Going out of your way to act willfully obtuse cracks you up? In the history of the game, are there any two quality players exactly alike? When comparisons are made, it's because there are aspects of a player that remind you of another. sure both arrived into the league very skinny. Coordinated, skilled, long/tall, deadly outside shooters would be a few others. Obviously you're not into having an honest discussion so whatever dude STOMP
it's hard to take anything you say seriously about holmgren when your two comparisons for him are KG and KD. Sorry.
I get what you are saying, but I still don't see the benefit of comparing a great wing player to a projected center. Maybe I'm being too simple minded, but on the off chance we wound up in the top 3 I would want to know a realistic projection of how well Holmgren will be able to score and defend against the league's elite centers.
I don't think he'd normally be defending at the 5 position, which makes comps difficult, and makes everyone yell at each other. I think most who like him envision him more as an elite team defender, who should kind of play free safety in a way. Not locking down a guy 1 on 1, but being able to stray off of his man because of elite length and protection.
And I don't want to get yelled at for comparing him to Garnett. I'm not. But I think how they were used positionally could be similr through their careers. Garnett played most of his time his rookie year at the 3. Then would play it sporadically, but quickly shifted to primarily a 4/small ball 5. And then ultiamtely, a 4, but modern game 5. I think everyone laughed when Cleveland decided to start Markannen at the 3, but that looked relatively successful. And he's slower than Chet is. I really don't know what to think of Chet personally. He just looks so damn goofy that right away you want to discredit. But I think I can see him at the 4 right away and filling a role, for any team.
I wont be laughing. I just want to guage peoples floor/ceiling with these guys. But Chet fans seem so hellbent on projecting HOF guys as comps while completely dismissing potential issues that could send him closer to his floor. Hell i (prolly foolishly) compared murray to melo.
It reads like you've haven't seen him play. He's got very good form on his J and shoots a high percentage from deep. His J is good both catch and shoot and off the dribble. He's coordinated and can dribble very well for a guy his size. He can drive and finish with either hand. I expect he'll post up a little when he's got a clear mismatch, but he'll start his NBA career on offense primarily on the perimeter. He's very skilled. I don't think anyone sees him as a post up 5 and don't think there will be many wings who can contest his J... who could on today's Blazers? Eventually when he fills out he will probably be called on to guard some 5s, but hell Durant does that too now. These days teams try to switch everything on D so versatility and team D play are highly valued. Those are strong suits for Holmgren which I expect to get much better at as a pro as his body develops with age, nutrition and weight training. Offenses run one high pick and roll after another to get the matchup they seek which is why big lumbering traditional 5s like Nurk have a hard time staying on the floor... teams continually go at him. Not many Bigs can stay with a Chris Paul or Ja Morant when iso'd on them, which is why Bobby Portis is now a starter while Boogie Cousins comes off the bench. Fwiw, below is a draft profile link for Chet which goes into more detail on his game... guess who they compare him to? https://www.nbadraftjunkies.com/chet-holmgren STOMP
To be clear, I am just expressing an opinion. I'm not insisting other fans should agree with it, nor am I denigrating you or anybody else. That said, if we lucked into a top 3 pick, I would only want Holmgren if he has a decent chance to be the best center in the draft. If his future is at PF or wing, I don't see him as the best prospect, and certainly not the safest. If you disagree, that's cool. Just as an aside, I miss the days when all the top prospects participated in the combine. I would love to see how he does head-to-head against the other top big men in speed/agility drills and so forth.
You're overthinking it. KD doesn't get pushed around, and it's not because he's a great scorer. Dude didn't have Jae Crowder equivalents posting him up at will. Dude could still rebound. It's a foul to push someone anyways. The comparison is in the "too skinny" narrative and people overfocusing on it, not on play stay.
I'm tired of your condescension. You're the one trying to imply that there's conferences in college that are comparable to NBA basketball, while also taking "The WCC is good this year" as meaning its comparable to the NBA, which is obviously a complete misinterpretation. Guess what, no conference is comparable to the NBA. Most big conference teams have one, maybe two guys that'll play in the NBA. Plenty have none at all. So I don't know what the hell you're on about with the "you're better than this".
But KD did get pushed around for the first few years (by pushed around I mean backed down to a point that the PF could use a drop step or spin move or just get a point blank layup with Durant too far under the hoop to block it) and that's why they had him defending SGs. The reason why KD could do that was because he had and has elite athletic ability and while for a C Chet's feet aren't slow, he's not Keven Durant level quick or fast or Kevin Garnett level either (they had KG on small forwards for the first couple of seasons). He might be on the athletic level of early KP but I'm still not even sure he's that quick and fast, he might be a level below him. I don't know all of this stuff for sure... I mean it's pretty obvious he's not the athletic freak that either KD or KG were/is but he might be on Porzingis' level or even better. Let's hope if we're in that range that we get him in for some really good workouts where our coaching staff and front office can evaluate that about him. It's also important that we get what he weighs at this point because if it's still 20 lbs lighter than KD and KG and 30 lbs lighter than KP, that's not a great sign unless he's showing better athletic ability than all of those guys. I just think that if I said that he was a for sure bust I would be jumping to a huge conclusion but I also think that those of you who shrug off his bust potential are jumping to a pretty big conclusion yourselves.
The game has changed. Can’t really pencil people into positions these days. The post up game is almost non existent. Its not the mid 2000’s where every team had a legit 6’10” banger PF that they could throw the ball into and clear out. It’s outside-in these days, instead of inside-out.
that's very true, but unless an opponent has a couple of traditional PF's at the top of the rotation (which almost no team has), a forward absolutely needs to be able to defend both PF's and SF's. I just don't think it's credible that Holmgren can defend PG13, Kawhi, Butler, Tatum, Ingram, etc. Or even Giannis or Durant or Siakam. He's very likely going to have to float between PF & C, and there are very few guys like that having an elite impact
I am not an expert on this subject at all, but the NBA player I think Chet reminds me of would be Bol Bol. Skilled, just not strong enough to do anything about it against NBA grown men. I fear, as he currently is, he will get manhandled and foul out within 15 mins.
This is the problem I have, like @wizenheimer I don't think he has the speed to cover the better forwards in this league and like @Wade Garrett I don't think he has the strength to even float between PF & C because that means he's a post player and while he can definitely block shots and rebound he has to have the position to do those things which just like with his limited athleticism covering good perimeter players will be a problem for him, getting position in the post against even guys of average strength down there will probably be something very difficult. Like I've said a bunch of times, he seems like he could be a lot of fun to watch if I'm wrong about the foot speed which is definitely possible but I sincerely doubt that I'm wrong about his strength. We'll just have to wait and see. People who break this down a lot more than I have who think he's the best prospect in the draft, despite the fact that I watched ten of his games his freshman year and have watched video of him in every game, I doubt I know more than them but if they're just shrugging these very real concerns about his possibly detrimental combination of lack or strength and average speed and quickness for an NBA center which is too slow for a modern PF by saying the NBA is now positionless, then I think the guy could be a real bust despite so many knowledgeable people thinking otherwise.
The concerns about Holmgren's strength (now and the future) by blazekor and others is more than reasonable. Holmgren's foot speed (IMHO) looks like it crosses the threshold for a PF. The guy just isn't a center. The best comp for Holmgren? A worse shooter and not as good on D ... is Pokusevsky for OKC. [Full disclosure: I hoped the Blazers would draft Poku.] Poku's upper body is likewise narrow but also has handles, passing, awareness; I figured he could work on his shot and D skills. However, based on movement both on D and in space, Poku has significantly better lower body strength. His gait looks good. Stronger. He'll have to work on core strength, overall, but he's showing some promise for OKC. Holmgren? The bust potential lingers around his name due to one significant factor. I still like him better than others except for Jabari Smith. Holmgren can become the "Star-version" [and much better rounded player] of Chris Bouche who did two things dang well for the Ducks -- block shots and hit corner 3's.
If OKC drafted Holmgren, is it more probable that they move on from Poku or try and play both guys? I wonder if OKC would let go of him for a future 2nd + cash considerations. Not sure how they feel about him at this point, but I still like him as a prospect if we couldn’t get Holmgren but want to bank on someone’s potential.
