CJ "Hating"

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by blazerkor, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    So a lot in here get labeled by others as CJ haters, I know that I get that a lot. I just wanted to make a thread that gave those that feel they've been labeled as that a chance to define what they feel about CJ and his fit on this team and for me at least, put those feelings to bed because my expression of them has become redundant and doesn't need to take any more space in this forum after this post.

    So I'll say my piece and unless I have a very specific complaint about something that happens in a game or see some credible rumors about trades, I'm just going to start supporting CJ along with the rest of our team. I waited until a bit after the trade deadline to do this last season because at that point the roster was set and it seemed pointless to complain about personnel but I just decided that posting my thoughts now and being positive after that would be even more effective for this upcoming season.

    So CJ seems like such a good guy and such a smart guy. I think he is going to have a great second career in broadcasting. I think he's just on the fringe of being an all star as a combo guard if he was the lead guard. When he has the ball he is one of the most dangerous scorers in the league. He has one of the best handles and it's very unique. I'm pretty sure he has every shot a guard can have in his bag. When he isn't having to worry about getting his shots up he's a very competent passer as well. That's a lot of love I have for CJ. I'm sure a lot in here agree with these things.

    At the same time I think that CJ is a horrible fit with Dame. I think for all of the great things I just said that he is miles behind Dame on offense. That's not an insult because I think Dame is arguably the best offensive lead guard in the league right now and CJ's not close to that. You would think it a great thing to have two guys this talented offensively but it just hasn't turned out that way. They play with no cohesive flow together and seem to be stepping all over each other despite how close they say they are.

    I blame this on two things. First, CJ (at least every time he touches the ball) seems to think he is the man and second, Dame is just too damn cool with CJ to put him in his place. Maybe a third thing is Stotts not setting a clear enough pecking order and/or enforcing it. This leads to ball stalling, one on five, MeJ shit that I just can't stand instead of an offense that makes sense. That offense would mostly be Dame looking to score or assist in a number of ways and when defenses took that away, the ball moves and we get great shots because of how much defenses have to do to take Dame away. Instead CJ makes bad decisions.

    That's on offense where CJ is strong. On defense CJ is absolutely terrible, there's no getting around that. He's slow laterally, he makes bad decisions over-committing and playing bad angles, he's not an explosive straight line or vertical athlete and he's undersized. I also don't think he gives half of the effort he could, which happens at times when someone is so bad at something. This is a bigger problem because it is compacted by the fact that Dame is just an average defender.

    Those are my thoughts, I know they're redundant but no one has to worry about me voicing them anymore. I would invite everyone to share their thoughts on CJ if you are someone labeled as hating him or doing the labeling. I hope a lot of people post on this thread for the next very little while and then this thing dies and we can move forward supporting our team and address specific problems we see moment to moment instead of doggedly commenting about things that aggravate us incessantly.
     
  2. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the novel, will read it on my next flight.
     
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  3. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RIPcity

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    Hate how damn selfish and blind he can be, don't think it will ever stop aggravating me unfortunately.
     
  4. BLAZINGGIANTS

    BLAZINGGIANTS Well-Known Member

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    tl; dr

    That being said, I really think the CJ “hate” is that he isn’t the best fit as “Robin” to Dame’s “Batman”. In most cases of a star player next to CJ, CJ would be a better fit. The overlap of styles is a bit redundant. At least for me, that’s my frustration. But I appreciate that CJ does have some top-level offensive skills. We could certainly be in a worse position, but the redundancy does not allow for maximum efficiency.

    If all that makes sense....
     
  5. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    No hate here....in fact I think CJ could really be amazing.....on another team. But here, with Dame, it's just not going to happen to his full potential because they are too similar and neither is able to step it up to be above average on the defensive end. This has been proven for years now and sadly, it is what it is.
     
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  6. Buffalo Custard

    Buffalo Custard Well-Known Member

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    People don't "hate" CJ. I've seen Blazer fan hate - Sheed, Bonzi, Zebo - and the way CJ is spoken of doesn't come close!
     
  7. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    The way I see it, there’s zero chance Olshey is going to give up on the Dame /CJ pairing until he sees how it works with a good roster. He’s assembled a good roster. This is the acid test where he’s either going to be proven right or else be faced with having to deal with moving CJ.
     
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  8. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    CJ would have been an amazing spark plug off the bench in the same vein as a Jamal Crawford, and I would have welcomed that role for him with open arms...... but he doesn't come off the bench. He starts for us and he's paid like a superstar.

    He is a gifted scorer, but he doesn't pass the ball and he doesn't play defense. Pair that with his size and the fact that Dame is basically the same player only a better scorer, better passer, better defender......

    Mostly I'm just tired of seeing the same thing play out every damn year.
     
  9. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Deep down, I don't think people hate CJ or his game, they hate that he makes so much money and ruins our ability to add another much needed star piece to the roster. This, however, is placing the blame at the person accepting the contract, not the person offering it.
     
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  10. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I get pretty frustrated with his selfish black hole style play. He doesn't pass, despite playing backup point guard for us. He's a pretty massive liability when he isn't hitting his shots.
     
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  11. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    I would guess most realistic Blazers fans aren't impressed with the return for the money that Olshey has thrown about.
     
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  12. Further

    Further Guy

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    I like CJ, I'm glad he's a Blazer, I just wish he were cheaper and played a 27mpg microwave game.

    But imagine how good he would be next to Simmons on the 6ers. He would never have to guard anyone but the smallest opponent and his shooting would do wonders for Simmons and Embiid. Like Seth Curry on steroids. But that's just not his fit on the Blazers.

    Hopefully with more legit defenders, his weaknesses won't be so evident this year and his strengths will still be on full display.
     
  13. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    CJ is basically a shorter Melo who is making 30x the money.
     
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  14. B-Roy

    B-Roy Blazer Fan

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    I think most people would be fine with it if he showed that he's actually worth that contract.

    So then it comes down to him not being good enough to warrant his contract, which just goes back to his play.
     
  15. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    He's worth the contract..... a handful of games a year. That's it.
     
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  16. Buffalo Custard

    Buffalo Custard Well-Known Member

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    His on court contribution reminds me of Randolph. Different person off the court, but I'm of the opinion some fans spend too much energy worrying about that.
     
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  17. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    C.J. is the most constantly underrated player on this team. The nitpicking of everything he does wrong gets tiresome... A lot of criticism he gets is legitimate but it's usually overexaggerated and people use it to ignore the good things he does for the team. The fact that some people only want to play him 25-27 minutes per game is mind-boggling to me. Some people in here would cut CJ's minutes by 10 and give them to Anfernee... That doesn't make us a better team.

    He provides on outlet to relieve pressure off Dame. His playmaking improved last season. He bails out our stagnant ass offense consistently. When Dame is struggling, C.J. often times picks up the slack and gets going himself. When Dame has it going, C.J. happily defers and spaces the court. I feel like if we had Bradley Beal all these years, people would be saying the same thing about him. He's an overrated defender and very similar to C.J. Put C.J. in a similar situation as Beal and he's getting you 28-29ppg with 5-6apg. We have a guy that'd be a legitimate all-star if he had his own team, but he's willing to defer to our superstar and happily plays a great 2nd fiddle to him. And people want to bench him and cut his minutes or trade him for a big that struggles to shoot 40% from the field and 30% from 3... It's ridiculous to me.

    4.4 assists per game in a slow-it-down offense with mediocre talent around him, but he doesn't pass?

    This is a perfect example of the drastic overexaggerations I'm talking about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  18. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Is Bradley Beal worth his contract? If so than C.J. is too. Anyone who consistently gets 20ppg and can provide ball-handling and some playmaking is worth near a max contract.

    Let C.J. have his own team and no one would be saying he's not worth his contract.
     
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  19. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    We can have a top 10 defense with C.J. McCollum playing 34-36mpg as our starting SG. Just takes a combination of personnel (check) and good coaching (we'll have to wait and see on that).

    With C.J. McCollum playing 34-36mpg as our starting SG, we have the potential to have a top 3 offense even with mediocre players at every position.

    His "poor fit" on this team is overblown.

    Agreed. I just wish we could see the pairing with a good roster AND a good coach (maybe Stotts coaches well next year?).
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  20. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    99% of the league is "miles behind Dame on offense". But C.J. has shown that he can play at an extremely high-level with Dame out, so to say C.J. isn't close to being a top-level lead guard is false, IMO.

    CJ's "selfishness" gets extremely overblown in my eyes. C.J. happily defers to Dame when he has it going, and I'm baffled as to how a guy who people say "never passes" can average 4.4apg over the course of a season.

    I also don't see how CJ and Dame are a horrible fit for offensive reasons, when they can be paired with 3 average-to-below-average offensive players and still be one of the most productive offensive lineups in the league. The only reason this offense works is because we have two elite iso-scorers, not in spite of it. "No cohesive flow" isn't because of the Dame and C.J. pairing... Stotts' offense is designed to have players create off the dribble from the perimeter, whether it's through pick n roll, isolation, or catch-and-go...

    Think about the flares that C.J. runs off of... once C.J. catches the ball, the play is basically dead, no one is moving, and he's supposed to make something happen off the dribble. Then when C.J. tries to make something happen, you have a ton of people bitching about him trying to make something happen off the dribble... Basically, I think you're mistakenly blaming the backcourt pairing for the lack of "cohesive flow". Our ball-movement isn't any better without C.J. in the game, yet C.J. gets blamed for it.

    People underrate having a 2nd guy that can handle the ball, make plays, and initiate offense. Dame's job gets MUCH more difficult on the offensive end with a Gary Trent Jr. at the 2 in place of C.J.

    His defense is bad, but bad guard defense can be covered by a solid backline while bad forward/center defense can't, and good offensive guards can generally have more control of the offense than good offensive bigs. So having a poor defensive guard who's really good offensively mixed with an average defensive guard and 3 really good defenders in the frontcourt is completely fine. That type of combination gives you a chance at having a top 10 defense and a top 5 offense.
     

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