Bulls trade Rose to Knicks

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by bullsger, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/#&lid=Bulls&lpos=Sub


     
  2. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I did not see this coming so fast. Bulls are Butlers team now...
     
  3. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  4. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  5. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  6. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  7. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  8. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  9. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  10. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    From a basketball standpoint this seems like a slam dunk. We lose Rose, get Noah's replacement on a reasonable deal, and get a decent prospect back in Jerian Grant.

    I'll miss Derrick, but this seems like a great trade.
     
  11. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Seems like a good trade value for value, I agree. Lopez is a good player on a good deal and Grant has a chance to be a solid pro. Noah replacement is set.

    Still don't know what the focus / direction of this team is.

    Butler / Lopez / Niko / McDermott playing Hoiball? Where is this train heading?

    Eats into Cap Space for next off-season, yes?
     
  12. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  13. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Color me surprised and pleased. Not a big Lopez fan, but he's a notch above serviceable and as has been pointed out, in this new NBA, that contract is very favorable.

    As for the team's 2017-18 cap space, I suppose it depends on what you were going to pay a starting C vs Lopez's $13.8mil. Certainly retaining either Noah or Gasol would have eaten up more.

    Good day.
     
  14. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  15. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    When analyzing a trade you have to look at what the goal for the team is.

    Does this trade, alone, represent a clear move to "win later?" No. If the goal was to blow this team up, this is a step in the wrong direction, given the Lopez contract.

    Does this trade, alone, represent a clear move to "win now?" No. Even if we replaced Rose from last season with Lopez that won't move the needle in a meaningful way.

    What does it actually accomplish for management?

    It gets them off the hook for having to make a very hard decision next off-season regarding Derrick Rose, especially since he's going to be going balls-out to have a great season in his contract year, assuming the fire in his belly for such things still exists. And if Rose had a great season, it would be a management nightmare decision.

    They also had a somewhat tough call regarding Noah. This move gets them off the hook on not bringing back a popular player.

    The Bulls are not currently markedly better now then they were this morning. The Bulls might be worse off for this upcoming season, if Rose did have one monster contract year season left in the tank. But if that happened, management had an impossible choice.

    Management now doesn't have to make that choice. That's why this trade was made.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Caldron at PG.

    Underwhelmed by that lineup.

    Playoffs is going to be a struggle.
     
  17. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Now that all the MVPs, all-NBA 1st teamers and DPOYs and former champions are gone, Hoiball will finally have room to flourish.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Tim Floyd 2.0

    upload_2016-6-22_14-47-49.png

    Seems like that's where the team is headed.
     
  19. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, my only regrets are that we had to give up Holiday and a 2nd round pick to get the deal done.

    I would've traded Rose for Jerian Grant. Before today I would've given the Bulls a 10% chance of getting something this solid back for Rose so I'm very pleased.

    Lopez will make 42 million over the next 3 years, but he's a productive vet who's averaged about 28MPG with a PER of 17 for the last 4 years and will be underpaid once guys like Bismack Biyombo and Harrison Barnes are getting signed for the max this offseason. We would've had to sign somebody to play center for us this offseason and the chance of getting a player as productive as him for his current salary was small, so his inclusion in the deal is a net win.

    Assuming the roster stays the same, the team is now clearly built around Jimmy Butler and I'd assume the team's new window is between now and the end of his current contract, and the team's roster/salary structure is better equipped to make a play to make the most of that.

    Rose is addition by subtraction IMO, both on the court and off of it.

    Aside from Niko the team's current pieces are also under control by the team for the next 3 years at reasonable prices:

    1). Jimmy: 3 years, below market
    2). Lopez: 3 years, below market
    3). Doug: 2 years left on rookie + RFA
    4). Jerian Grant: 3 years left on rookie + RFA
    5). Portis: 3 years left on rookie + RFA

    Clearly there are a lot of holes left, but the point is for the slots guys are filling on the roster they have a salary/contract that facilitates the addition of other pieces. This is in stark contrast to Rose who's combination of high usage/low efficiency and outsized contract really stalled other aspects of team building, and this isn't even getting into the ongoing injury soap opera.

    To me Lopez looks like he ought to be able to play with all 3 of Niko, Taj and Portis, and his offensive production is much better than Noah's these days so we just swapped out a 1-way player for a 2-way player, which is also a big win for the team. The only guy I'm not sure about is Lopez + Felicio but that's a minor complaint in the big scheme of things.

    It's also worth pointing out that Jimmy Butler was much better without Rose last year than with him.

    When Rose played Jimmy averaged 19.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 4.4 APG and when Rose didn't he averaged 27.7 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 7.0 APG, so part of what we're trading away was the incompatibility of our highest usage players and what we're getting in return is the increased capacity for our best player to be all that he can be.

    Overall I didn't see much upside in keeping Rose on this roster. He was never going to be a good fit with Jimmy and his next contract is probably destined to be a bad one, so moving him now for a very decent haul and capturing better optionality to add that 2nd star to Rose and give our other players more chances to be the best versions of themselves strikes me as a great play.

    I love this trade.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Have you ever watched RoLo play? He's big and slow and a sieve on defense. If he switches out on a wing, he's scored on almost every time.

    EDIT: he had the worst DRtg on the Knicks last season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016

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