Take pity on Dame and trade him

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Feb 8, 2022.

  1. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,909
    Likes Received:
    14,822
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you are going to do the logical thing and learn from history... shit!

    I hold onto hope that Cronin reads about what Einstein defines as insanity and can generalize that concept and that he won't let other teams strong arm him just because we're in dire straits otherwise we're all just spending our money for nothing.
     
  2. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    For 40 years as a Blazer fan I've rooted for the laundry over any player (Go Blazers!) and pretty clearly the current mix is, and has not been, working. Congratulations on continuing to cross your fingers, but whats the definition of insanity?

    STOMP
     
  3. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    They pissed away Dame's prime under Olshey and now are in a talent deficit. Every single off season I was flabbergasted with the silly patchwork personnel moves that this board cheered. YEAH! We've got Derrick Jones! Championship here we come! YEAH! We've traded away our future to land... 30 year old Robert F'n Covington! ...and those duds were after the absolute disastrous 2016 when Olshey gave away the farm for Evan Turner and Alan Crabbe. Here's some salt to rub around in that old wound...

    https://www.blazersedge.com/2022/12...e-agent-portland-trail-blazers-video-contract

    So here we are in mediocre land as Dame's career begins to sunset. What to do? Admire the sunset and reflect back, or accept reality & plan for tomorrow?

    STOMP
     
  4. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Ouch. So we laugh at Memphis because they signed Chandler Parsons (and he yucks it up on All The Smoke about it) and then we turn around and give the money to Turner.

    We signed Turner because he looked great in Boston. Seems to me Josh Hart looks pretty similar to Boston Evan Turner, is on a MUCH smaller contract, and everybody wants to trade him "in case" he leaves for nothing or gets (horrors!) a bigger contract.
     
  5. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    that's not the only reason at all.

    1. we desperately need to add height. he's a SG playing PF on many nights. this is also by design because Chauncey insists on playing Grant against any PG on defense.
    2. we have Shaedon who will start to warrant more minutes next year.
    3. we (foolishly) signed another SG while hard capping ourselves who also needs minutes and also plays PF while being diminutive.
    4. because of our current roster construction, his 12 mil contract is the only one of the only ones we can feasibly trade and get back commensurate (or better) value.

    we will miss the intangibles that Hart brings, but on this roster, he is the most obvious trade candidate on the team. if it were up to me, i'd much rather deal Payton, but Cronin/Billups probably value his potential to be a point of attack defender more than i do. and i doubt he has the value that Hart does on the open market.
     
    RR7 and STOMP like this.
  6. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    I like Hart a lot, but agree that he's the obvious trade candidate to try to improve the mix of what talent they have to put around Dame. I wanted them the poach Looney not Payton from the W's.

    STOMP
     
  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    So are you suggesting we start Grant at PG once we get our magic PF?

    Hope springs a turtle. I see Shaedon as more of a SF. He doesn't have the handle or passing skills to play guard. Unlike Hart.

    "We signed a worse SG than the one we have, so let's keep the worse guy and trade the better one"

    But that's the problem, you CAN'T get back commensurate value. Hart is better than his contract.

    No he isn't. He's the player another team might want most BUT THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S GOOD (and cheap). The most obvious trade candidate is Anfernee or Damian because they're the two player that duplicate each other and push everybody else out of position. Your position amounts to: "our front office won't do the obvious trade, but I want SOME trade, so Hart makes sense!"
     
  8. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2021
    Messages:
    9,062
    Likes Received:
    7,410
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Currently the apartment in the Moda
    I see this as Nurk needs to go but I'm not real educated on the way that all works.
     
  9. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,909
    Likes Received:
    14,822
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know why this isn't obvious to everyone. Ant is a really good young player... in fact he reminds me of a young Dame as far as skills, just doesn't have the intangibles. I know that you and I are on the opposite side of this as far as which one we think should go but it is so similar to watching Dame and CJ playing together that it's torture. I just hope Joe can see this and finally put us out of the misery of the two small scoring guards that aren't great defenders especially out of position and only one is a good passer. We've been watching that shit not work for half a decade, can we please try something different?
     
  10. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    18,844
    Likes Received:
    15,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    PDX
    You don't think our approach under Joe/Chauncey is different than Neil/Terry?
     
    blazerkor likes this.
  11. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    i did? how did you arrive at this conclusion from my comment?

    take a look at hart's TOV%. Shaedon is also 19. wait a few years before making such definitive claims.

    ya, cuz the worse one has presumably 0 value while Josh is playing above his.

    he's a free agent in 5 months. if you can bring him back for less than 18-20 mil/yr, be my guest.

    i like how you ignored my comment about me wanting to trade Payton instead of Hart while ranting in this response. i only pointed out why Josh is the obvious trade candidate on this team because of his presumed trade value and how everyone and their mother wants a starting caliber player making less than 15 million on their roster. you seem to want to ignore what other teams would want to give up or desire in this evaluation.
     
    RR7 likes this.
  12. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    If your goal is to surround Dame with players that complement him, then you keep Hart and trade Simons. Simons only plays well when Dame is out, because he's essentially Dame's mini-me, which makes him a poor backcourt partner. Meanwhile Hart does everything Dame doesn't (and vice versa).
     
    blazerkor likes this.
  13. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Fingers crossed! Then we can both be happy.
     
  14. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    INCLUDING THE BLAZERS, so let's keep him.
     
  15. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    23,213
    Likes Received:
    28,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Hmm. Maybe thinking that that anything we do as fans, whether endlessly rooting for laundry on mediocre players, or constantly demanding rebuilds when things aren’t working, has any impact on what the team does?
     
    Fairly-Hard likes this.
  16. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    I hold hope again, I'd given up even that under Neil. But they're a ways away from competing no matter what path they take and even if everything goes right.

    STOMP
     
    HailBlazers likes this.
  17. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    What a silly strawman. I'm not demanding shit nor do I hold (let alone express) dilutions that our conversations have anything to do with what happens. I'd love it if our conversations were reality based though.

    I view myself as merely a fan... it says so right under my seal pic and name.

    STOMP
     
  18. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    23,213
    Likes Received:
    28,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Oh, geez, that wasn’t intended to be a personal comment on you. We’ve shared board space long enough to know each other better than that. I agree we’re all Blazers fans, which is a shortened form of “fanatics”. We’re all a bit nuts, which conforms to your question about the definition of insanity. When it comes to the Blazers, any of us can just hold up a mirror.
     
    Fairly-Hard and STOMP like this.
  19. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    I know I know, Hart is an excellent complimentary player to either Dame or Simons. However, if they're going to change the mix around Dame he seems the likely one to go for a variety of reasons. His contract is up and they could lose him for nada after this season. Moving Ant after he's played pretty poorly for the last month is not likely to bring back reasonable returns. Payton brings much of the same skill set to the table as JH and he's already under contract. The only other things they have that might be able to change the current mix for the better are Grant, Sharpe and picks all of which seems less palatable.

    STOMP
     
    Fairly-Hard likes this.
  20. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'

Share This Page