lopez: 44.2% - 0.92 - 48th percentile
    Adebayo: 15.2% - 0.91 - 45th percentile
    J. Collins: 18.9% - 0.91 - 44th percentile
    C.Wood: 10.0% - 0.90 - 42nd percentile
    Porzingas: 22.3% - 0.89 - 39th percentile
    Portis: 15.0% - 0.89 - 39th percentile
    JaVale: 10.4% - 0.87 - 35th percentile
    Sabonis: 16.0% - 0.87 - 34th percentile
    Nurkic: 26.7% - 0.85 - 32nd percentile
    Poeltl: 10.4% - 0.84 - 31st percentile
    Vucevic: 17.4% - 0.84 - 30th percentile
    KAT: 15.6% - 0.84 - 29th percentile
    Gobert: 5% - 0.82 - 25th percentile (a bit surprising until I remember he gets a lot of lobs and catches at the rim rather than post-ups)

    I know Nurkic fans don't like it when I post numbers like this, but these are the numbers. This pretty closely matches what I've seen; passes the eyeball test, IMO. Nurk really is not good at posting up and it makes me wonder why people think he should be given more post-up opportunities

    maybe these number should be weighted by frequency or percentage of offense but I don't know how that could be done or even if it would be a valid gauge. And maybe, players like Aaron Gordon and John Collins shouldn't be on this list because they won't be posting up the same people C's post-up. Still, it's post-up offense

    Nurkic was worse last season in post-up; only in the 17th percentile. So he has 'improved' but his efficiency in post-up still generally sucks. he shouldn't be posting up as much as he is. He's much better in the PnR where he averages 1.19 ppp vs 0.85 in post-up. He's in the 68thmpercentile in PnR. Not elite but at least it's in the realm of decent efficiency

    I want Portland to re-sign Nurkic, if for no other reason that they don't have any good alternative. I don't want them to re-sign Nurkic for too much money and right now I'd draw the line around 15M/year. He is simply not the defensive force he was before he broke his leg, and that was nearly 3 years ago. It does seem to be a balancing act keeping Nurkic happy with his role on offense. But this season, as in past seasons, he ranks well above the median for C's in FGA rate and usage rate, but below the median in overall efficiency
     
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  9. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    Interesting stuff, but I'd really like to know what is our eFG% on possession where we go to a Nurk post up.
     
  10. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    why do I always suspect sarcasm even when it's not apparent...am I too cynical?

    anyway, at the risk of being woooshed, why eFG%?
     
  11. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    I think maybe Nurk has gotten a bit better at passing out of the post up. I have been noticing teams are starting to double him more when he gets the ball. He seems to be finding an open man more?
    I have no idea on how to actually define that so a stat could be attached but my overall feeling is they have done pretty well with the ball in his hands at the post.
     
  12. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    This is why you post up. And why we should foster those skills in Nurk. If he can get to the level of consistently drawing a double then you have a unique/useful playoff weapon. People can go ahead and point to all of Nurk's obvious flaws but I'm going to go out on a limb and say terry did him no favors and Chauncey will only make him better.
     
  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    speaking of post-up; Blazers as a team

    upload_2022-2-22_18-0-7.png
    upload_2022-2-22_18-0-37.png

    * Blazers rank 23rd in points/post-up
    * Blazers rank 26th in FG%
    * 10th in FT frequency
    * 19th in turnover frequency
    * 22nd in scoring frequency
    * 23rd in percentile

    some other play type:

    * Blazers are in the 97th percentile in PnR ball-handler. That ranks 2nd
    * the 62nd percentile in PnR roll-man which ranks 12th
    * 48th percentile in isolation which ranks 16th
    * 79th percentile in spot-up which ranks 7th

    looking at those numbers, considering how good Dame is in PnR and that the Blazers are elite at it, what they might need is a PnR roll-man, or two, that is elite as well
     
  14. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Easy to point the finger at Stotts on this but maybe there was a bit more to it? Terry originally had one of the very best Big man coaches in the league in Kim Hughes. He was fired for telling the truth in a situation regarding Aldridge by Olshey. Olshey was asked numerous times about replacing him and adding another coach to fill that void and always responded indignant about the issue. Then you have Nurk himself. Not only was he weak with the ball in his hands when he got here he has either been injured or out of sorts due to family and covid issues for the last 4 years.
    The first season of 20 games ended with the first broken leg issue. The second had 72 games where he was playing well and was happy but ended with a worse broken leg issue. Followed by 8 games the next season and a short 37 games due to broken wrist.
    Now Chauncey has him and with no Dame and no CJ and Nurk is a second option with Rogers who is also known to be a good big man coach.

    Seems like around here people love to make Terry Stotts a fall guy and that might be partially true but situations are also involved. Stotts was playing to get as many wins as possible in every season he was here. Nurk was injured a bunch and he still has not made it through a full season here without a major setback.
     
  15. Mr. Robot

    Mr. Robot Well-Known Member

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    @Fairly-Hard

    nurk played 79 games in the 17/18 and was healthy in the 18/19 (72 games) when he broke his leg and hes healthy now too

    broken leg and broken wrist are not common injuries (landing on other players foot & knee to the wrist) and i dont think you can consider nurk to be injury prone due to those specific injuries

    he had two injuries in denver (knee surgery & ankle injury), which are common injuries and those are type of injuries due to which you can call a player injury prone
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
  16. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    So you are saying he had two more "Common" injuries in Denver that affected his numbers as well as a two broken legs and a broken wrist that affected his numbers here?
    This is the very definition of "Injury Prone".

    Sorry. Lets see him make it a season without an injury? It would be nice to see that coincide with Lillard being healthy as well.
     
  17. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Nope. We get to have one or the other, but not both.
     
  18. Mr. Robot

    Mr. Robot Well-Known Member

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    it seems like we disagree on what "injury prone" means
     
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  19. superfly4201

    superfly4201 Active Member

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    His low percentage has to be chalked up to his errant flippy shots, which I see him doing a lot less these days. When he try’s to get cute around the hoop he misses and doesn’t get calls. When he attacks strong his percentage is much higher and gets more calls. It’s obvious Billups has gotten him to listen and it’s paying off.
     
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  20. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    interesting theory, however

    his FT rate, by month:

    October .444
    November .425
    December .466
    January.485
    February .381

    his FG% rate by month:

    October .537
    November .614
    December .533
    January .510
    February .491

    his TS% (accounts for FT's), by month:

    October .596
    November .660
    December .585
    January .559
    February .549

    statistically, I do not see the correlation you do. Kind of the opposite in fact since both his FG% and his TS% have steadily declined since November. I'd think if Billups was getting thru to him about shooting style and errant shots, those two trend-lines would be going the other direction

    his FT rate did climb steadily since November...until the 8 games in February kind of blew holes in the theory. Maybe he'll turn that back around in March. Again though, if his FT rate progression was due to taking higher percentage shots, his FG% and TS% would not have gone the opposite directions of his FT rates...IMO
     

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