Should the Raps waive Alvin?

Discussion in 'Toronto Raptors' started by Premium, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Premium

    Premium JBB I'm kind of a big deal

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    harsh move i know. i love alvin as much as anyone...he's a warrior. not particularly great at anything, but good at almost everything...perimeter D, clutch shots, doesnt turn the ball over, can handle and dish. but i wonder if his huge contract is hurting us, and hurting our chances of signing a big man

    alvin is good enough that SOMEONE would pick him up...maybe atlanta...a team with cap room that needs a pg. that would rid us of his contract, and we could re-sign strickland or someone else to a small deal. rod gave us some decent minutes, and although his shooting was streaky, he did an alright job for someone who was rusty and comming into a new system/situation.

    or is keeping alvin a good idea? he gives us depth off the bench, and with less minutes, the chance of him getting hurt is less likely. hes been the heart and soul of our team...are the intangibles that alvin brings worth the price he costs?

    just an idea...discuss...
     
  2. VinKanaddy

    VinKanaddy JBB JustBBall Member

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    what the..?? WAIVE Alvin??? Are you crazy? He's signed through 07-08 Season.. that's 3-4 more years! Who's to say that IF we waived him someone else WILL pick him up for that long at 5 mil/season? It's definitely beneficial for us if we keep him as a backup PG/SG. Just think of the bench consisting Donyell Marshall, Mo-Pete and Alvin Williams.
     
  3. jbbFranchise

    jbbFranchise JBB JustBBall Member

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    Actually, we would still have to pay Alvin his contract. It would be the same thing as the Dikembe Mutumbo situation, New Jersey waived him, they're still paying him, but hes getting paid by two teams. His new team; the Knicks (cheaper contracT), and his old monster contract by the Nets.

    Really this idea would not work for us, because his contract would still stick with us.
     
  4. deception

    deception JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, we would still have to pay Alvin his contract. It would be the same thing as the Dikembe Mutumbo situation, New Jersey waived him, they're still paying him, but hes getting paid by two teams. His new team; the Knicks (cheaper contracT), and his old monster contract by the Nets.

    Really this idea would not work for us, because his contract would still stick with us.</div>

    the only way to get rid of alvin is to package him with vince.
     
  5. Eclipse

    Eclipse JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, we would still have to pay Alvin his contract. It would be the same thing as the Dikembe Mutumbo situation, New Jersey waived him, they're still paying him, but hes getting paid by two teams. His new team; the Knicks (cheaper contracT), and his old monster contract by the Nets.

    Really this idea would not work for us, because his contract would still stick with us.</div>

    but the team that waives a player doesn't have to pay the full amount of the contract right?...I think that whoever agrees to sign Alvin agrees to pick up part of the contract when they sign him to a deal.

    I'm just thinking back to when Manny Ramirez was waived by the Red Sox...he's one of the best players in baseball but the Sox didn't want to pay his 20 million/year salary so they waived him and hoped someone would pick him up. I'm pretty sure that whoever signed him would have to take on the rest of his remaining contract. It would not make any sense whatsoever for the Sox to give away Manny for nothing and still have to pay his 20 mil. salary.
     
  6. VinKanaddy

    VinKanaddy JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yes, that's what I meant. Even if the Raps waive Alvin Williams, for some idiotic reason, we will still have to pay the remainder of his $5 mil/season when some other team signs him.
    For example, if a team signs him to a $3 mil/season deal through 07-08 season (Alvin's contract still has 3 years left), the Raps will still have to pay the remaining $2 mil/season for the three years.
     
  7. og15

    og15 JBB *********

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    Alvin has 4 years $25.8 million left on his contract, if were were to waive him and buy him out, let's say we could do it for about 12.4 million. If we did that we'd have to pay him $2,811,628 this year, $3,027,907 next year, $3,268,217 in his option year, I don't think you have to pay after the option year on a buyout, if not his last year he'd get $3,292,248. It would save us about 3 million each year (these are all approximates), but I we'd still be over the cap so it doesn't do much.
     
  8. deception

    deception JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Alvin has 4 years $25.8 million left on his contract, if were were to waive him and buy him out, let's say we could do it for about 12.4 million. If we did that we'd have to pay him $2,811,628 this year, $3,027,907 next year, $3,268,217 in his option year, I don't think you have to pay after the option year on a buyout, if not his last year he'd get $3,292,248. It would save us about 3 million each year (these are all approximates), but I we'd still be over the cap so it doesn't do much.</div>

    explain how the buyout works, that stuff confounds me. and why would he accept a buyout of 12.4 when he has more than 13 million left on his contract or using that as an ideal example?. moreover, we would still be over the salary cap but we would have more wiggle room under the tax threshold giving us the option of signing another dude for more than the 1.6 million, right?
     
  9. baller_14

    baller_14 JBB JustBBall Member

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    It would be a stupid move
     
  10. Premium

    Premium JBB I'm kind of a big deal

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting baller_14:</div><div class="quote_post">It would be a stupid move</div>

    how insightfull. thank you for your well thought out contribution. [​IMG]

    but yea...what i meant was, waive him, and buy out whats remaining. thats how i thought it worked...if another team picks him up, raps are on the hook for a portion of the salary.

    what do the raps need more...a player like alvin, or the cap space to throw towards someone like damp?

    the question remains...is alvin worth the money he's costing us. alvin isnt exactly a hot commodity. there are lots of players who could give us what alvin does...at half the cost. there arent too many centers out there.

    although it may sound like it...im not FOR this move...just trying to look at both sides of it. explore the possibility. i love alvin...hes one of my fav raptors.
     
  11. vinsanity03

    vinsanity03 JBB JustBBall Member

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    It would be pointless we would clear up roster but still be paying him. We have to trade or wait for his contract to expire
     
  12. jbbFranchise

    jbbFranchise JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">

    but yea...what i meant was, waive him, and buy out whats remaining. thats how i thought it worked...if another team picks him up, raps are on the hook for a portion of the salary.

    what do the raps need more...a player like alvin, or the cap space to throw towards someone like damp?

    although it may sound like it...im not FOR this move...just trying to look at both sides of it. explore the possibility. i love alvin...hes one of my fav raptors.</div>

    The cap space Alvin would leave, if we were to buy him out would be no where near what Dampier is asking anyway. We would save minimal money leaving us still over the cap. We may as well keep him because at some points he can be an effective player, rather than just saving money that would be useless anyway. Hes not worth his contract, but its not worth getting rid of him either.
     
  13. og15

    og15 JBB *********

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">explain how the buyout works, that stuff confounds me. and why would he accept a buyout of 12.4 when he has more than 13 million left on his contract or using that as an ideal example?. moreover, we would still be over the salary cap but we would have more wiggle room under the tax threshold giving us the option of signing another dude for more than the 1.6 million, right?</div>
    Players can buyout for up to 50% (I think), you'll never get a buy out where you get all the money in the contract since when you get bought out you'll be free to sign wherever you want. In the buy out we'd likely pay him all the money right away, but even if that happens you still have to spread it through all the years remaining on his contract.
    The thing is that Alvin doesn't want to leave, so he probably wouldn't agree to one, and in the market he won't get much.

    If we just waive him, no team will pick him up while on waivers, they'll just wait till he clears waivers where he can be picked up for the veterans minimum, so we'd only save 1 million off his contract, which is useless.
     
  14. N4S

    N4S BBW Member

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    I think this would be a stupid move being that he's been holding it down in Toronto for so many yrs now. He knows the players and the system like the back of his hand, bad move.
     
  15. deception

    deception JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">

    If we just waive him, no team will pick him up while on waivers, they'll just wait till he clears waivers where he can be picked up for the veterans minimum, so we'd only save 1 million off his contract, which is useless.</div>

    1 million is something especially for owners that vow not to pay the tax.
     
  16. og15

    og15 JBB *********

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    Well the we'd save 1 million in luxury tax payments
     
  17. ADubb20

    ADubb20 JBB JustBBall Member

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    waiving Alvin would be one of the stupidest moves that the raps can make. you dont wave someone makin that much. Also its too early to tell whats going to happen with him because if he can play for us then there is no question that hes gonna help our team. you cant waive the longest serving raptor in franchise history.
     
  18. VinKanaddy

    VinKanaddy JBB JustBBall Member

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    teams only have to pay luxury tax if the sum of their players contracts exceed $57.1 million for 04-05 season. So even if the Raps waive Alvin Williams nothing would change.
     

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