Will their every be another quaterback like Mike Vick

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by the inside source, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. Bearsfan1

    Bearsfan1 2 Time Defending FF Champion

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>If I was starting a franchise and I was told that I could take 1 QB from the teams still alive in the playoffs, Vick would be my 7th choice, right ahead of Bulger and Im not even sure about that....Hes been given all the tools to set the league on fire and he hasnt been impressive....Its a shame too, because his physical tools should dominate the game like no one ever has before, but he doesnt....from a defensive standpoint, hes not scary as long as you can spy him with a fast 'backer....At some point, the world will realize hes just another "gangbanger with speed"....</div>


    You are crazy for even considering taking vick ahead of Bulger. Bulger is getting better every game and is probably going to set league on fire next year. He passed for 3900 yards this year, and in only 14 games!!! Completed 66% of his passes at 8 yards an attempt.
     
  2. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    But he throws a lot of picks and Im not sure how much of his success is the system and the players he has around him....certainly, Im open for debate on this point though since Im not sold that Mike Vick will ever be the player a lot people are wrong about him being now....
     
  3. Bearsfan1

    Bearsfan1 2 Time Defending FF Champion

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>But he throws a lot of picks and Im not sure how much of his success is the system and the players he has around him....certainly, Im open for debate on this point though since Im not sold that Mike Vick will ever be the player a lot people are wrong about him being now....</div>

    his pick total dropped a significant amount this year, and as a percentage is lower than vicks
     
  4. Pats37

    Pats37 The Next Big Thing

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JustBry07)</div><div class='quotemain'>On Buffalo he also had a QB with not half the arm strength Vick has. I cant tell you how many times this season I have seen him drop a pass that was right in his hands. Now a good WR would be able to catch the passes Vick gives them, but its just to fast for him so he drops it half the time. Also Vick is quite a bit shorter its not as easy for him to stand in the pocket and make plays as it may be for the taller QBs therefore they run the ball quite a bit. PP half-asses his running routes and I'm sorry to say but I cant say I'm impressed with him, I hope the Falcons get rid of him actually.</div>

    LOL Bledsoe has an absolute cannon....he may not be able to get out of his own way sometimes but one thing he does have is arm strength.
     
  5. SoCal Falcon

    SoCal Falcon nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>PP last season in Buffalo (when he had a quality QB throwing him the ball.) 94 catches - 1252 yards and 9 TDs.
    In atlanta with Vick as Qb for full season
    45 catches - 575 yards</div>

    PP had a QUALITY RECEIVER in Moulds next to him. He doesn't have that in ATL. In this offense, PP is the #1 receiver not the #2 (although he should be). The man can't handle double coverage. His numbers were bound to drop. Even so, ATL is a run first team. I don't give two shits about the receiving stats. They will improve over time.
     
  6. Bearsfan1

    Bearsfan1 2 Time Defending FF Champion

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SoCal Falcon)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>PP last season in Buffalo (when he had a quality QB throwing him the ball.) 94 catches - 1252 yards and 9 TDs.
    In atlanta with Vick as Qb for full season
    45 catches - 575 yards</div>

    PP had a QUALITY RECEIVER in Moulds next to him. He doesn't have that in ATL. In this offense, PP is the #1 receiver not the #2 (although he should be). The man can't handle double coverage. His numbers were bound to drop. Even so, ATL is a run first team. I don't give two shits about the receiving stats. They will improve over time.</div>

    You have distorted the context of the arguement.
     
  7. SoCal Falcon

    SoCal Falcon nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SoCal Falcon)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>PP last season in Buffalo (when he had a quality QB throwing him the ball.) 94 catches - 1252 yards and 9 TDs.
    In atlanta with Vick as Qb for full season
    45 catches - 575 yards</div>

    PP had a QUALITY RECEIVER in Moulds next to him. He doesn't have that in ATL. In this offense, PP is the #1 receiver not the #2 (although he should be). The man can't handle double coverage. His numbers were bound to drop. Even so, ATL is a run first team. I don't give two shits about the receiving stats. They will improve over time.</div>

    You have distorted the context of the arguement.</div>

    Que??? Distorted how? You brought up a point and I countered. Sorry that it is not what you wanted to hear.

    Anyway, yeah, MV sucks and will never be a quality NFL starter, happy now? Geez... [​IMG] No matter, this team is and will be successful for many, many years to come. I'm just glad this his OVERRATEDNESS is on my team. You can have your Bulgers and Grossmans. :cheesey:
     
  8. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    Ill take all the Bulgers and grossmans I can get....along with Bradys, Penningtons and Mannings and add in McNabbs and Culpeppers....all of those mentioned are QBs that understand that titles are won from the Pocket, and until Vick graps that concept, he will never be a good QB....he also will not win a title until he learns how to play within that pocket, its the only way to be successful, if he continues to buck the system, he will never be consistant enough....
     
  9. SoCal Falcon

    SoCal Falcon nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ill take all the Bulgers and grossmans I can get....along with Bradys, Penningtons and Mannings and add in McNabbs and Culpeppers....all of those mentioned are QBs that understand that titles are won from the Pocket, and until Vick graps that concept, he will never be a good QB....he also will not win a title until he learns how to play within that pocket, its the only way to be successful, if he continues to buck the system, he will never be consistant enough....</div>

    Just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean that it can't happen. That is what frustrates me about people who complain about Vick's play - there has never been one like him before! You can say Cunningham and Slash all you want but Mike is different...just wait and see. He will some day deliver that SB trophy.

    Yes, he does need to get better in the pocket but since he isn't that adept at it yet, RUN, RUN, RUN!!! That is what he has that no other QB has. He can hurt you with feet and arm. The arm is just taking a little longer to develop [​IMG]

    Oh and, other than Brady, how many of those other QBs have won titles? Thought so.
     
  10. Eagles4Life

    Eagles4Life He Hate Me

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SoCal Falcon)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ill take all the Bulgers and grossmans I can get....along with Bradys, Penningtons and Mannings and add in McNabbs and Culpeppers....all of those mentioned are QBs that understand that titles are won from the Pocket, and until Vick graps that concept, he will never be a good QB....he also will not win a title until he learns how to play within that pocket, its the only way to be successful, if he continues to buck the system, he will never be consistant enough....</div>

    Just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean that it can't happen. That is what frustrates me about people who complain about Vick's play - there has never been one like him before! You can say Cunningham and Slash all you want but Mike is different...just wait and see. He will some day deliver that SB trophy.

    Yes, he does need to get better in the pocket but since he isn't that adept at it yet, RUN, RUN, RUN!!! That is what he has that no other QB has. He can hurt you with feet and arm. The arm is just taking a little longer to develop [​IMG]

    Oh and, other than Brady, how many of those other QBs have won titles? Thought so.</div>

    I think MV is a good player, not great but good. Exactly how is he different from Randall Cunnigham, except that he doesnt throw the ball as well as Randall did.
     
  11. SoCal Falcon

    SoCal Falcon nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SoCal Falcon)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ill take all the Bulgers and grossmans I can get....along with Bradys, Penningtons and Mannings and add in McNabbs and Culpeppers....all of those mentioned are QBs that understand that titles are won from the Pocket, and until Vick graps that concept, he will never be a good QB....he also will not win a title until he learns how to play within that pocket, its the only way to be successful, if he continues to buck the system, he will never be consistant enough....</div>

    Just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean that it can't happen. That is what frustrates me about people who complain about Vick's play - there has never been one like him before! You can say Cunningham and Slash all you want but Mike is different...just wait and see. He will some day deliver that SB trophy.

    Yes, he does need to get better in the pocket but since he isn't that adept at it yet, RUN, RUN, RUN!!! That is what he has that no other QB has. He can hurt you with feet and arm. The arm is just taking a little longer to develop [​IMG]

    Oh and, other than Brady, how many of those other QBs have won titles? Thought so.</div>

    I think MV is a good player, not great but good. Exactly how is he different from Randall Cunnigham, except that he doesnt throw the ball as well as Randall did.</div>

    Faster and more athletic and still think he has a better arm than Randall (RC did have a nice touch on the deep ball though). The most important point, however, is what Mike brings to the team - a chance at winning the SB. We can argue all day about MV. Point is that he brings a level of excitement that no other player has to this team. I, for one, am VERY thankful that he is on my team. Nothing anyone can say will change that.

    Mike just has to go out and do the damn thang and prove all his critics wrong. The man is only 24 and has time to develop. Can you imagine when he does? We were 9-6-1 (beat GB in the playoffs) in his first year starting (on a very avg. team) and his second year starting, the team is 11-5 and no telling hwo far we will go. That is really all I care about. You can talk stats all day. Bottom line is winning!
     
  12. Eagles4Life

    Eagles4Life He Hate Me

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    I agree with you, winning is a bottom line. I would argue who is more athletic MV or RC, RC could do it all, and we though for years in Philly that he would take us to a promise land, he never did though. The reason is that in the regular season, you can get by and win games with pure athleticism, because there are a lot of bad teams. In the playoffs, teams are better, with better defenses and you need to know how to throw the ball at the QB position to win in the playoffs. I do think that MV has all of the tools to be the great one, the problem with RC was that he never got the point, and I hope MV does.
     
  13. TheBeef

    TheBeef Commish of FUN!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you, winning is a bottom line.</div>

    Honest opinion, what is the Falcons record with Peyton Manning as their QB, or even Drew Brees or Chad Pennington....I think they are better than 11-5 and have a better chance to win it all with any of those guys....If they had not made the Vick trade and instead drafted the guys the Chargers drafted(Brees and Tomlinson), they would be a far superior team to the one that may lose to the Rams this weekend....
     
  14. Eagles4Life

    Eagles4Life He Hate Me

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you, winning is a bottom line.</div>

    Honest opinion, what is the Falcons record with Peyton Manning as their QB, or even Drew Brees or Chad Pennington....I think they are better than 11-5 and have a better chance to win it all with any of those guys....If they had not made the Vick trade and instead drafted the guys the Chargers drafted(Brees and Tomlinson), they would be a far superior team to the one that may lose to the Rams this weekend....</div>

    I dont agree with you. If Manning was that damn good, why did it take him 5 years to win a playoff game??
     
  15. Bearsfan1

    Bearsfan1 2 Time Defending FF Champion

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    As usual on this board, way to much credit given in terms of wins and losses to QB position
     
  16. JustBry07

    JustBry07 The Underdog

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you, winning is a bottom line.</div>

    Honest opinion, what is the Falcons record with Peyton Manning as their QB, or even Drew Brees or Chad Pennington....I think they are better than 11-5 and have a better chance to win it all with any of those guys....If they had not made the Vick trade and instead drafted the guys the Chargers drafted(Brees and Tomlinson), they would be a far superior team to the one that may lose to the Rams this weekend....</div>

    I dont agree with you. If Manning was that damn good, why did it take him 5 years to win a playoff game??</div>

    That I agree with. Hey if you were to put Manning with some mediocore team he would not be shining as brightly as he is right now, he's working with a great offense. Not saying Manning isnt a great QB because I'm sure someone will freak the hell out just cause I said that. However Vick on the other hand is winning games with a horrible O-Line, and with WRs that are mediocore as far as I'm concerned. So why no credit? Stats are nothing compared to getting a W in as many games as you possibly can in the regular season, and making it to the post-season. A win is a win, and it takes talent to win 11 games in the NFL.
     
  17. SoCal Falcon

    SoCal Falcon nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you, winning is a bottom line.</div>

    Honest opinion, what is the Falcons record with Peyton Manning as their QB, or even Drew Brees or Chad Pennington....I think they are better than 11-5 and have a better chance to win it all with any of those guys....If they had not made the Vick trade and instead drafted the guys the Chargers drafted(Brees and Tomlinson), they would be a far superior team to the one that may lose to the Rams this weekend....</div>

    Oh my gawd! That is the dumbest thing I have yet to hear. Brees had ONE, COUNT IT ONE, good season and now he is elite? And they LOST! You men to tell me that Brees would have gone into Lambeau (in his 2nd year) and beaten the Packers in the playoffs? The Falcons have had very little supporting cast. Recall last year? They won 3 of the last 4 games when Vick returned. That is what he means to this team. You can plug anyone into SD (see 42 year old Flutie) and get a victory.

    UUUGHHH! I am done with this one...
     
  18. Giantsfan1

    Giantsfan1 Thread Killer

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>If I was starting a franchise and I was told that I could take 1 QB from the teams still alive in the playoffs, Vick would be my 7th choice, right ahead of Bulger and Im not even sure about that....Hes been given all the tools to set the league on fire and he hasnt been impressive....Its a shame too, because his physical tools should dominate the game like no one ever has before, but he doesnt....from a defensive standpoint, hes not scary as long as you can spy him with a fast 'backer....At some point, the world will realize hes just another "gangbanger with speed"....</div>


    You are crazy for even considering taking vick ahead of Bulger. Bulger is getting better every game and is probably going to set league on fire next year. He passed for 3900 yards this year, and in only 14 games!!! Completed 66% of his passes at 8 yards an attempt.</div>


    Bulger throws way too many ints. I agree w/ Vick being Overatted but he is maybe the 9 th or 10 th best QB in the league.
     
  19. SoCal Falcon

    SoCal Falcon nfl-*****s member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>As usual on this board, way to much credit given in terms of wins and losses to QB position</div>

    No, way too much credit is given to STATS when the bottom line is WINNING. I don't care who gets the credit. The Falcons weren't winning until Vick came onto the scene. You can equate that any way you want.
     
  20. Giantsfan1

    Giantsfan1 Thread Killer

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SoCal Falcon)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagles4Life)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you, winning is a bottom line.</div>

    Honest opinion, what is the Falcons record with Peyton Manning as their QB, or even Drew Brees or Chad Pennington....I think they are better than 11-5 and have a better chance to win it all with any of those guys....If they had not made the Vick trade and instead drafted the guys the Chargers drafted(Brees and Tomlinson), they would be a far superior team to the one that may lose to the Rams this weekend....</div>

    Oh my gawd! That is the dumbest thing I have yet to hear. Brees had ONE, COUNT IT ONE, good season and now he is elite? And they LOST! You men to tell me that Brees would have gone into Lambeau (in his 2nd year) and beaten the Packers in the playoffs? The Falcons have had very little supporting cast. Recall last year? They won 3 of the last 4 games when Vick returned. That is what he means to this team. You can plug anyone into SD (see 42 year old Flutie) and get a victory.

    UUUGHHH! I am done with this one...</div>


    Last time i checked Flutie has lost almost all the games he has played as a charger he has won like 3
     

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