Trade Hart/Winslow/Didi/Keon/pick or CJ/Norm/Nance/Roco?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SharpesTriumph, Apr 18, 2022.

?

What would you rather have?

  1. CJ, Norm, Nance, Roco (bird rights)

    24 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Hart, Winslow, Didi, Keon, MIL pick

    36 vote(s)
    60.0%
  1. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    They have someone other than Grant targeted I would guess?
     
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    LOL, yeah right....if Portland would have traded CJ for the Lakers pick when they were 9th seed in the West, which they were at the time, guys like you would have gone just as batshit as you're going now. At the time the Lakers were 12th in the lottery and the Pels would only own that pick if it was top-10. You guys would have been screaming about not getting the Pels pick instead.

    and what makes you think that Cleveland would have preferred Powell over LeVert? Cavs wanted to get bigger in the back court. LeVert did that, Powell wouldn't

    by the way, at the trade deadline the Cavs were 3rd seed in the east, and were tied with Utah for the 7th best record. Their pick was either the 23rd or 24th
     
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  3. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    you really need to step away from this and take some deep breaths. You're insulting a lot of posters here with that kind of statement

    I don't look at the trade deadline as a major fail, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. I would have liked to have seen a better payoff for the outgoing assets. But the only 'reports' I've seen about other offers have been for CJ (Hawks & Mavs) and those offers were not as good as what Portland got. I don't care how many times you and others assure me there just had to be better deals to be had, because, I'm not believing it till I see proof

    if those deadline deals were a major fail, which they weren't, only about 9% of the failure was Cronin's (science); about 17% more was bad luck; and 74% of the failure was Olshey's for assembling such an expensive dead-end-of-purgatory roster while mortgaging and obligating 9 years of first round picks. Sometimes you beat the shit out of your car when you're backing out of a blind dead-end alley at a bad angle.

    I know I've been over-the-top in my reactions sometimes, but the 10 week tantrums some of you are having are crazy
     
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  4. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    How we looking with out them my man? I'll take 3rd place and the early playoff exit every season.
     
  5. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Because of these moves.....I don't think we sniff the playoffs for another 5 years.
     
  6. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    OK, I get what you are saying. You wanted another Dame scenario where a team gives us 6-10 for someone like NP (and his 75 million dollar contract) or Roco and his ending contract, while we take no money back. I guess it is possible, although I am just not sure why someone would want them. (not sure Clipper fans even want them now)

    Either way, you are talking about picks down the road. When you said "desperately" I took it as more of "helping us now". Hell Keon helps us more now than one of those future picks.
     
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  7. KeepOnRollin

    KeepOnRollin Well-Known Member

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    This one will be fun to look back on.
     
  8. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Lol. I'll be shocked if we don't make the playoffs next year.

    Does hurt our chances at advancing though... We need to hit big in draft.
     
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  9. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    You guys are right that my language was way too strong and I see how it was insulting. I apologize. I'll say it the way I should have. If anyone doesn't see Cronin's trade deadline deals as coming up short then I have to question whether they are being real with themselves or just don't quite get it. I also realize that we are coming off of Olshey who constantly made moves that came up short and then was condescending to everyone about it. Cronin's personality while maybe not suited for the tough game that is being the ultimate decision maker when building an NBA roster, is refreshing when compared to Olshey's. I think that's why a lot of people are giving Cronin the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve it because he's not Olshey (both doesn't have the long history of bad moves and doesn't have the attitude that most of us couldn't stand).

    The thing about Cronin's deadline deals coming up short is that they should automatically have us moving on from him as a candidate for GM or at the very least if he were to become the GM it should make it requisite that he have a more shrewd person above him as Pres of Basketball Ops. I don't think you should win a job you don't have yet by even marginally screwing it up on an interim basis.

    I don't think acting like a mom and pop business when in fact your a multibillion dollar organization is going to attract any free agents and I think inherently when you're worrying about these guys feelings you are almost certainly missing out on opportunities unless you get really really lucky. Obviously we can't count on getting lucky, in fact no one in their profession can rely on luck but it does seem to be something Cronin is fond of or maybe he thinks he's earning good karma and maybe some in here do too but I don't buy into that. Fucking people over has negative consequences and people will point out that logical sequence of actions to prove karma but as far as the universe repaying our team because we've been unlucky or are extra nice, that's not something that in my limited perspective I see as realistic.

    I also don't think we need to care about Dame's feelings so much. If the best deal sent CJ to a destination that is less than desirable to him (there's no NBA team in a place like Siberia) then we have to take that deal. Same with Norm. Same with Dame for that matter. The only obligation a GM has is to the team and doing whatever makes the team the best it can be. Obviously a GM shouldn't go out of their way to fuck over their players but all of this feel good shit that I've been hearing about from this team for over a decade now and the hand ringing about exactly what Dame does or doesn't want has, in my assessment, seriously hindered our ability to compete. That's not Dame's fault, that's the fault of management.

    Did taking jack shit for Clyde end up with us landing a big time free agent? Does anyone really think that what CJ and Norm said about the team taking care of them will land us any impact free agents that wouldn't come here anyway? I personally think it makes us look like amateurs.
     
  10. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    We're not going to get free agents regardless. However, it may help you build good will with the guys you trade for, or who are already here.

    And if there weren't better offers, why not play that aspect up?

    I simply don't believe we took back a lesser offer for CJ or Norm. I've seen no evidence to suggest that. And I don't believe Cleveland had anything we wanted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
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  11. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    And its not just good will with the players its the agents and you never know how pay back can happen.
    I do think the ownership should either give Joe a vote of confidence and give him the job or bring someone else in and not a week before the draft.
     
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  12. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    np...I know you are worked up about this. And I'm certainly familiar with rhetoric getting away from me

    now, about Cronin: I've said before and I'll say again that I'd prefer a more experienced GM in charge of the draft and the off-season. I'm really worried about him being so locked onto Grant that he trades a top-7 pick for him...and I don't think Grant is worthy of it generically. It's even worse for Portland in that it's their first top-10 pick in 9 years. It really needs to be a home run and that's not Grant. At this point, the most I'd hope the Blazers pay for Grant is that Milwaukee 1st + the TPE. I'd prefer Bledsoe used rather than the TPE too

    I'm not going to go back in and detail all the components of the two deadline trades. That's been done over and over. Another thing done over and over is the vague debate about what better deals Portland could have made. Some people like the return on the real deals a lot more than others, obviously. Again, I'll say I thought the return could have been better but the gap between the could-of-been and what was isn't that big. And a lot of that is operating from hindsight while anticipating cooperation from the other teams. Those are questionable gauges.

    I am very happy that the Blazers are off the 7 year treadmill they were trudging on, and won't be extending it to an 8th year. I was less enthusiastic about this year's Blazer team than I had been for years...lots of years. Olshey-vision bored a giant gaping hole in my Blazer fandom. I don't believe the Blazers lost anything of value but they did gain an opportunity to re-set the roster. Paying CJ-Powell-RoCo-Nance for their role-playing talent had the Blazer trajectory flat-lined

    The darkest cloud on the horizon for me is ownership. I do not think the Blazers are well-served by the Vulcans. I don't think the Vulcans give a shit about the team as long as they can continue to rake profits. Maybe we should cll them the Vulgerans
     
  13. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Well, we’re probably not going to see eye to eye on the CJ trade, but at least you have to recognize that the Blazers obtained a $21M non-simultaneous trade exception as an asset as a result of the trade. If Cronin is able to use that in conjunction with a pick to obtain a player we need, the CJ deal may look much better in the long run.
     
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  14. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    So you think a healthy roster of

    Dame
    Ant
    Hart
    Winslow
    Nurk

    wouldn’t get us to 3rd and the playoffs?
     
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  15. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Does Dame know how little faith you have in him?
     
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  16. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I worry we're going to keep sniffing the play-in games, which is even worse.
     
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  17. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't see any evidence that Cronin made good deals other than that he made them (so they must have been the best he could do).

    Objectively, we got back almost no value. Even as we all like Hart, he's never been on a good (or even decent) NBA team and his friendly contract has one more year on it. If and when he gets a raise, he becomes just another guy.

    In terms of the thinking that it must have been the best we could do: Cronin is a rookie. That doesn't mean he MUST be bad at his job, because sometimes inexperienced people succeed, but he has no track record that gives him the benefit of the doubt and honestly I can't recall him ever being considered GM material. Like Hart after he gets a big raise, he's just another guy.
     
  18. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Well said. I agree 100%.
     
  19. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    Nobody is saying the trade should have happened at that time for the Lakers pick instead of the Pels pick.

    IF the Pels pick did not convey because they ended up making the playoffs, the logic that the Pels may have made the playoffs instead of the Lakers should have been considered. If Cronin would have had something like the better of the Pels or Laker pick, then the Milwaukie Bucks 2025 as the fail safe, you wouldn't see nearly as much bitching. I still wouldn't have been ecstatic, but I would be indifferent and more willing to see what Cronin might do this offseason. Just the same as if the Pels didn't make the playoffs and we got their pick.
     
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  20. HoopsFanAZ

    HoopsFanAZ Well-Known Member

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    I was going to quote what some of you responded with, but I'll keep this short -- I like who the Blazers had, but the forward position was fundamentally flawed in trying to make up for a short SG who played at one end (and played well). I prefer the successful TANK to get the (currently) 6th pick -- a FORWARD the Blazers haven't been able to sign or trade for AND have used picks in the attempts to do so. That tank doesn't happen without clearing the decks ... and a loss of talent. Hart, Ingles, and Winslow are useful players. Getting the Milwaukee pick is disappointing as hell, but I'll take that asset regardless. The Draft Lottery followed by the draft and offseason ... are just HUGE.

    [This year is not the Spurs all-time, tanktastic job of an injured Robinson and getting Duncan, but it'll have to be good enough. And what should have been a Tank job after LMexit with Dame, CJ and cast-off, marginal starters was a failure but a success story that then got better with Nurkic and a year in the WCF.]
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
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