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Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by MickZagger, Oct 6, 2022.

  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Perverse incentives. I honestly don't know how you'd fix it.

    Here's a suggestion: either another lottery for just the very worst teams, or have it be part of the same lottery, and one (or two) teams that "win" THAT lottery lose their draft pick for that year. (You could set up things to soften the blow - maybe it transfers so they get two picks the next season, or maybe there are qualifiers so you get left out of the bad lottery if you've lost over a certain threshhold of player-games to (GENUINE) injuries.)
     
  2. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Only way to fix it is to give playoff teams the chance to win the lottery too with all 30 teams having the same odds. There would never be tanking again.
     
  3. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    They should make the worst 6 teams battle it out for draft positioning. Then the rest of the lottery can do the same or use a lottery system for 7-14.

    1-2 get a bye

    5-6 - winner advances and plays 2 seed (loser 6th pick)
    3-4 - winner advances and plays 1 seed (loser 5th pick)

    Here’s where it gets interesting:

    Players that didn’t actively play in the last 10games are ineligible.

    So if a team is tanking to get into the bottom 6, they’d be at a disadvantage because they need to “win” in the tournament.

    Obviously can’t do it for the entire lottery because the teams that barely miss the playoffs are gonna crush the obviously actually terrible teams.
     
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  4. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't have to be a lottery, could be "the wheel" idea where teams rotate through all the spots over 30 years.
     
  5. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Players don’t care about lottery position so they wouldn’t care about such a tournament. They don’t want young players to come in and take their jobs.
     
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  6. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    If I was in charge of draft picks I'd change a few things.

    First not allow teams to trade picks more than 4 years out, but get rid of all the Stephen restrictions of needing a pick every other year. Teams could trade away up to four picks all at once. But teams couldnt decimate picks 7 years out when all the GM, management, and players have likely moved on with only the fans bearing a cost.

    Get rid of losses helping draft picks. Instead losing franchises get additional salary cap space on a sliding scale so last year's champ gets none, teams that won playoff series get a little, teams outside playoffs get a little more. If you won a title in the last 10 years you don't get much extra. It's enough to help losing franchises improve a little but not enough to lose intentionally.

    Teams bid salary cap or some type of draft dollars for draft position. Want to draft Wemba, maybe it's 40 million this year while it was only 10 million for the #1 pick last year. Not impressed on this year's draft? Save space for next year. Have a huge luxury tax payroll? Then you don't get high picks. Want to win now with veterans? You can trade your draft capital away. Think other teams are undervaluing pick 10? Bid a little more to get that at good value.

    It's stupid we have a system encouraging us
    to root for losses but honestly I am right now. Wish instead I was rooting for Dame and Shae to build for next year. Also wish the draft wasnt ping pong balls selected for a bunch of losers. There should be a system that successfully can be planned to build a winner.
     
  7. BassPlaya

    BassPlaya Puntificator

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    Each fan can root however they want...me included. That said, rooting for my team to lose is a choice. In my world, it is a personal, ethical choice. Blaming the system to me is just using an excuse for behavior.

    I can only be who I am. For my experience.....the day I consider "wanting" my team to lose, is the day I walk away from any sport....for good.
     
  8. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Downside to this is that it kind of REWARDS tanking. If you're the BEST team of the worst, you have the best chance at winning the tournament. Meanwhile teams that are genuinely abject (for whatever reasons) will lose in the tournament and the cycle of crappitude continues. I mean, the basic idea of giving the highest pick to the worst team is still a good one, because it means you don't have the same teams staying shit forever.
     
  9. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    But they're also arrogant enough to think that no young player COULD take their jobs.
     
  10. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    The salary space idea is actually kind of intriguing. Trouble is, it would've constantly rewarded Donald Sterling in the old days.
     
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  11. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    If the Magic had won that game, their record would presently be 32-42, and the Blazers' would be 31-41. Orlando's winning percentage would be better than Portland's right now.
     
  12. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    This is really a fascinating idea.
     
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  13. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I go to the gym to feel better... even though I know going to the gym will make me sore and may even result in hurting myself, I do it because in the long run I know it's good for me.

    Rooting for the Blazers to fail in the short run is similar to me. In the long run, the franchise will be better off losing a few more games this season and perhaps by trading the best player Portland has had.

    As you say, we each need to decide how we root for the team, but I know I tend to have a longer view and so am not as concerned about beating the Bulls or any of the other teams the rest of this year as I am with what kind of team we'll have two years from now.
     
  14. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Love this idea
     
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  15. BassPlaya

    BassPlaya Puntificator

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    At over 60 years old...I certainly get the whole long term view thing. But there is a major piece missing from that analogy. There aren't 10's of thousands of people counting on you, invested in you, and rooting for you in some manner....that your going to the gym might harm/disappoint/turn off. It's just you....and your choices for the future. What I am talking about, is the spirit of competition, and willfull choice to wish defeat upon one's team. It goes against the very premise as to why I follow the team and watch every game....to see them beat the other team. One can use any analogy they want, or excuse, but in the end, I cannot be a fan of both winning....and losing. I choose to root to win every game.
     
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  16. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    Yeah, but their employers do, so they’d be forced to play. If it were really an issue you could start suspending people without pay.

    Young guys would play hard because it’s a direct reflection on them and veterans would play hard (imagine Dame for instance) because it would improve the likelihood of us having an asset / or drafting someone that can meaningfully contribute.

    Also this notion that players are just gonna pack it in is absurd. Most players are competitive dudes. They don’t like losing, no matter what the reason.
     
  17. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    That’s why it was a 6 team tournament. Could even do bottom 4.

    i like the idea of the bid system but that also guarantees some teams will be crap forever because the owner is too cheap to spend on a top pick
     
  18. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    I'm fine with everything in your post except the word ethical. Blazers loosing or winning or draft picks or not has nothing to do with ethics. It's a silly game I and likely most here wasted decades watching for pure entertainment.
     
  19. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Yuck. The Blazers should have to reimburse season ticket holders for making them watch the kind of mess they put out there tonight.
     
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  20. BassPlaya

    BassPlaya Puntificator

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    If you read my post....I was very specific. It was about me....not other fans.

    "moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity"..........."a theory or system of moral values."

    It's simple. In my world, you never play to lose. The contest itself is the definition of sport.
     

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