Simons heatcheck

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by illmatic99, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    CJ isn't a point guard.

    This is a completely different conversation topic. One topic is whether they can play together. Can they play together? Sure. Is it a backcourt that can win in the playoffs? We don't know yet. There's a whole other thread dedicated to that topic. My point in that other thread was that I don't think Dame/Ant is going to have more success/different results than Dame/CJ. We won't know until this post-season.

    The other topic, the one that I'm addressing here, is whether Ant is better as the #1/primary ball handler. I posted some stats. I had to go get those stats because on/off isn't the same thing as strictly looking at games where Dame was out. The rotation changes without Dame. The shot distribution changes without Dame. I wanted to only look at games where Simons was playing point guard without Lillard.
     
  2. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Here you go:

    With Dame:
    27.11 USG%
    16.27 AST%
    56.4 TS%

    Without Dame:
    28.21 USG%
    25.41 AST%
    61.2 TS%

    The USG% is fairly similar, but the guy is just more efficient and a significantly better passer when he's playing point guard.
     
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  3. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    It seems weird to me to not look at the role he plays when dame plays, but is off the court, and only factoring in games that Dame misses.
     
  4. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    But is the team more effective with both playing together? (along with a Gp2 or Hart) Who cares what the individual stats are.
     
  5. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    When Dame is out, it changes a lot of things. Who is in the starting lineup? Who plays backup point guard? Who picks up the slack on FGA? It's not as simple as just looking at on/off.

    How many minutes is Ant playing at point guard when Dame is playing?

    If Ant is significantly better as a starting point guard, which I think I have shown that he is, aren't we holding him back by playing him out of position? I said earlier in the thread that my main concern was that he doesn't play nearly as good out of position. I think I have shown that. :dunno:
     
  6. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    a fundamental question: who cares if he plays worse individually but the team plays better?
     
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  7. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    I much prefer data like this to message board sports psychologists!
     
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  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    what I saw was that when Dame was out, Winslow was more of the PG than Simons
     
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  9. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    Who cares if we're holding him back? Are we trying to be the best team we could be? Or worrying about holding back Simons?
    When Simons is ON THE FLOOR with Dame, he has a higher eFG% and a higher TS%. Thus, he is more efficient playing alongside Dame than without. Simons is 31/70 from 3 while on the court with Dame. That's good for 44%. When Dame is off the floor, Simons is 58/159 from 3. That's 36%. That's worse. He has a much highe usage when he is the PG, with Dame off the court. This is obvious. As has been pointed out, when a #1 guy is off the floor, you hope that your #2 is able to step up and be an effective replacement. Ant has shown he could do that.
    If Ant shot worse, and was more inefficient when Dame was on the court, to the detriment of the team, then I could see you having a point. But that just isn't the case. He makes a great #2 alongside Dame. So where is the issue?
     
  10. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    If we're trying to be the best team we could be, then shouldn't we be trading Dame or Ant for a true star small forward? If it's all about the aggregate, then why are we trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole?

    I don't think he makes a great #2 alongside Dame. I think he makes an okay/good #2.

    With Dame (12 games) - 21 ppg, 4 rebounds, 3.41 assists, 7.58-17.66 FG (43%) and 3.66-9.75 threes (37.6%)

    Those are not GREAT numbers. Those are good numbers. Those are CJ numbers. His overall numbers look better right now because Dame has missed 10 games. Would his numbers look so good if Dame had played all 22 games that Simons has played? He doesn't play as well with Dame in the lineup. He shoots significantly worse. 4% worse from the field and 5% worse from three. Those are not small numbers.
     
  11. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    He shoots significantly better ALONGSIDE Dame. Playing with Dame, on the floor at the same time, he shoots 44% from 3. That is great. He is a better shooter and more efficient alongside Dame.
     
  12. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    Also, who is this hypothetical star SF?
     
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  13. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I don't think we need to make a decision now, but Ant and Sharpe are our future starting 1-2 and that will be a nightmare for the league. Over the next 3 years, it's a luxury to have a three guard rotation like this or even start Sharpe at the 3.
     
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  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    So I went back to that link you posted. It says Dame and Ant play 23 minutes per game together. Simons averages 37 minutes per game. So why is Simons shooting 5% worse in the 14 minutes per game that Lillard is sitting on the bench?

    Is it the bench?

    Is it that Simons is in a lot of catch-and-shoot situations when he's playing with Dame?

    And while he might shoot 2% better from three while Dame is on the floor, he shoots 2% better OVERALL in games where Lillard doesn't play at all.
     
  15. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I don't think Dame is getting traded soon. He might not get traded at all. But if the goal is to win a championship with Dame, then we might need to consider trading Simons.
     
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  16. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    They've started 12 games together and went 8-4. What about that makes you jump to say trade Simons? And again, find me the star SF we are landing for him, please. Because saying it is a whole lot easier than finding that right fit.
     
  17. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Depends. Are we going all in? Are we trying to win a title with Dame and Grant?

    Could try to turn Simons/Nurk into Durant.

    Could go after Jimmy Butler. The Heat are terrible.

    I could probably put together some other names we could target. Or if we are trading Dame, it’s a different list.
     
  18. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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    CJ is the starting PG on the 2nd best team in the West right now.
     
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  19. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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    Gotta reach NBA Finals to outperform Dame/CJ.
     
  20. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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    Neither Durant or Butler are not available for Simons/Nurk. If they were, the deal would be done already.
     

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