Zombie Fire Olshey

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Fez Forthright, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Fez Forthright

    Fez Forthright スーパーバッド Zero Cool

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    25,595
    Likes Received:
    5,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Phone Psychic
    Location:
    Pacific NorthFRESH, US and A.
    $120m and this looks like a treadmill team at best.

    His plan was to lock up young talent on "favorable deals" - clearly he overvalued their talent/upside. With Billy King out of the league who in their right mind will take on the contracts of Crabbe and Leonard?

    The best way to build a team, ESPECIALLY when top FA wont sign here, is through the draft and for whatever reason this is when Neil is the least aggressive during the off season. He's quick to package first rounders for immediate/moderate upgrades -- Mo Williams (Clippers) and Aaron Afflalo.

    He'd look worse if some of his main targets actually signed here -- Parsons, Monroe, Hibbert, etc.
     
  2. Rhal

    Rhal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,950
    Likes Received:
    2,669
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    UPS
    Location:
    Portland
    You pay for the entirety of the contract not just 31 games into it. Sure they are sucking now but we have a team full of young players and to bail on 24-25 year olds who aren't near the peak of their careers because we have a crappy start is a little short sited. This league has tons of examples of "overpaying" someone in year one to have that contract look favorable in the later years of it, not saying that is definitely what is going to happen now but to just discount any potential improvement in play or just reverting back to how we played last year is in the same boat as overreacting to the start of this season.
    If we had championship aspirations then yea it would be panic mode but we are not in the same mold as GS/Spurs/Clippers/Memphis who in the majority have small windows to go for it before their talent drops off due to age or FA.
    These guys are not playing like they want to win, they don't want to put the effort into the nit and grit that it takes to pull out some of these wins. Add that into the fact we are fouling almost 24 times a game and only getting around 20 calls a game (https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-personal-fouls-per-game), there is a lot to dislike and this is not fun basketball to watch but we wiffed on FA and its been shown that we cannot get top teir or even second tier FA to come to us and it would be insane to try and salvage this season by overpaying in a trade so we are in for a rough season.
    edit- had a little to mcuh to drink and forgot to add in my whole point. If you want to fire NO what would you have done differently, seems like his hands were tied since FA gave us the cold shoulder. If you want to tank then your pretty much having to get rid of both CJ and Dame and as for packing picks for middle tear FA, when we traded for Affalo we were a damn good team and looking for a Ring, who knew LA would get banged up affalo woudl be playing with one arm and Wesley would tear his achillies.
     
    stampedehero, PDXFonz, H.C. and 4 others like this.
  3. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14,608
    Likes Received:
    5,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    His FA targets and acquisitions so far have been terrible. His trading has been average at best. He landed a few nice players but the Afflalo for Barton and a 1st was horrible. And he seems to have no concept of what a player is worth. 18 mil for Crabbe and Turner?

    The only good thing you can say for him, is that he's been a fair drafter, getting Lillard and CJ. Barton and Crabbe were good selections for where they were picked.

    But yeah, 20 mil in luxury tax payments for a team that probably won't even make the playoffs. He's brought this team to the same financial ruin that Whitsett did, but at least Bob brought us close to a championship.

    Olshey's gotta go. He's a soap opera star and a smooth talker, but his track record sucks.
     
    OneLifeToLive likes this.
  4. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14,608
    Likes Received:
    5,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also, Paul Allen deserves this for being such a moron. He watches every game, so he should have known that the Leonard and Crabbe deals were ridiculous at the very least.
     
    stampedehero and OneLifeToLive like this.
  5. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Leftist Mobster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    25,364
    Likes Received:
    10,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    See if we can get Cho back. He seems to be doing all right.
     
    BBert and Nikolokolus like this.
  6. BonesJones

    BonesJones YouTube - TrueBlazerFan

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    36,334
    Likes Received:
    28,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    In hindsight the Afflalo deal is bad, but at the time it was the right trade and a good one. Don't be captain hindsight.

    He didn't course to sign Crabbe for $18M, the Nets did. And if we were already going to be over the cap for the next few years, what's the difference between paying Crabbe and Turner $18M per year instead of $10M?

    And how does the difference of being $20M over the salary cap put us in financial ruin compared to being $2M over?

    Last year, nobody said we were in "financial paradise". How are we in financial ruin? How exactly do the salaries put us in "ruin"?
     
    H.C., GriLtCheeZ, BBert and 1 other person like this.
  7. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Strange how things work out over time. I also recall how fans and media seemed more concerned over his lack of charisma, than ability. Well thank goodness we got the silver-tongued huckster Neil to win the PR war.
     
  8. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Huge, underperforming contracts reduce flexibility. When your team is as mediocre as this one and your options are limited that's a bad place to be -- Harder to make trades. Harder to move players. Harder to make mid-level signings that might improve your team.

    The era of SPAM (spending Paul Allen's Money) was supposed to be over. It had huge consequences before and with a more punitive repeat offender luxury tax it could mean losing productive players like Plumlee for nothing (for example).
     
    STOMP, Hobbesarable and Minstrel like this.
  9. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14,608
    Likes Received:
    5,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's the GMs job to evaluate talent and predict the outcome of trades and picks. A GM can't draft multiple busts and fuck up trades then hide behind the skirt of "hindsight is 20/20", because it's their JOB to predict. You can only not penalize them for things that are tottally unforseeable, like a freak injury like Matthews sustained for example.

    As for the downside of being 40 million over the came as opposed to 4, I'll tell you why: let's say for example, that we'd like to retain Mason Plumlee for 10 million a year. Because we're going to be deep into the luxury tax next year, that 10 million dollar will cost Paul Allen 45 million per year. I know Paul is rich, but don't think he won't balk and spending 45 mil for Mason Plumlee.

    Another downside is that it makes that player almost impossible to trade. If Crabbe were making 5-6 million per year, he'd be an attractive trade piece to include with a player like CJ, but at 18 mil, nobody will want him.
     
    Duvalier and Nikolokolus like this.
  10. Charcoal Filtered

    Charcoal Filtered Writing Team

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,011
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are not many teams that lose an All-Star in his prime in free agency and then get to the second round of the playoffs the next year. Remember, we are making this push without a complete rebuild.

    There are restrictions on the trading of contracts. Getting a new GM is not going to change that. Until that time we will have an unbalanced roster and it will not be pretty at times.

    I am encouraged that we held the third highest scoring team in the league to 95 points in the first game of this year without two point guards in our starting lineup. Just think what we could do with our All-Star replacing CJ in the starting lineup and getting major help in return for CJ via trade.
     
  11. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Is this team for real? Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    23,630
    Likes Received:
    25,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So, you just supported Bones' point, because the freak injury Matthews sustained is the reason the Afflalo trade didn't work out. Had he remained healthy, the Afflalo deal had appeared to make the Blazers a legit title contender before Matthews went down.
     
    BlazerWookee, BBert and Nate like this.
  12. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    83,195
    Likes Received:
    64,006
    Trophy Points:
    115
    Bring Back Trader Bob!
     
    jlprk, Dougnsalem, BBert and 2 others like this.
  13. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    13,069
    Likes Received:
    18,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Investment Management / Financial Planner
    Location:
    Lake Oswego
    Trader Bob? Those initials are TB.....I LIKE IT!!! :rockon:
     
  14. Five Second Violation

    Five Second Violation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    1,333
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, we are now in a position where we probably have to dump Plumlee for a draft pick or something or we will be losing him for nothing this summer. Not a lot of bargaining power though, which is true almost across the board now with our "assets".
     
  15. Five Second Violation

    Five Second Violation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    1,333
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO the sample size was too small to evaluate how everything was really working, and it was still a poor trade in hindsight even taking the Matthews injury into account. Afflalo has been mediocre to bad everywhere he's played since he left Orlando. And giving up Barton and a draft pick for a rental wasn't great value for that. Especially with CJ stuck to the bench at the time. Remember that Matthews had to go down for CJ to finally even get serious minutes from Stotts. Hindsight being what it is, we can see that CJ is a way better player than Afflalo and it was seemingly true even in 2014-15.
     
  16. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14,608
    Likes Received:
    5,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Absolutely wrong. The Afflalo trade was a failure on it's own, for reasons that should be obvious. Afflalo is a worse player than Barton and we lost a 1st round draft pick to boot. Aaron didn't play well enough to warrant re-signing even though we had just lost Matthews, which should tell you something.
     
    Nikolokolus likes this.
  17. HomerLovesKoolAid

    HomerLovesKoolAid I have a well-known member.

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    4,671
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please activate @jlprk's infinite like button.
     
  18. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    68,517
    Likes Received:
    23,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    El oh el.
     
  19. Nate

    Nate #itsokaytobewhite #wakandaforever BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    2,663
    Likes Received:
    1,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think we didn't re-sign him cause we were going younger. And had two young SG's in Crabbe and CJ.
     
    BBert likes this.
  20. Nate

    Nate #itsokaytobewhite #wakandaforever BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    2,663
    Likes Received:
    1,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So really it's Stotts fault, that we ever had to make that trade. Because of his refusal to play CJ. A lot of people on here were calling CJ a bust that year.
     

Share This Page