2004 Preseason Top 3

Discussion in 'Men's College Basketball' started by Voodoo Child, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    Well, it's officially the offseason. What's an offseason without preseason rankings? If you want to add your own rankings, feel free to start a new topic.

    <font size="1"><font color="Red">These rankings are subject to change as players declare for the NBA draft.</font></font>

    2004-05 Top 3 <font size="1">by Wave</font>

    1.Wisconsin - You can say what you want to say about Duke and North Carolina bringing in two High School All-Americans, or about Michigan State returning every player that counts as well as adding the best High School player in Michigan. However, nothing quite tops what Wisconsin is doing by activating redshirt freshman, Brian Butch, and transfer Sharif Chambliss. Wisconsin also returns every player that contributes, and they will take their second leading scorer Alando Tucker, who they were without for the majority of last season, off of the injured list. For those of you who are not familiar with Butch, in the 2002-2003 season he was a High School All-American and a consensus top ten recruit.

    Butch was highly recruited by the likes of Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Arizona. Yet, he chose to stay close to home and go to Wisconsin. He was not injured this season; rather, he opted to redshirt so he could gain weight and learn the college game before he played it. It?s extremely rare to see such a high profile player such as Butch redshirt, but it should make him a much better player. Some reports say that he has added up to thirty pounds of muscle. Wisconsin is so deep next year that it is even uncertain if this High School All-American will even start!

    The other newcomer, Sharif Chambliss should be a pleasant surprise for most Wisconsin and Big Ten fans. Chambliss was a big time High School prospect. He was named to the all-state team in Wisconsin and was an All-American honorable mention. However, he made his name at Penn State where he and the Crispin brothers helped lead Penn State to the Sweet Sixteen. After the Crispins left, Chambliss took on the scoring load. Saying that he was a great scorer is an understatement. He is the all-time leading scorer in Penn State history. Now, after making school history and being named to an All-Big Ten team, he probably won?t even start at Wisconsin either!

    Next, you have to look at the addition of Alando Tucker. Alando, who nbadraft.net ranked as a top 40 sophomore, isn?t exactly a newbie, but he missed the majority of last season due to a right foot injury he suffered in December. Before the injury, Tucker recorded 24 points and 18 rebounds (11 offensive) against UNLV. His ?hops? are out of this world as well. He has over a forty inch vertical. Tucker is the Badger?s second leading scorer behind Devin Harris. Harris, a consensus NCAA All-American this year, has been considering a jump to the pro?s. However, if he stays he?ll help give the Badgers the best backcourt in the country. Harris averaged about 20 ppg and 4 rpg last season. As well as being named an All-American, Harris was named the Big Ten Player of the Year. If he decides to go to the NBA next season, he is expected to be drafted in the top ten. Along with Sharif Chambliss, Alando Tucker, and Devin Harris in the backcourt is returning Junior, Boo Wade. As a Sophomore, Wade started on the Badgers averaging about 7 ppg. Wade is known more for his defensive presence and his Battier-like hustle than he is for his offensive production, but he can still score with the best of them. Against Michigan State this season, Wade put up fifteen points, grabbed six rebounds, and dished out three assists. He will most likely take a seat on the bench this season to let the Senior P.S.U. transfer, Sharif Chambliss, get the starting job he?s more than earned by now.

    Don?t think the Badgers are without a froncourt presence though. Aside from Brian Butch, Wisconsin?s front court is headed by Zach Morley and Mike Wilkinson. Aside from the injured Tucker, Mike Wilkinson was Wisconsin?s second leading scorer and leading rebounder last season. Next season he will be a fifth year Senior, and the team veteran leader. He averaged about thirteen points and seven rebounds this season. He?s also notorious for recording double-doubles. Zach Morely really came out of his shell this season, averaging nine points and six rebounds (2nd on team). He?ll be returning as a senior as well.

    To me, it?s basic logic. The Badgers finished the season in the top ten, won the Big Ten championship, and played well all season as a team. They don?t lose anyone significant, yet they add three players that were out last year who are better than any three incoming High School recruits. The Badgers will and should be the number one team in the nation next season. If Devin Harris leaves for the NBA draft, I?ll obviously drop the Badgers, but I think I?ll only drop them as far as the seventh or eight ranking.

    <font color="Red">Note: Devin Harris has declared himself eligible for the 2004 NBA Draft; however, he has not yet signed an agent. If Harris opts to sign an agent, I will drop them. For the time being though, I will keep Wisconsin at #1 as it appears Harris may come back.</font>

    2.Georgia Tech - A lot of changes have gone on around the NCAA since Georgia Tech played in the championship game last April. Duke has lost their two most promising players, Livingston and Deng; Wisconsin appears to be losing their main weapon, Devin Harris; Kansas lost their HS All-American center, David Padgett; Connecticut lost their two superstars, Okafor and Gordon; and North Carolina lost arguably their best recruit, JR Smith. It seems like the only consensus top five team that didn?t lose an eligible player since the championship game was Georgia Tech. In fact, the only significant contributer that Georgia Tech loses is Marvin Lewis, and Lewis will be very easy to replace with the backcourt that Georgia Tech has coming in next season.

    Georgia Tech didn?t just get the number two ranking from me because they are the one team from the Final Four that returns the most talent. They got their ranking from me because of their backcourt, which could end up being the best backcourt in the NCAA if Devin Harris decides to hire an agent. It features three guards that are very likely to be first round draft picks next year. The player headlining this backcourt is Barry ?BJ? Elder. While his NBA potential is exceptionally hurt by the fact that he plays small forward and shooting guard at the height of 6-4, it?s not much of an issue in the much smaller NCAA where he can put his talent to good use despite his size. In fact, Elder?s talent outweighs his height so greatly that most experts project him as a mid to late first round draft pick next year. Last year as a Junior, BJ Elder led the Yellow Jackets in scoring (14.9 ppg; 5th in ACC), yet he was only fourth on the team in minutes. Elder also received All-ACC Second Team honors, All-American Honorable Mention honors, and was one of the final twenty candidates for the Wooden Award.

    The second key player in Georgia Tech?s All-World backcourt is the point guard, Jarrett Jack. Last year as a Sophomore, Jack was considered among the nations best. Most experts consider him as one of the top five sophomores in the nation. Although he can be pretty wild with the ball at times, he?s what most coaches look for in a complete point guard. He?s an all-around player who can shoot, rebound, defend, and dish. Most importantly though, he has a pass-first mindset despite being the second leading scorer on Georgia Tech last season with a scoring average of 12.5 points per game. Jack also recorded a team-leading 5.6 assists per game (3rd in ACC) and was second on Georgia Tech in rebounds per game with 4.9 rebounds per game. You couldn?t ask for a more complete point guard.

    Backing up Jarrett Jack will be Will Bynum, who was part of what seemed to be the deepest bench in the nation last season. Bynum was the main option off the bench along with Ishma?il Muhammad. This season he?ll be looked at for more than simply a spark off the bench though; he?ll be looked at for his senior leadership. Bynum isn?t your average backup; last season he averaged about twenty-one minutes per game and showed some flashes of brilliance, including a twenty point and five assist performance against Wake Forest last season. Bynum also finished fourth on the Yellow Jackets in scoring with 9.6 points per game and second in assists with 2.5 assists per game.

    The last key contributer in the Georgia Tech backcourt is Ishma?il Muhammad. Aside from being a crowd pleaser with his insane vertical leap and dunking ability, Muhammad is arguably one of the four or five best sixth man in the NCAA (as is Bynum). Muhammad led the Yellow Jackets in field goal percentage last season by shooting 57% from the field. He also averaged 9.3 points per game (5th on team), 4.7 rebounds per game (3rd on team), and 1.4 assists per game (3rd on team). Those statistics may seem average at first, but keep in mind that Muhammad played under twenty minutes per game. On just about any other team in the NCAA, he?d be starting and nearly doubling most of those stats. Muhammad will be able to show more of his brilliance now than Marvin Lewis has graduated; and we all know Muhammad is capable of big things, as was indicated in his twenty-two point and six rebound performance against Connecticut. It?s just a matter of playing time with him.

    All of Georgia Tech?s talent isn?t just in the backcourt though. They?ve got a very solid frontcourt as well. Georgia Tech?s center, Luke Schenscher, is quickly becoming one of the best in the nation. This season Schenscher has made more improvement than anyone else I?ve watched. He started off the season poorly with games like his two point and four rebound performance against Hofstra, but towards the end of the season he was having games like him his seventeen point and seventeen rebound performance against North Carolina. Schenscher finished the season averaging about twenty seven minutes per game, nine points per game, and seven rebounds per game (first on team) while shooting about 59% from the field. Schenscher is set to have a great year next year and is projected to be a mid first round pick in next year?s NBA draft.

    Last but not least, Georgia Tech returns their Senior starting power forward, Anthony McHenry. What McHenry does doesn?t always show up on the stat sheet. At first glance, you?d think that Moore should have started over McHenry last season. However, you have to look past the fact that McHenry only averages 3.4 points per game and 3.2 rebounds per game. He specializes in defense, setting picks, diving for loose balls, and doing the little things that make teams successful. I think he?s like a bigger Shane Battier in that way. He doesn?t care how many points he gets as long as he does his team is winning and he is doing his job on the court. Once you take into consideration the All-World backcourt, the All-World bench, the above-average frontcourt, and the incoming recruiting class (Jeremis Smith, RaSean Dickey, Zam Frederick, & Anthony Morrow); you have to agree that Georgia Tech will be among the best in the nation next season.

    3.Kansas - Kansas may be ESPN?s Andy Katz?s number one selection, but I don?t think they have what it takes to top Wisconsin right now. However, I did think they were the next best team available. Their big loss is Jeff Graves. Graves was considered by many a key part to their team this year, but his performance was nothing special. He only averaged six points and five rebounds. He?d be more missed if Kansas was not bringing in highly touted Russian big man, Alexander "Sasha" Kaun, and bringing back returning Sophomore David Padgett to help out on the post. They return ?America?s Best Backcourt? as well, featuring Keith Langford, Aaron Miles, Michael Lee, Russell Robinson, and J.R. Giddens.

    All that talent alone could earn Kansas a top ten ranking in my top twenty-five, but I haven?t even mentioned the best part yet. Kansas returns Wayne Simien, one of the only players who is really in contention for player of the year next year, along with Wisconsin?s Devin Harris. However, unlike Harris, Simien has given his word that he will return next year and not test his name in the NBA Draft. ESPN calls him ?A big-time scorer and future star?. As a Junior, Simien averaged eighteen points and nine rebounds after coming back from a knee injury that nearly ended his career. He should dominate the paint next year in the Big Twelve with ease.

    <font color="DimGray">However, like I mentioned earlier on, Wayne Simien will not be without help down-low. Most of the help will come from returning Sophomore, David Padgett who flourished in the minimal minutes he received last season. In about nineteen minutes per game, he averaged about seven points, one and a half blocks, and five rebounds per game. Those are fairly impressive stats for a Freshman, but not really a future star?s stats. Fans should expect a different David Padgett this year though as he?s adding weight. He may not put up the stats just yet, but he?s definitely talented. He was a High School All-American the year before last and was widely regarded as the second or third best Center in the United States, behind Wisconsin?s Brian Butch and the Boston Celtic?s Kendrick Perkins. He should start next year, being backed up by Alexander ?Sasha? Kaun. Sasha Kaun is a native of Russia, but attended High School in Melbourne, Florida last season. While in Florida, Kaun averaged thirteen points, seven rebounds, and two blocks per game. He was widely recruited by Duke and Michigan State. It was only recently that he decided to commit to Kansas. He is ranked by Rivals.Com as the sixth best High School Center in the nation, but was not good enough to be named a High School All-American. None the less, Kaun is expected to be an impact player right off the bat. He?s a 6-11, 250 lbs., big body that Kansas will love to have with the loss of Jeff Graves.</font>

    Also on the Jayhawk?s roster is slashing guard, Keith Langford. Last year Langford really displayed his all-around game. He ended the season as the second leading scorer, the second leading rebounder, and the second leading assister on the team with fifteen and a half points, three and a half assists, and five rebounds per game. Langford plays the wing, but he can play as well as defend all of the guard positions. The best thing about him is his defense though. He could possibly be the best defender on the Jayhawk?s roster. He?s also one of the best driving guards in all of the NCAA. He could wind up an All-American by the season?s end.

    Although the Jayhawk?s frontcourt is great, they?re backcourt is arguably the best backcourt in the nation. The only backcourts that come close to being as good are Wisconsin?s, Wake Forest?s, and North Carolina?s. Kansas? starting two-guard next season will be Sophomore, J.R. Giddens. As a starter last season, Giddens averaged about eleven points (third best on team) and four rebounds. He was named to the All-Freshman Third Team and All-Freshman Honorable Mention Team by most sources. He is expected to really come out of his shell this year. He?s displayed amazing athleticism ever since his High School years, where as a High-School All-American he came very close to winning the slam-dunk contest over phenom LeBron James. He showed flashes of brilliance last year, such as a twenty-four point and seven rebound performance against Iowa State. Some people have him as a sleeper pick to be an All-American. Giddens will be backed up by a near High School All-American, Russell Robinson. As a Junior, Robinson averaged eighteen points, six rebounds, four assists and four steals per game. He most likely won?t get too much time on the court, but as Rival.Com?s #8 High School Shooting guard, he gives us all something to look forward to in the future. At point guard, Kansas has one of the best passers in the nation, Aaron Miles. As the Jayhawk?s starting Junior point guard last season, Miles only averaged near ten points per game. However, he averaged an amazing 7.3 assists per game, which was not only the best average on his team but the fourth best average in the nation. When I watch Miles, I think of Allen Iverson. Miles is quick, flashy, and has some of the best handles in the NCAA. He?s a guy that half of the coaches in the league would kill to have run their team. He?s also a candidate to be an All-American.

    Backing up Aaron Miles and J.R. Giddens is Senior guard, Michael Lee. In most people?s eyes, Michael Lee may seem like an insignificant player, because he only averages five and a half points along with two and a half rebounds. Lee is a great player though, his veteran leadership off the bench gives Kansas a much needed deep bench. With players like Lee and Kaun coming off the bench, four All-American candidates, and one of the league?s rising Center?s; Kansas is in position to make a run at the national championship. While I value Wisconsin?s deep bench and experienced lineup better than Kansas? team of All-Americans, I?m not denying that they?re going to be one of the most dominant teams in the upcoming season.

    <font color="DimGray">* = Padgett has since transferred from Kansas.</font>
     
  2. Trip

    Trip 2000000000000000000000000

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    Wisconsin will be good next year, but I wouldn't have them at 1. UNC has the best players next year. J.R. Smith, Marvin Williams are going to be freshmen who will be sure to make a positive impact. It'll be even sweeter if the Big Three-May, Felton and McCants all return for another year. These five players will be scary. I'll be rooting for them to win the National Championship IMO.
     
  3. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Wisconsin will be good next year, but I wouldn't have them at 1. UNC has the best players next year. J.R. Smith, Marvin Williams are going to be freshmen who will be sure to make a positive impact. It'll be even sweeter if the Big Three-May, Felton and McCants all return for another year. These five players will be scary. I'll be rooting for them to win the National Championship IMO.</div>

    I agree that North Carolina will be good, and you'll see ESPN have them in their top five (and probably not Wisconsin). However, when I was considering possible number one teams I took into consideration the fact that North Carolina always has these great powerful and talented teams but never quite achieves greatness. Ever since coach Smith left, North Carolina has been the paradigm for a team that's always great but never the greatest. They haven't been to a Final Four since the Smith era, and they haven't been number one very long. Wisconsin on the other hand has been thriving with great team play but little talent. This year will be the first year where they've actually had extremely talented players since about Michael Finley's days. They've won Big Ten championships and been to the Final Four in these last three years, and they've done it without the league's top talent. Just imagine how they can do with real top-notch players. I respect your opinion though; we can only wait to see what happens.
     
  4. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    I agree that North Carolina is the team to beat. Even if they lose one or two guys to the draft, they still have my boy Marvin Williams and J.R Smith arguably 2 of the best incoming freshmen in the nation. I think its going to be another strong ACC year next year but I also think the Pac-10 might have a resurgence. Washington returns all its players except backup guard Curtis Allen, Arizona should rebound from a disappointing year with the talent they have, Oregon will do well with Aaron Brooks healthy and they bring in Maarty Leunen who is an overlooked prospect but he did really well in high school.
     
  5. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shard07:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that North Carolina is the team to beat. Even if they lose one or two guys to the draft, they still have my boy Marvin Williams and J.R Smith arguably 2 of the best incoming freshmen in the nation.</div>

    The key word in that is arguably. I don't think that either one is one of the top three incoming Freshman. Of course, we're all entitled to our own opinions. J.R. Smith had a great game in an McDonalds game that showcases little or no defense. It's a run and gun exhibition. I'd pay more attention to the big time High School games. It may wind up that they're the two best players if the rumored eleven High School players declare for the NBA draft, but that would likely include one of the two prospects going to UNC. Overall, I'd take Butch and Chambliss over Williams and Smith for next year anyday. They are both proven players with experience. You can't say that about either of the Freshman coming into North Carolina. Don't forget about the addition of Tucker to Wisconsin either. The additions are just greater to Wisconsin. It's easy as 1 + 1 = 2. Wisconsin finished the season ranked 16th, North Carolina finished the season 22nd, neither team really loses anyone, unless players declare for the NBA draft, Wisconsin imports more talent, and Wisconsin has proven they play better as a team.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think its going to be another strong ACC year next year</div>

    Jdawg909 has a nicebreakdown of the ACC here. ACC Next Season

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but I also think the Pac-10 might have a resurgence. Washington returns all its players except backup guard Curtis Allen, Arizona should rebound from a disappointing year with the talent they have, Oregon will do well with Aaron Brooks healthy and they bring in Maarty Leunen who is an overlooked prospect but he did really well in high school.</div>

    No doubt, the Pac-10 will be a strong conference once again. However, I don't picture them being better than the ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big Twelve, or SEC. While the Pac-10 made strong additions, none of the other power conferences make strong additions as well. The only conference I see falling off is the C-USA.
     
  6. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I also think UNC will be the team to beat next year..Felton, McCants, May are coming back along with J.R. Smith and Marvin Williams, that team could be very deadly next year IMO and I already am thinking of them to go all the way
     
  7. STC

    STC JBB JustBBall Member

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    Don't listen to SpartanFan, the kid is a complete retard. His parents beat him as a child, not to mention the damage that has been done to his mind by watching MSU blow there season, and all those old school Grizzlies game with Bryant Reeves that he used to watch. The kid has some serious mental issues. JK (inside junk)

    Anyways, I think UNC is the team to beat in the ACC, and in America. This year, with a few plays at the end of games, we could have gone from a top 20 team, to a top 10 team. If we have everyone, recruits and the guys on the team now, then I would have them at #1.

    McCants was arguably the best 2 guard in the nation this year, along with Ben Gordon. Some of the things Rashad did were amazing. He had a string where noone could touch him, and everynight he was just lighting teams up for 20+. Raymond Felton will be the best PG in the country next year, and if he works on his outside game, he will be unguardable. Right now, he can get into the lane anytime he wants, and teams respect his outside J, there will be no stopping him.

    May needs to get more physical. I don't know how many time I have watched him blow an open layup. He needs to take some fat off, turn it into muscle, and just throw people around. Now, I don't know what the deal with Jawad Williams is. He really isn't a PF, he is more like a big SF. He has a real nice stroke, and he should be playing on the perimeter. If Marvin Williams (top 5 recruit) comes, we can have May and Williams down low, and Felton, McCants and Williams on the outside. Then we can bring JR Smith (top 10 recruit), David Noel, Jackie Manuel, Melvin Scott, and Reyshawn Terry of the bench. We will go from having a short bench, to being an incredible deep team.

    We will also have two other real good recruits who I am not sure what they will do. First JamesOn Curry a guard and top 50 player, got arrested, and I am not sure if he will ever play at UNC. The second is Quentin Thomas, a big PG. He is a top 100 player, and will see limited minutes with Raymond playing about 32-35 a night. Melvin Scott, when Felton is not in the game will probably play PG too.

    Defense was a big problem for the team last year. Rashad would seem out of focus at times, and other times he would lock someone down. Daniel Ewing said to him "Man your playing great defense on me" or something along those lines in the first Duke-UNC game this year.

    ...maybe I will post more later...I'm tired now....
     
  8. mike18946

    mike18946 JBB

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    North Carolina look good on paper but they did this season too. I expected big things from them this year under Roy Williams but the chemistry just didn't seem to be there. Their excuse last year was the injury to Sean May which is understandable as he is a big part of their offense but this year? I had them going to at least the elite 8 but they had a dissapointing finish and record. Although many of their losses to the top teams were rather close, It still doesn't hide the fact they under acheived.

    Of course the players they will be adding could come in and put them back on that elite level. Duke If Deng stays will again be one of the favourites, losing Duhon but gaining Livington is a very good swap. Here's a guy who should be able to come in and produce straight away

    I expect a big year out of Randolph as well.
     
  9. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways, I think UNC is the team to beat in the ACC, and in America. This year, with a few plays at the end of games, we could have gone from a top 20 team, to a top 10 team. If we have everyone, recruits and the guys on the team now, then I would have them at #1.</div>

    It seems that North Carolina is always "the team to beat in the ACC", but have they actually been that team to beat since Dean Smith left the campus? With a few plays at the end of games, Michigan State could have been top give, Wisconsin could have been number one, and Ohio State might be ranked. "Could Have"s and "Would Have"s kill an arguement. Just go by what actually happened.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">McCants was arguably the best 2 guard in the nation this year, along with Ben Gordon. Some of the things Rashad did were amazing. He had a string where noone could touch him, and everynight he was just lighting teams up for 20+. Raymond Felton will be the best PG in the country next year, and if he works on his outside game, he will be unguardable. Right now, he can get into the lane anytime he wants, and teams respect his outside J, there will be no stopping him.</div>

    Stop claiming that every single North Carolina player is near godly. If McCants was the second best off-guard and Felton was (or will be) the best point guard, then why the hell did they finish so bad? There's quite a few of off-guards arguably better than McCants, and Devin Harris is better than Raymond Felton. They're not as good as you make them out to be. They might be one of the five best teams in the nation, but not better than Wisconsin.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">May needs to get more physical. I don't know how many time I have watched him blow an open layup. He needs to take some fat off, turn it into muscle, and just throw people around. Now, I don't know what the deal with Jawad Williams is. He really isn't a PF, he is more like a big SF. He has a real nice stroke, and he should be playing on the perimeter. If Marvin Williams (top 5 recruit) comes, we can have May and Williams down low, and Felton, McCants and Williams on the outside. Then we can bring JR Smith (top 10 recruit), David Noel, Jackie Manuel, Melvin Scott, and Reyshawn Terry of the bench. We will go from having a short bench, to being an incredible deep team.</div>

    When I look at that bench, I think to myself, "Wow, a Freshman (questionable for the pro's) and a bunch of kids who combined for nine points total in a second round exit of the NCAA tournament." They still don't have as deep as a bench as Wisconsin. One innexperienced (I say innexperienced because there are frosh out there like Butch with experience) Freshman and a returning starter does not make a "deep" bench.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We will also have two other real good recruits who I am not sure what they will do. First JamesOn Curry a guard and top 50 player, got arrested, and I am not sure if he will ever play at UNC. The second is Quentin Thomas, a big PG. He is a top 100 player, and will see limited minutes with Raymond playing about 32-35 a night. Melvin Scott, when Felton is not in the game will probably play PG too. </div>

    Quit counting these Freshmen like they'll be big contributers. Unless they were a High School All-American, there's a 90% chance they won't make a big impact their Freshman year, especially a convict who might not even end up in college.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Defense was a big problem for the team last year. Rashad would seem out of focus at times, and other times he would lock someone down. Daniel Ewing said to him "Man your playing great defense on me" or something along those lines in the first Duke-UNC game this year. </div>

    You are pretty much defeating youself in this arguement. I don't get it.
     
  10. STC

    STC JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Quit counting these Freshmen like they'll be big contributers. Unless they were a High School All-American, there's a 90% chance they won't make a big impact their Freshman year, especially a convict who might not even end up in college.</div>

    JR Smith and Marvin Williams were All Americans.....

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When I look at that bench, I think to myself, "Wow, a Freshman (questionable for the pro's) and a bunch of kids who combined for nine points total in a second round exit of the NCAA tournament." They still don't have as deep as a bench as Wisconsin. One innexperienced (I say innexperienced because there are frosh out there like Butch with experience) Freshman and a returning starter does not make a "deep" bench.</div>

    Questionable too the pros...that should tell you something. JR Smith is a real good basketball player. He has explosivness, and out of the gym range. Those "kids" like Noel and Manuel are very good defensive players. Both of them can come off the bench and lock anyone down. There not some JuCo transfers or anything. Then, the returning starter. Too me, that is a good size bench. With our starters (the best starting 5 in the country BTW) we should do some real damage.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Stop claiming that every single North Carolina player is near godly. If McCants was the second best off-guard and Felton was (or will be) the best point guard, then why the hell did they finish so bad? Fact of the matter is, Devin Harris is a better off-guard then McCants. Hell, there's quite a few of off-guards arguably better than McCants. They're not as good as you make them out to be. They might be one of the five best teams in the nation, but not better than Wisconsin.</div>

    Near godly? Never said that. I think they will easily be the best backcourt in the country next year. What they can do on the offensive side of the ball is amazing. Rashad can post people up, take it to the rack, or stroke a 22 footer. Raymond is one of the fastest players with the ball, and is an extremely good pentrator. Both need to work on defense, and turnovers. Raymond tries to make awesome plays, and turns the ball over. He can't stop doing that, but he needs to control it. Rashad needs to have his head in the game for 40 minutes. He cannot have lapses, or else the Heels will lose a bunch of close games again.

    And BTW, I think UNC had a pretty good year. Especially in the ACC. They beat some real good teams (NC State twice, UConn, Ga Tech just to name a few) and had a ton of great games, which they were very close to winning. With a few plays, they could have won 11 or 12 ACC games easily.
     
  11. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">JR Smith and Marvin Williams were All Americans.....</div>

    You took my quote out of context. Pretty dirty move. I was saying those other Freshmen weren't worth a damn, not Smith and Williams.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Questionable too the pros...that should tell you something. JR Smith is a real good basketball player. He has explosivness, and out of the gym range. Those "kids" like Noel and Manuel are very good defensive players. Both of them can come off the bench and lock anyone down. There not some JuCo transfers or anything. Then, the returning starter. Too me, that is a good size bench. With our starters (the best starting 5 in the country BTW) we should do some real damage. </div>

    North Carolina has the team with some of the best professionals. However, Michigan State and Missouri had the same kind of teams last year. I'm not saying that they'll be a dissapointment like MSU and Missouri were, but I am saying that they won't be #1. I see them more as a #2, #3, #4, or #5. You're making those players who come off the bench sound better than they are. Michigan State will bring Shannon Brown, Maurice Ager, and Marquise Gray off the bench. That's a deeper bench than North Carolina's. I'm inclined to say that Michigan State will have a better team than North Carolina, yet I'm not going to be biased like you.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Near godly? Never said that. I think they will easily be the best backcourt in the country next year. What they can do on the offensive side of the ball is amazing. Rashad can post people up, take it to the rack, or stroke a 22 footer. Raymond is one of the fastest players with the ball, and is an extremely good pentrator. Both need to work on defense, and turnovers. Raymond tries to make awesome plays, and turns the ball over. He can't stop doing that, but he needs to control it. Rashad needs to have his head in the game for 40 minutes. He cannot have lapses, or else the Heels will lose a bunch of close games again. </div>

    I realize you never said it, but that's certainly the way you portrayed them. Kansas, Wisconsin, and Duke have great chances at being better than North Carolina this season. Since we can only wait until the season to see for ourselves, you have to rely on logic right now. Wisconsin finished better, Wisconsin brought in more talent, Wisconsin will do better.
     
  12. STC

    STC JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You took my quote out of context. Pretty dirty move. I was saying those other Freshmen weren't worth a damn, not Smith and Williams.</div>

    So if your not an all american, then your not worth a damn? Mike Nardi from Villanova was a top 75 recruit. He was good, not great. He had an awesome year for Nova, and he is worth a damn.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, if you're so high on UNC, you can make your own rankings.</div>

    Maybe I will....

    1. North Carolina
    .
    .
    .
    315. SOMEONE BAD
    316. Wisconsin
    317. Michigan State

    ...(me and spartan are idiots...dont mind us)
     
  13. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">So if your not an all american, then your not worth a damn? Mike Nardi from Villanova was a top 75 recruit. He was good, not great. He had an awesome year for Nova, and he is worth a damn.</div>

    There's two things about that. The first thing is that Nardi was playing for Villanova, not North Carolina. Villanova, possibly my future school, has a great Division I basketball program. However, they aren't the caliber of program that North Carolina will be next year. The chances of Nardi doing what he did on Villanova at North Carolina are slim. The second thing is that Nardi happens to be that 5% of Freshmen who come in and make an immediate impact without being High School All-Americans. Not every player is that ready, and we don't really know if either North Carolina kid is. Hell, one might not even get into the University.
     
  14. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    I think a reason Marvin Williams is getting second guessed is because instead of moving and playing for a high school known for its athletics (nationally ranked O'Dea and Rainier Beach in Seattle were options), Marvin decided to stay with his friends at Bremerton which didn't even make the state playoffs besides Marvin scoring over 30 points nightly (my school knocked Bremerton out of playoff contention [​IMG] ). He is however a big athletic freak and i'm pretty positive he'll play in the NBA within the next few years. Maybe thats my northwest bias coming out but oh well.
     
  15. Voodoo Child

    Voodoo Child Can I Kick It?

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shard07:</div><div class="quote_post">I think a reason Marvin Williams is getting second guessed is because instead of moving and playing for a high school known for its athletics (nationally ranked O'Dea and Rainier Beach in Seattle were options), Marvin decided to stay with his friends at Bremerton which didn't even make the state playoffs besides Marvin scoring over 30 points nightly (my school knocked Bremerton out of playoff contention [​IMG] ). He is however a big athletic freak and i'm pretty positive he'll play in the NBA within the next few years. Maybe thats my northwest bias coming out but oh well.</div>

    No one is underestimating Williams. We all realize he's a top talent. However, one freshman does not change a whole team unless his name is Carmello, Magic, or Chris Jackson. I'm not buying North Carolina for that reason. Good information though.
     
  16. STC

    STC JBB JustBBall Member

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    No one is second guessing Marvin Williams.

    What are you talking about?
     
  17. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    misread, my bad
     
  18. Ghost

    Ghost BBW Member

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    I think Kansas will be the Number 1 team if their big three all come back.
     
  19. notmuchgame

    notmuchgame JBB JustBBall Member

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    Is this the season Ben Howland turns around the UCLA program? That's what I want to know...

    anyhow....I think Pitt needs consideration for preseason #1. Aren't they returning most of their players? A couple of players lost won't hurt the program much anyway because of the style they play...that rugged yet balanced play. They don't really have a main player after Bradin (sp?) Knight left a couple of years ago....

    UNC is an obvious pick but they never seem to live up to expectations...they got a bunch of players with NBA agendas....

    I'm not sure about Wisconsin but that's a bold pick Wave...I'll give u credit for that...
     
  20. STC

    STC JBB JustBBall Member

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    Pitt loses Julius Page, a 4 year starter, and Jaron Brown, probably there best player last year.
     

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