Trade Idea Realistic trade options for summer of 2023

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SharpeScooterShooter, Apr 11, 2023.

  1. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    It all depends on the risk on Ayton. He is young and he is super skilled. If the issues with him are just fit and personality clash with Monte, it is well worth the risk. If he really does not care about basketball - it is not worth it. But I specifically prefixed it with the point that if this team wants to put a potential contender around Dame, you will need to take risks. That's one that might be worth exploring.

    Just imagine this team with a mobile center in Chauncy's switching defense with an elite perimeter defender like Matisse on the court, the Blazers no longer being under-sized with Shae playing the 2. All of a sudden you look at a team with much much better defense that is not undersized, a proper backup PG. This team still has a TPMLE, 2 trade exceptions and 1 or 2 rookies to fill the roster.

    If you do not take risks, this team is not going anywhere. It might fail, but risks is how you move from a meh team to potentially a contending team.
     
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  2. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    You can still try to get him with the TPMLE or via a trade with a trade-exception (not sure if he is a FA or under contract)? Again, this team needs a mobile center to play the defense Chauncy wants. It also needs a proper backup PG. This trade gives you both and you still have assets to fill the other missing parts.
     
  3. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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    Would you rather have Deandre Ayton, Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert or stick with Nurkic?
     
  4. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Me? I would roll the dice on Ayton first. He is the youngest and seems like he would work best on defense for Chauncy's scheme.

    My order for them would be:

    Ayton, KAT, Nurk, Gobert

    Of course, this is all hypothetical. We really do not know if the bad blood between Ayton and Monte is the real problem for his disinterest or not.
     
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  5. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    Stick with Nurk, and get Pascal Siakam or Mikal Bridges through trade. Then sign Seth Curry to bolster bench firepower.
     
  6. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    I would not mind getting Pritchard over Curry. I think he comes cheaper and is a better PG, while still a decent 3pt shooter.
     
  7. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    I think he's going to be really good.
     
  8. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    Yes we do. Ayton showed the same disinterest in college at Arizona.
    He just doesn't have the mental drive to be great....
     
  9. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    We vastly disagree on Ayton being “super skilled”.
     
  10. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    I will defer to your knowledge here. I have not followed him in college. If this is really the case, he is not a good target. I honestly do not have the knowledge to asses that.

    Clearly. He has post moves, he is a decent pick and pop threat and pick and roll threat, he can shoot the mid-range consistently. He can actually run the floor and finish in transition, clearly a lob threat. He is light on his feet and can change directions really well for such a big man, his handle is not bad for a big man. So the skills, certainly are there.

    His #1 problem, from what I have seen him - disinterest. And if it is really just a normal trait and not an issue with Monte, he is not worth it.

    His #2 issue, again from what I have seen, is defensive awareness - and that is either an issue of coaching and experience.
     
  11. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    Embiid and Jokic are super skilled, Ayton is in the above average category.

    Ayton, statistically, is about on par with Nurkic and cost nearly double the money.

    Ayton also had the benefit of playing with Booker and one of the best “true” PGs of all time, CP3.

    Finally, Ayton doesn’t change the trajectory of this team at all. He’s not nearly as skilled as Jokic or Embiid, who are the reinging MVPs, and neither have sniffed a title.
     
  12. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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    Well I don’t really know if Nurkic does either.
     
  13. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Fair. Should have probably been "super skilled for his age".

    This is where we differ. In 9 years, Nurkic's VORP (accumulative stat) is 6.8. In 5 years, Ayton's VORP is 7.2 (which tells you he added more value in 55% of the time).

    In TS Added (number of true shooting added over league average) during their career, Ayton is at 427.5 in 5 years, Nurkic is at -135 (in other words, Nurkic shooting hurts your offense compared to the average, Ayton is a clear plus).

    Win shares for their career, Nurkic 26 in 9 years, Ayton 31 in 5 years. WS/48 (adjusted for minutes, in other words), Nurkic 0.111, Ayton 0.160 (so he is both more durable and contribute more to winning per minute played).

    Add the fact that he is 5 years younger and without the injury history that Nurkic carries, and I would argue that his salary, compared to Nurkic, seems reasonable for his production, age, potential.

    Add the stylistic difference in Chauncy's defensive scheme - and if the Blazers believe he will be engaged and happy to play here, it sure seems like a well-worth risk to take.

    I have no doubts that Ayton is not worth the cost compared to Jokic or Embiid (but that is mostly because of the max salary cap), but I am more than certain that he is worth the salary compared to Nurkic, for sure.

    I would say that if you look at the accumulated win-share and VORP and adjusted to number of years played, yes, Ayton is worth about twice the cost of Nurkic.
     
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  14. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't.
    They are the same tier of players.

    They can be good/really good at times. They can also kill your team if you rely on them too much.

    Only Ayton costs 2x as much
     
  15. Mr. Robot

    Mr. Robot Well-Known Member

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    they need depth, simple as that, two good players in the rotation and theyre champs material

    they way they use ayton is harming both ayton and the team and hes too expensive to be used like that (yes, ayton has questionable motor, but he can easily be 20/10 center)

    that means they should either give him a bigger role or trade him and get some center how will do simple things (rebound, set screens, defend if he can, get easy buckets when he gets the ball, like looney with the gsw)
     
  16. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    Townes is the best option of the 4 and it's not close. But whats the cost to get him? Sure doubt they're looking to pair up Gobert and Nurkic

    STOMP
     
  17. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    Unless you value defense. And if they don’t, then the team is fucked
     
  18. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Not interested in Ayton at all. He looks like a way overpaid player worth less every year just like Ben Simmons.
     
  19. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    While I know that Rudy received DPY honors, he's been repeatedly abused on D in the playoffs to the point he's been barely playable. Similarly, even without time to prepare teams love to involve Nurk in high pick and rolls to get their prefered guard/wing ISO'd on him for a clean look. Ayton is the best of the 4 defensively but I've concerns about his mentals while KAT is by far the best offensive and overall option... the question was who do you prefer correct?

    STOMP
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
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  20. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    If we get #1 and therefore Wemby then I think Ayton would be a great pickup if it only cost us Ant and Nurk. I’d throw in a future first for Payne.
     

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