LeBron James vs. Larry Bird

[The Dream]

Totally agree. Look at what hes doing already as a 24 year old and with that team. Give him a teammate like Pippen and see what he does. Give him the Celts teams that Bird has and see what he does. Dude is fuckin NUTS. Hes not as skilled as Bird but as far as impact on a a game I think hes better already. Dude has the most dominant team in the league with Mo Williams and a 33 year old Big Z as his best right hand men. Better than Kobe's team with Pau, Bynum, Odom, etc., better than the Celts with KG, Pierce, Rondo, Allen.

Hes hyped up a lot but I think hes even better than people give him credit for. Hes far and away the best basketball player in the world as far as impact on a game goes IMO and I think hes fairly raw in some aspects of the game compared to a Kobe, Bird, etc. Hes just that talented and that imposing. He will be the GOAT IMO even though I'm sure many will hold onto Jordan as the greatest. Get Bron a player as good as Pippen and lets see what happens.

pretty much....

[huevonkiller]

Didn't the Cavs struggle against the Celtics (especially with KG, the Celts are very formidable), Magic even without Nelson (even Rockets Dream ), Lakers a bit? So that part of Run's comment about being better than them is not valid.

[The Dream]

cavs split with the Cs and my Rockets....they were 1-2 against the Magic I believe (a team who swept the lakers)...and they were swept by the lakers............we won't know who's better than who until the end of June.....

[huevonkiller]

cavs split with the Cs and my Rockets....they were 1-2 against the Magic I believe (a team who swept the lakers)...and they were swept by the lakers............we won't know who's better than who until the end of June.....

Just saying, I thought the Rockets gutted out a very nice win against the Cavs too, can't I compliment you once in a while?

[The Dream]

^^^why yes u can.....rockets actually matchup very well with the cavs....rockets matchup very well with everyone, but our offense loses focus too much.....oh nevermind I'll save it for the game thread....

[Sex Panther]

denny has spoken!!!

lebron > bird

what about.....



kobe vs. bird?

Kobe > Lebron

[Mr. J]

LeBron is already close to Magic as a ballhandler and passer, and close to Jordan as a scorer. He should go down as the GOAT if the Cavs can maintain a semblance of a team around him.

I disagree. LeBron doesn't and won't nearly have the impact Micheal Jordan has had on the game. In terms of stats, maybe. But LeBron would have been in the league longer.

You also have to consider that Jordan and Bird were playing in a much competitive NBA, IMO.

To get to the championship, Jordan had to continually go up against Isiah, Bird, Magic, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Payton, Barkley, etc. Who did LeBron have to get past to get to the Finals? Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Chauncey Billups? He's 0-4 in the Finals. Jordan dropped 63 on one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

BTW, Kobe > LeBron.

[Shapecity]

I'm sorry, but Larry Bird played against better competition than LeBron has faced. During Bird's peak he took out all the best teams in the NBA. Despite LeBron's MVP season his team was average on the road and winless against quality opponents. When Bird had the shoot out with Michael Jordan, would you say then that Jordan was the better player? I think at the time everyone saw the potential in Mike and saw how great he was going to be, but Bird was the better player at the present time. It's a similar situation right now comparing LeBron with Bird. What has LeBron accomplished that Bird hasn't?

[Denny Crane]

I completely concur that Jordan played against a league with more true superstars, but the teams weren't the same kinds of teams that LeBron has to go through to win it all.

Portland had Drexler and ... Terry Porter (nice player, certainly not one of the elite stars in the league)
Phoenix had Barkley, young KJ (16PPG) and ... Dan Majerle (nice player, again not one of the elite stars in the league)
Seattle was Payton and Kemp and a deep bench.
Utah had Stockton and Malone (two great HOFers) and who?

The teams to beat in the league today have more than two stars and even four seems to be the trend:
Boston has KG, Pierce, Allen, and Rondo
LA has Kobe, Pau, Odom, and Bynum
Orlando has Howard, Lewis, Hedo, and Nelson

Even the upcoming teams like Portland are looking to add a stud to their threesome of Oden, Aldridge, and Roy.

Of the teams the Bulls beat, a banged up and over the hill Lakers team with Magic, Worthy, and Scott .... maybe they resembled one of today's tougher teams.

Of note, Jordan didn't beat those healthy Lakers teams, or the healthy Celtics teams, or even the Pistons.

What makes LeBron so remarkable is that he's still so young, and while a Jordan might score 63 against the Celtics in a losing cause (the game and series), LeBron basically carried his team to the finals, and with the addition of one solid 2nd option and the loss of a few of his finals teammates (Hughes, Gooden come to mind), his team looks dominant.

[bullshooter]

One argument I'd make is that I don't think LBJ's game would translate as well into Bird's era as Bird's game would into today's game. LBJ would have been knocked on his ass more than a few times by now if he were playing in the late 80's. I'm not sure that he'd be the same kind of player.

To me LBJ is more like Magic than Bird in how he runs the team as a point-forward. How often does LBJ set a guy up by running him off of 3 screens for a jumper versus pick and roll for a dunk?

[Mr. J]

I completely concur that Jordan played against a league with more true superstars, but the teams weren't the same kinds of teams that LeBron has to go through to win it all.

Portland had Drexler and ... Terry Porter (nice player, certainly not one of the elite stars in the league)
Phoenix had Barkley, young KJ (16PPG) and ... Dan Majerle (nice player, again not one of the elite stars in the league)
Seattle was Payton and Kemp and a deep bench.
Utah had Stockton and Malone (two great HOFers) and who?

The teams to beat in the league today have more than two stars and even four seems to be the trend:
Boston has KG, Pierce, Allen, and Rondo
LA has Kobe, Pau, Odom, and Bynum
Orlando has Howard, Lewis, Hedo, and Nelson

Even the upcoming teams like Portland are looking to add a stud to their threesome of Oden, Aldridge, and Roy.

Of the teams the Bulls beat, a banged up and over the hill Lakers team with Magic, Worthy, and Scott .... maybe they resembled one of today's tougher teams.

Of note, Jordan didn't beat those healthy Lakers teams, or the healthy Celtics teams, or even the Pistons.

What makes LeBron so remarkable is that he's still so young, and while a Jordan might score 63 against the Celtics in a losing cause (the game and series), LeBron basically carried his team to the finals, and with the addition of one solid 2nd option and the loss of a few of his finals teammates (Hughes, Gooden come to mind), his team looks dominant.

The difference is that Jordan faced the best at their position. Magic and Stockton are the best PGs of all-time, bar none. Isiah might be 3rd or 4th best of all-time depending on who you ask. GP is also up there. So, Michael Jordan regularly played against three of the top four point guards of all-time. Malone can easily be considered the best PF of all-time. Bird was (and may still be) the best SF of all-time. Jordan also played against Ewing, Hakeem, and got a good taste of 90s Shaq. There is no center who is currently better (or even close to) being as good as these guys.

Modern day teams might have more stars, but a team of two HOFs is far superior to a team with a handful of stars. I don’t even know if we can consider players like Turk, Nelson, Rondo, Odom, and Bynum "stars" either. None of have made the all-star team and they would simply be known as role players back in the 80s and 90s. A banged up, over the hill Lakers still featured the greatest PG of all-time averaging 20/12 and a HOF Worthy averaging a career high in PPG. I think I would take that team over today’s Hawks or an Iverson-less Pistons team.

Besides, the year they played the Lakers was only one year. I don’t know how LeBron would fare against the Bad Boy Pistons, the Sonics, the Suns with Barkley, or even the Rockets with Hakeem, or really good teams like the Knicks with Ewing or the Hawks with Dominique.

As mentioned, the NBA was also much more physical and LeBron definitely would not be getting to the basket as easily.