Depressing Season, Depressing Franchise

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by philsmith75, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I had so much hope with the new front office; West, Myers, Jackson, Malone.

    Same ugly product though. Defense is a bit better, but still huge absence of attention to details, executing the offense, limiting turnovers, boxing out and rebounding.

    Worst thing, overly dependent on small ball; which is simply stand around, one on one basketball which ends in a forced jumper then getting hammered on the glass at the other end.

    New players please, even if Curry (who I hoped would be our "franchise" player) needs to go. You know what? We don't need a franchise player, we need a TEAM first. Who's Houston's franchise player? They're winning. Same for the Pacers, the Wolves. Don't shoot for the moon (we're going to be the Heat and Clippers!!), make some progress first.
     
  2. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    You're absolutely right. Look at Philadelphia. Same idea. This team is just a horrible mix of players. It's like when you go to the playground and someone picks randomly who he thinks can play best, instead of getting the less talented guys but builds a mix of talent that fits well together. Monta was dead right on Curry's draft day. They should've moved Monta before drafting Curry and put a Bruce Bowen type of player next to him. Raja Bell was a nice fit.
     
  3. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    The warriors need to make smarter draft picks and stop tying up their cap with dead weight contracts. It's like the warriors just can't seem to make good decisions that tie everything together. I've almost given up. I'd rather watch the Knicks or the Blazers.
     
  4. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    Check out this stat from Marc Stein's power rankings on ESPN:
    "How much more eager will Dubs owner Joe Lacob be to make a splashy trade when someone breaks it to him that Golden State hasn't had an All-Star since, uh, Latrell Sprewell in 1997? It's a drought six seasons longer than the next teams in line: Milwaukee (Redd in 2004) and Sacramento (Peja in 2004)."

    Talk about depressing. I still can't get over the fact that they threw away the amnesty. What kills me is that the Amnesty would've meant more to the team than DeAndre Jordan. How could they not see this? Do they honestly think that with Jordan, the team would've been a contender? If Lacob and Riley would've came on to the scene and never been around the franchis, I could excuse them for mis-scouting the talent here. But Lacob and Riley have been here for years?

    How can Lacob not understand that the 1st thing the fans wanted to see was Riley fired and Biedrins waived? We are not dumb fans here in Oakland...we know our basketball. We have YEARS of experience in how to do things wrong, and what pitfalls to avoid. He's not far from getting boo-ed at home the way Cohan did. Honestly, I'm debating breaking my (not going to another game until the the team shows that they're moving in the right direction) stand to go to the Mullin Jersey retirement game, simply to Boo Lacob at half court. I'm sick of it all.
     
  5. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    I've been MIA on this board, but I had to chime in and say, I CONCUR. This is bullshit.
     
  6. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    That three game winning streak gave us hope, but then the Warriors came crashing down losing to a beatable POR team. I have no idea if the Warriors will keep their lotto pick or lose it to Utah or another team, but it seems they cannot make a right move this season. I have no idea whether they will be able to make a trade for Chris Kaman, a legit 7-footer, but I don't want to part with Klay or even our high second-round draft pick. We still haven't seen enough of what Chris Wright or Charles Jenkins can do. This team doesn't stockpile picks, but wastes them for cash. Then there is the amnesty they squandered on Charlie Bell who could have been an expiring. I am still upset that the Warriors did not pick Greg Monroe, a legitimate C, in 2010. Then there is Jeremy Lin, who remained a scrub here, but became Linsanity in New York. Bob Fitzgerald is still the Ws announcer instead of Greg Papa. Finally, we got Jerry West, but Larry Riley is still the GM :MARIS61:.
     
  7. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Monta got injured tonight. Time to let Curry run the offense and get Klay some big time burn.
     
  8. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I think I've been on this board since 2003 and I feel like every year is the same. Even the warriors beating the mavericks in the first round during that timespan seems like an unimportant victory because we sure as hell didn't return to the post season after that.

    Maybe if we give the new ownership more time to straighten things out, but I sure do not know why the hell it's taking them so long to fire Riley, the doofus that Cohan and Rowell installed. Riley is clearly a manager that shows he's not intelligent enough to run the franchise. He does these moves to make other moves and then he doesn't get things done at the end of all that crap.

    We waste trade exceptions, lose talented, small salary players to go after 10 million dollar price tag players that we wind up not getting. On top of that we lose our chance at the one thing we do mediocre to decent at which is drafting young players? If we do get a young, good guy, they don't let the freakin new coach get a chance to evaluate them. Also maybe the coaches they hire can't evaluate. For example: Keith Smart preferred Acie Law III over Jeremy Lin, but where the hell is Acie Law now? Where is Keith Smart now? Freakin revolving door coaches and border-line 12th man pickups did not help this franchise either.

    So we can't sign good free agents, we rarely make good impactful trades that work in our favor, we don't get "A+" ratings in the draftboard decision making, and we can't play consistently on both sides of the ball in the most important half... the second half! Frustration is taking its toll.
     
  9. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    Agreed. The thing is, when building a team using mid to late 1st round picks and 2nd rounders, you need to sell buy low and sell high. Or blow the team up and get really bad and pick a early round superstar (which we failed at miserably in the past)

    There were guys like Azabuike, R. Williams, D. Wright, and Randolph that had peak value around the league. All of those guys had potential, but none of which could've been a franchise player (Maybe Randolph at the time). Each of these guys should've been packaged for proven role players. Once that happens, you can package proven players for a star that's in a trade me or I'll walk scenario. The problem with our front office is that they fall in love with potential, and are afraid to make moves.

    Now we moved Randolph, but too late. In the end, until they open their eyes and stop hoping for a late round superstar, they need to build a team. The problem with that, is that it's a process that takes time.
     
  10. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I agree with this philosophy. I wouldn't trade those guys for role players, but when you have young talent with "potential" you have a lot of ammunition to get a stud player. This is Ainge/Boston's model when they traded Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair + picks/expirings for KG. Gerald Green was 100% unproven but had transcendent value because of his "potential". Gomes and Telfair were young players who contributed a bit, I don't think anyone thought they'd ever be star players at this point but, again, they're youth generated extra value. Fast forward to today and they're both career reserves/fringe rotation players. Al Jefferson was contributing well and looked like a stud PF. He did turn out to be a great post scorer, but as he got older and the "potential" label wore off people saw him for what he was- great offensive player, terrible defender, not a guy you build a franchise around. Plus his contract extension made him undesirable.

    This is why I am still open to trading Curry and Klay if the right move came along. People are falling in love with Klay but IMO hes never going to be a centerpiece you can build a contender around. His ceiling is probably akin to Ray Allen, and we all saw how that worked out for the Sonics. Klay is getting a reputation around the league and if he really starts lighting it up and making noise his value as a prospect is going to skyrocket. I'm a big fan of his, don't get me wrong, but this team has no franchise player and I don't see Curry or Klay becoming a true franchise player. Step #1 needs to be acquiring that guy who can lead us to a championship, then add pieces around him.

    I wouldn't trade Klay right now because I think if given more opportunity he can really up his value. Maybe down the stretch he gets more playing time and maybe gets starts for Monta or DW due to injuries, trades, or just our being out of the PO race. Same goes for Jeremy Tyler. Especially with young big men, he doesn't have to tear it up, just producing in 20 mpg can add big time "potential" value.

    Just looking at our recent history, the Jax/Harrington trade went through largely because Ike Diogu still had some semblance of potential, even though Don Nelson had given up on him and I think the W's fan community was pretty sure that the guy just wasn't going to pan out. We ended up getting David Lee based largely on the "potential" of Randolph and, to a lesser extent, Azubuike. That one never came back to bite us on the ass and even the contract isn't looking bad at this point as Lee is playing up to expectations.

    If I was making decisions for the W's I'd probably try to dump Monta for whatever assets we can get (expirings, prospects- even marginal grade ones), I'd also definitely see what Dorell Wright could get us. If you could get either Asik or Taj Gibson from Chicago (as well as role player fillers, maybe expiring ones) for Monta I'd definitely do that. I'd see what I could get out of Indy, Toronto, Charlotte, Utah, Minnesota, etc. DeRozan, Gerald Henderson, Burks/Hayward, Beasley. Monta wouldn't get a Rubio, Kanter, Favors, Biyombo, Ed Davis, Valanciunas, Hibbert, Paul George, Derrick Williams, etc. but I'd still move him for prospects who are just decent and expirings. I believe we'll still have that ~$10 mil this offseason that we tried to throw at DeAndre Jordan, dumping Monta for cap relief gives us more money to play with to re-build through free agency or S&Ts plus adding a prospect gives us a highly moveable asset. Even if they're sort of "meh" prospects they're just so mobile and have so much value added, thats what is going to allow you to rebuild this team.

    This upcoming stretch of games could really put the kibosh on playoff hopes, and just in time for the ASG/trade deadline. The competition is very tough and we have a TON of road games and back-to-backs in the future. Perfect world scenario, we start dropping tons of games (this is likely) then you move Dorell for a high second round pick and an expiring contract, then move Monta for a decent young player and a role player or two with an expiring contract. Let Curry run the team and Klay start at SG, Rush at SF, give Tyler some more burn and start playing Charles Jenkins over Nate. Give yourself the second half of the season to evaluate these guys (something we never did with Lin), let them boost their value if they play well, the schedule suggests that we'll probably lose a hell of a lot and could get our first round pick back. We'll have a big chunk of cap room to either sign FA(s), absorb a contract, or S&T. Management showed they'll spend to add picks last season when they got Tyler. Maybe we package our seconds for a late first or just buy one outright. If we're lucky we keep our first round pick and just add that much more talent.

    Then I think we're in much better position to land a legit all-star when they become available. Financial flexibility, a couple possible blue chip prospects in Steph and Klay, if we're lucky we get a top 7 pick in this draft, and a number of other medium grade prospects. That's what it takes to rebuild.
     
  11. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Looking more into the Asik possibility, it seems like something to really attack at the all-star break IMO. Asik is an RFA this offseason and I reckon he'll get some pretty decent offers. Rose's extension kicks in after this season and they're paying big money to Noah, Boozer, and Deng. Trading Monta for Korver, Brewer, and Asik actually keeps their cap situation at roughly the same level it is currently as Korver/Brewer/Asik combined make about as much as Monta, and Korver and Brewer's contracts both go through next season, as does Monta's (assuming he opts out of his final year, which I would lean toward at this point). They pick up a big time scorer, which they need, who they can start or bring off the bench while keeping their cap situation even and get something for Asik. Its only a season and a half commitment to Monta so they can see if it works out and move Monta as an expiring next offseason or just let him walk. Probably we have to throw in McGuire to assure them of adequate wing depth, plus hes got extra value to them as hes the absolutely perfect type of player you want guarding LeBron, Melo, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger. Warriors pick up a nice center prospect who could be a Marcin Gortat type of guy who is starting quality but stuck behind a really good C, plus some decent role players that will expire the following season.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    If we want the "it" franchise player the warriors have to do better in free agency and in drafts and keep finding gems to make the franchise a lucrative place to play. The drafts are a crap shoot, but in free agency with big name stars on the market, if you can't do anything to lure these guys to the bay area, then it's hopeless.

    I'm even for moving the warriors across the bay or put them into the south bay. Oakland sucks.
     
  13. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Asik is a quality player, better defensively than Asik and has the potential to be a better offensive player than he currently is. I like him but he's not the kind of guy you attack in FA, you'll end up with a borderline player who is getting huge $$. I said this before, way back, and you've got to develop your own talent.

    Think about what our position would be if the W's stuck to their own talent. Sure the extensions to Monta and Biedrins would be big, but if the W's had amnestied Biedrins, they'd be big time players since Curry is still on his rookie contract and Monta had value. Yet, what's killing them right now? Yep, that overpriced FA, David Lee. Ugh.

    I see Brandon Wright doing some things in Dallas and I think while not an All-Star but he could have been a decent offensive player here and he's still only 22 or 23.

    Philly did it without going big in FA but sticking to their own picks (although Evan Turner was a No. 2) Holiday, Lou Williams, Iggy. They even lost a desirable big, Dalembert, and got BETTER.
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Philsmith is right, the way the warriors have managed their salary cap space has been horrendous. Talk about buying all the appliances in a house, but leaving no room for the important stuff like groceries. That's typical warriors.

    Sometimes, I think the warriors organization in the past would do the bare minimum to sell tickets, but would not care about the overall season record. I mean why do anything if you're making money.
     

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