I believe you. Like I said that definitely should have been on their list of things. What I worry about is that even higher than character and social skills, the Vulcans had price and convenience at the top of their list of qualities they wanted in a GM. It's not inconceivable that Cronin took a deal that wouldn't be taken by more experienced executives or executives with a bigger name and it's also not inconceivable and this is unfortunate, that the Vulcans just didn't want to put in the work to find the person who was undeniably the best candidate for GM of our team. It's honestly the same concern I had with that first trade being made so quickly. It wasn't that our front office wasn't trying but that they were so intent on getting under the tax that they took what they could get the quickest, so they could set up the CJ trade which because of getting unlucky and not mitigating just how severely luck could impact us, turned out to be a disaster as well. But hey, I don't think it was a disaster for Vulcan, that trade saved them a ton of cash this last season and going forward. I guess one of my biggest concerns is what Cronin's balance is as far as who he works for. Obviously the Vulcans are his employers but does he only care about making them happy (which would be scary because I don't think they give a shit about winning a championship) or does Joe also feel that in some way he has a responsibility to this fan base. Is he driven more by the need to please his bosses or to win?
If Cronin is like most people, he is most worried about what is in his best interest. This would likely entail doing as much as you can to make your boss happy without totally ruining your resume. I'm guessing very few GMs put "responsibility to the fans" high on their list when deciding what transaction to make.
It seems like the Blazers aren't even trying. Giving the job to someone who's worked his way up through 16 years of mediocrity (or worse) rather than even LOOKING for someone who can be better.... ugh. And while it's great he's aligned with Billups, I don't think it's a good idea in pro sports to base your management on an unproven head coach.
"He wanted to set eyes on Cronin because of a March day in 1994 in Denver, Colo. It’s when Billups was a high school junior, and he led George Washington High School to its second consecutive Colorado Class 6A state championship. The star on Horizon High, the opponent, was a burly 6-foot-6 center named Joe Cronin."
They're basically the same age. So clearly, no, Cronin wasn't alive in 1988. Because he looks so young...
I have a random thought and question, and I'm doing this without reading the rest of the thread... But what if they said no to that contingency and they said take this current trade or nothing at all. Would everyone have been okay with still having CJ here? What would the narrative have been had they not traded CJ at all? It's revisionist history, yes, but I ask because the alternatives could have been declined and this was the best we could get. (Which in my opinion, this is better than having CJ and get out of that awful contract). I was mad the pick didn't convey, but we don't know what contengicies he tried for either so it feels weird to blame him for not having contingencies when he very well may have, but was rebuffed. And this is coming from a guy who still hates the LAC trade, but that was about timing and optics lol.
Let's be real here. When was the last time a player even as close to as good as CJ is actually wanted to be a New Orleans Pelican? All this talk about his contract and him not being an All-Star goes out the window when you consider what having a player of CJ's caliber CHOOSING to want to shoulder the responsibility of being the face of THAT franchise. That kind of move is invaluable to a team that is used to losing good players the minute they have the power to force a move (CP3, AD, Lonzo). Griffin's job was on the line. They found a team more desperate than the Blazers! What were they going to do if they passed up on a player like CJ choosing them? Trade for Eric Gordon instead? The CJ trade not only saved Griffin's job, but may have saved the franchise from considering moving in the next couple years. CJ has since embraced the Pelicans more so than any player in their franchise history. So yeah, I would have absolutely called their bluff if they said the offer they agreed to was their final offer. There was still 3 days until the trade deadline. Eric Gordon would've cost them a 1st. CJ is better than Caris Levert and he got traded for a 1st and a 2nd which ended up being the 31st pick. Griffin just a few months prior had given up a 1st for Devonte Graham. They had a shit ton of draft capital (still do). The Blazers threw Larry Nance into the deal on top of that. But no, some of you want so badly to believe that Cronin did the best he could and that CJ had such little value that they couldn't even get a backup in the scenario where they made the playoffs over the Lakers? Cronin himself said that they left value on the table to get CJ and Norm to destinations they wanted to play for and to do right by them. His own freaking words, but no, let's continue making up narratives that Cronin was lucky to get the offer he got. Combine that with Jake L Fischer saying that opposing GM's couldn't believe how little the Blazers got and Quick saying other front offices were laughing at Cronin being two other team's MVP and there is overwhelming logical reasoning behind the Blazers getting ripped off. I'm sorry but being a GM in sports can be ruthless and Cronin got taken advantage of.
It's really hard to believe that they would say yes to a trade that would give us that value and with all of the other picks they had, they wouldn't have budged had Joe been able to put the screws to them. So I'm saying that he may have explored better contingencies and been rebuffed but that's almost scarier than the idea that he just rushed the deal and didn't explore it because that would mean that Griffin just bulldozed Cronin. That Cronin got completely out negotiated and schooled, which is a huge problem. Cronin not being able to say, "So if this trade makes you even better, we get penalized? Fuck that!" is a big problem for me. I know everyone is hung up on the supposed deals that one reporter has said were the only others he heard about that were out there but I don't buy it. I have no proof and it's always conjecture but either Cronin didn't ask for enough or when he did he got bullied and both of those options don't bode well for him. That being said, he's now way under the tax and he's no longer just the interim GM so maybe now he will either not be so desperate that he doesn't ask for enough or have the clout to play hardball with these other GMs because if you are right and Griffin just said, "This is the best we'll give you with the only possible contingency being the Bucks 2025 first." and Cronin couldn't get him to budge given the fact that in order for the contingency to be triggered the Pels had to get even better than what was projected, when they had 5 better possible contingencies... that's just getting owned. So maybe an interim GM can't push his way through that situation the same way a real GM can. If this is the best Cronin we can get we're fucked because he clearly took far less value back in both trades than he sent out... it would have been close in the CJ/Larry trade if we would have landed the late lotto pick this year but it wasn't even close with that pick turning into the Bucks first rounder in the season where Giannis will turn 30 and he's locked into his contract through that season.
It's like I just said in the post above this one, I'm just hoping with the clout of both now being the actual GM with a four year contract and having the cap situation well under control Cronin will be able to play hardball with these other guys because who gives a fuck if you're a nice guy who is a doormat for all of these fucking sharks that make it to the GM level? If Cronin is a nice guy, which he seems to be, he has to be a nice guy that can call a bluff and if it wasn't a bluff live with the consequences because there is no way that Griffin wasn't bluffing if Cronin even tried to get better contingencies. As you said, so much draft capital (5 fucking first rounders that would have been better actually six if you count the idea of demanding the better of the Bucks or Pels pick in 2025 if it came to that) there's just no way that it was absolutely the best we could get out of NOLA in the way of contingencies... I'm sure they wouldn't give us the pick without the top 4 protection but not one of those six other options was on the table? If that was even the case Cronin just didn't push hard enough which is a weak weak move.
I have gone on record multiple times that I would've traded CJ for a can of Olives. The fact that we got Hart and a chance at a lottery pick is good for me. I believe in addition by subtraction. moving CJ allows Simons to Flourish and gets his INSANE contract off the books. People harp to much on what ifs, no one on this site knows anything about what happened behind closed doors during the deadline trades. It's all speculation and made up narratives. CJ didn't work, lets move on.
I don't rant on youtube, I rant here. I'm not even ranting if everyone would just stop bullshitting about the trades made in February. They turned out to be shitty, both of them (CJ/Larry would have just been mediocre if this year's pick would have conveyed but it didn't). If Cronin thought he had no other option that's exactly what Lawrence Frank and David Griffin wanted him to feel and he got played. I'm here hoping that now that it's no longer Cronin's first rodeo, now that he isn't applying for the job and now that he doesn't have ownership breathing down his neck about the repeater tax that he will be much bolder and know when to tell opposing GMs to give him fair value in return or fuck off. If he can't do that and continues to get pushed around, we're in big big trouble.
Dude, it's a cutthroat business and if you start letting other GMs walk all over you, they'll never stop. We gave away a lot more value than we got back and if we use the TPE it won't be as bad but it will still be bad because we gave up four guys that can legitimately start in this league or at least play major rotation minutes and got back one... that's what happened. I'm just hoping that Cronin was working from a place in which he had very little leverage because according to him, word was out that he had to cut salary (which what the fuck is wrong with our organization that they let shit like that get out there), he also said he took less to get CJ and Norm to places they wanted to be (WTF is that about) and he was an interim GM. So the hope I'm holding onto is that he can do much better in a better financial situation and with the clout of a full time GM not an applicant for the job.
