<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">DETROIT (AP) -- The Detroit Pistons acquired point guard Carlos Arroyo from Utah on Friday in a trade that sent center Elden Campbell and a first-round pick after 2006 to the Jazz. The 6-foot-2 Arroyo will provide depth behind Chauncey Billups and will allow Lindsey Hunter -- in his 12th NBA season -- to play fewer minutes. Arroyo started 71 games and averaged 12.6 points and 5.0 assists last season for the Jazz, but his role diminished this season despite signing a new contract on July 14. He started 16 of 30 games and averaged 8.2 points and 5.1 rebounds. </div> Source
Arroyo was being a b$%^tch. He was crying about not getting minutes. So the Jazz got rid of him. I dont think he is worth more than a first rounder right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting orena:</div><div class="quote_post">Arroyo was being a b$%^tch. He was crying about not getting minutes. So the Jazz got rid of him. I dont think he is worth more than a first rounder right now.</div> Regardless, he still has trade value because of his age and the way he played in the Olympics. The Jazz get cap space, but they have had a history of not being able to attract big name free agents to Utah. With all the teams interested in Arroyo, I find it hard to believe they couldn't have waited for a better offer. Adding Campbell doesn't do much to help the Jazz until his salary comes off the books. The 2006 pick is going to late first round because the Pistons are going to be a contender for the next few seasons.
^ Same with me, I thought they could of gotten more. I guess they didn't want much salary in return, since Eldens Cambell is off the books after this season. Hawks need a point, and I heard they were interested in Arroyo. They could of gotten a better offer I say from then, who knows but they might of been able to get Diaw, but I doubt it. Raps could of gave Marshall and Utah would of accepted, but who knows.
Utah got the worst of this deal, I know Elden's salary is coming off the 'books" this year but Arroyo has shown he can start at PG and make his team successfull while doing so. The Hawks could've gave you better like Banks said but you culdnt really use anyone that they could afford to give you. I dont know if the raptors were interested but that would be an amazing deael for Utah to get 'yell back in Utah to back up Boozer.
I beleive arroyo will fit well with the pistons. I do believe that utah could have gotten more for arroyo. Who knows utah could be prsuing a free agent in the near future.
Man wtf..... I liked Arroyo... I wish Sloan would've given him another chance. He was a young and skilled player, with a lot of potential IMO. Now we have a 36 year old power forward who is long out of his prime....... What was Sloan thinking!?
Word is, the Jazz are actually going to put Campbell on waivers once Kirilenko comes off the injured list. So there is a possibility Campbell actually re-joins the Pistons again.
This deal, not necessarily this exacy deal, had to be done. When you don't get along with Jerry Sloan, pack your bags. Plus, the Jazz played better overall when Lopez or McLeod were in the game. Arroyo just doesn't know how to pass when he is closely guarded. Arroyo's first instinct is to shoot. On the Jazz, pass is always the 1st option.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BallerAK47:</div><div class="quote_post">This deal, not necessarily this exacy deal, had to be done. When you don't get along with Jerry Sloan, pack your bags. Plus, the Jazz played better overall when Lopez or McLeod were in the game. Arroyo just doesn't know how to pass when he is closely guarded. Arroyo's first instinct is to shoot. On the Jazz, pass is always the 1st option.</div> I agree...Arroyo just didn't fit on the Jazz anymore. Last year, Arroyo was perfect for the Jazz. He's a scorer, which is what the Jazz needed. This year, the Jazz have scorers, Memo and Boozer. We just need a PG who can distribute. That's what McLeod and Lopez do best and that's why they're playing now and why Arroyo is gone. This move was much needed...Arroyo was doing nothing for the Jazz and the Jazz got some cap space and a future 1st round draft pick for him. I am certainly not complaining.
Why for Campbell though? Couldn't they get better value for Arroyo. This is going to come back and bite the Jazz one day. Could of got a better player.
This deal had to be done, but I think the Jazz could've got a better pick. Arroyo's trade value was falling fast and it didn't show many signs of going back up at all. Elden Campbell will probably be waived, but there are benefits in keeping him. The Jazz could really use some of his experience in the frontcourt. But, he will take minutes away from the young guys. His contract will also give the Jazz more room to move with in the offseason. On paper, the Pistons came off better in this trade. But, how many 25 year old benchwarmers do you know that can be traded for a fisrt round pick and an experienced big? IMO, it was a good trade for both teams. The Jazz didn't want Arroyo, and understandably so. He wasn't putting in enough effort, and complaining about getting benched. That attitude just wont work with Jerry Sloan as your coach, and Arroyo's days were numbered. When he was actually on court, the Jazz didn't play as well, so this trade can be classed as addition by subtraction for the Jazz.
I agree with Stockton, BallerAK47, and calijazz; this deal had to be done. Arroyo and the Jazz just were not working. I hope Arroyo the best, but if he takes that same attitude with the Pistons, he will be out of the league in a year or two. And I think we really did good, taking that we will put Elden Campbell on waivers; we sent a undrafted, unproven bench point guard for a first round pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spark22:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with Stockton, BallerAK47, and calijazz; this deal had to be done. Arroyo and the Jazz just were not working. I hope Arroyo the best, but if he takes that same attitude with the Pistons, he will be out of the league in a year or two.</div> Easy to make someone out to be a scapegoat when the team is struggling. If AK47 hadn't gotten injured we wouldn't even be having this discussion. If Arroyo hadn't gotten injured in the preseason Keith McLeod may have gotten released before his contract became guaranteed. Carlos Arroyo was a victim of circumstance who didn't handle his demotion as professionally as he should. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And I think we really did good, taking that we will put Elden Campbell on waivers; we sent a undrafted, unproven bench point guard for a first round pick.</div> Will you say the same thing about McLeod if he ends up getting traded in a deal that brings in a draft pick? Ask the US Olympic team whether or not Carlos Arroyo belongs in the NBA. I used to be a very big fan of the Utah Jazz but the decisions that management has made for this season has been horrendous. It all started by placing Sasha Pavlovic on the expansion list. They received nothing and lost out on a very promising 2nd year guard/forward. The reason for them doing this was so that they could keep Mo Williams, and then they ended up not matching the offer sheet that the Bucks gave them. They overspent to get Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur (over 120 million for two players that were essentially making the league minimum last year) and they put themselves over the cap by signing AK47 to a maximum deal a lot sooner than they had to. They drafted Kirk Snyder when they were already stockpiled at the shooting guard position. W/ all of the cap room that they had you would think that they would have spent their money more wisely. Arroyo and Giricek were signed at bargain prices, and the moment that the former had trouble w/ the coach, they shipped him out for a late round draft pick. Kevin O'Connor went from one of the best GM's to one of the worst in a span of six months. I'm one of the biggest Jerry Sloan fans there are and I do not plan on holding him responsible for Utah's poor start. He has earned the right to do things his way. He can only work w/ the personnel that is available to him and b/c of poor decisions made in the front office, Utah has gone from the most overachieving team in the league to the league's biggest disappointments. Anyone who thinks that the Jazz got the better of the Arroyo trade is dillusional.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spark22:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with Stockton, BallerAK47, and calijazz; this deal had to be done. Arroyo and the Jazz just were not working. I hope Arroyo the best, but if he takes that same attitude with the Pistons, he will be out of the league in a year or two.</div> Easy to make someone out to be a scapegoat when the team is struggling. If AK47 hadn't gotten injured we wouldn't even be having this discussion. If Arroyo hadn't gotten injured in the preseason Keith McLeod may have gotten released before his contract became guaranteed. Carlos Arroyo was a victim of circumstance who didn't handle his demotion as professionally as he should. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And I think we really did good, taking that we will put Elden Campbell on waivers; we sent a undrafted, unproven bench point guard for a first round pick.</div> Will you say the same thing about McLeod if he ends up getting traded in a deal that brings in a draft pick? Ask the US Olympic team whether or not Carlos Arroyo belongs in the NBA. I used to be a very big fan of the Utah Jazz but the decisions that management has made for this season has been horrendous. It all started by placing Sasha Pavlovic on the expansion list. They received nothing and lost out on a very promising 2nd year guard/forward. The reason for them doing this was so that they could keep Mo Williams, but they ended up not matching the offer sheet that the Bucks gave him. They overspent to get Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur (over 120 million for two players that were essentially making the league minimum last year) and they put themselves over the cap by signing AK47 to a maximum deal a lot sooner than they had to. They drafted Kirk Snyder when they were already stockpiled at the shooting guard position. W/ all of the cap room that they had you would think that they would have spent their money more wisely. Arroyo and Giricek were signed at bargain prices, and the moment that the former had trouble w/ the coach, they shipped him out for a late round draft pick. Kevin O'Connor went from one of the best GM's to one of the worst in a span of six months. I'm one of the biggest Jerry Sloan fans there are and I do not plan on holding him responsible for Utah's poor start. He has earned the right to do things his way. He can only work w/ the personnel that is available to him and b/c of poor decisions made in the front office, Utah has gone from the most overachieving team in the league to the league's biggest disappointment. Anyone who thinks that the Jazz got the better of the Arroyo trade is dillusional.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Will you say the same thing about McLeod if he ends up getting traded in a deal that brings in a draft pick? Ask the US Olympic team whether or not Carlos Arroyo belongs in the NBA.</div> If we could get a first round pick and a veteran big man for McLeod, I would say that would be a good deal. Arroyo maybe the better player than McLeod, but McLeod fits the system better. I believe Arroyo does belong in the NBA, but he is not as good as he or his huge fan-base believes. I think some of his failure may have been a "victim of circumstance", yet he should be able to handle some of the presure of losing and a coach that is only trying to make you better. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">I used to be a very big fan of the Utah Jazz but the decisions that management has made for this season has been horrendous. It all started by placing Sasha Pavlovic on the expansion list. They received nothing and lost out on a very promising 2nd year guard/forward. The reason for them doing this was so that they could keep Mo Williams, but they ended up not matching the offer sheet that the Bucks gave him. </div> I really didn't understand the whole Mo Williams saga. I think Mo was the best of our three young point guards last year, yet we made very little effort to re-sign him. I think Mo would of been almost perfect for this years team but I guess we will never know what could of been. Also, why do you think it was a bad idea to draft Kirk Synder? He was the best player left at the time of the draft. I think that is what the Jazz was looking at the time. I think next year Synder may be our starting shooting guard, especially if Raja Bell signs else where. But in reality, I think when we look back on this season we will say "what if". What if Arroyo didn't get injuried in the preseason or what if AK didn't get injuried and miss 25 games, etc. The Jazz may have not got the better of the deal, but this deal had to be done and I think the team will be better because of it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spark22:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, why do you think it was a bad idea to draft Kirk Synder? He was the best player left at the time of the draft. I think that is what the Jazz was looking at the time. I think next year Synder may be our starting shooting guard, especially if Raja Bell signs else where. The Jazz may have not got the better of the deal, but this deal had to be done and I think the team will be better because of it.</div> Drafting Kirk Snyder (aka Stringer Bell) may in fact push Raja Bell out of the door. Veteran players take offense to teams drafting players that play their same position. Plus they had just signed Gordan Giricek to a multi-year deal and still had combo guard Mo' Williams on the roster. Had everyone remained healthy/on the roster Kirk Snyder would probably have been bouncing back and forth from the injured list. I think that Kirk Snyder isn't as talented as advertised and will eventually be dangled as trade bait once everyone else realizes it. To be honest, I'd take Sasha Pavlovic over him in a heartbeat. How will this team be better in the short term when all they received was a potential player for a proven player? Arroyo in my estimation is a top back up point guard and a marginal starter but at the same time I can't imagine that the members of the Jazz can honestly say that their team is better just b/c Arroyo is playing somewhere else. This is not addition by subtraction. The Jazz were losing when Arroyo was getting DNP-CD's as well. A low round draft pick doesn't compensate for what Arroyo has brought to the table in the 2 1/2 years that he has been a member of the Jazz.
I found a good article on this situation, <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> At one point the radio dude said, with evangelical fervor, referring to Arroyo, "We all know he's the best point guard." But do we? According to statistician Roland Beech at www.82games.com, Arroyo is the lowest-ranked point guard on the team in plus-minus ratings. Lopez is best, at plus-8.4; McLeod's at plus-6.0; Howard Eisley is plus-0.6; and Arroyo is way down there at minus-8.3, behind even rookies Kris Humphries and Kirk Snyder. Arroyo's fans insist he hadn't been given a chance. Well, bunk. As of his departure for Detroit, he had played 150 more minutes than the next-closest Jazz point guard this season. He played 742 minutes, which is more than 15 entire games and also more than enough to evaluate a player who supposedly was a known quantity. </div> http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600106699,00.html Rich Evans makes some good points about Arroyo being traded. It actaully seems that the addition by subtraction could be right if his ego is as bad as it has been rumored. And I do not know if Arroyo is as "proven" as everyone says, last year was his first year to start and did a good job, he also had a good game in the Olympics under international rules; but it takes more than one year of play in the NBA to be a proven starter. I think he could be a great back-up, if he will accept the role. I think both teams could win on this deal unless the Jazz draft another "Quincy Lewis".
