How do you feel about this picture?

Discussion in 'PyeongChang 2018' started by cpawfan, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    [​IMG]

    From ESPN
     
  2. Jurassic

    Jurassic Trend Setter

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    Looks like Carmelo thought the medal was just chocolate with gold wrapping. Why take a picture like that?

    Replace Melo with Kobe, I'm not a Kobe fan, but he played a bigger role.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Is that the last two USA teams to win it?
    :)
     
  4. GMJ

    GMJ Suspended

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    Poor comparisons. The Dream team's dominance was far superior to that of the Redeem team, although the latter did face tougher competition. Also, Lebron isn't white.
     
  5. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    Melo busted his ass defending big men and actually took some charges
     
  6. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    And Kobe torched Melo on the offensive end, even doubled his amount of blocks.

    Cpaw, Kobe was better. Bryant was more clutch, had less time to rest than Melo, and produces much better output in spite of the finger.

    Melo wasn't exactly Hakeem or anything on defense either. They both got torched their fair share too.

    ~~~

    (Better stats in bold obviously)

    Carmelo Anthony

    11.5 PPG,
    59.92704534 TS%,
    0.375 Assists per game,
    0.25 Blocks per game,
    1 steal per game,
    4.25 Rebounds per game,
    0.5 Assist-to-Turnover ratio,
    0.601449 points per minute (6% less efficient per minute),
    "GTFO" in the 4th quarter of the Gold Medal game.


    ~~~

    Kobe Bryant

    15 PPG,
    54.90483 TS%,
    2.125 Assists per game,
    0.5 Blocks per game,
    1.25 steals per game,
    2.75 Rebounds per game,
    1.1333 Assist-to-Turnover ratio,
    0.63709 Points per minute (6% more efficient per minute),
    13 points in the 4th quarter of Gold Medal Game.

    (See below for more context on this empirical discussion and TS%).


    Kobe was overall superior in the three elimination games as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  7. GMJ

    GMJ Suspended

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    I don't recognize the last stat you listed for Carmelo, is that Hollinger?

    edit: Oh I don't think Cpaw ever said Carmelo out played Kobe, rather just gave Carmelo his respects.

    edit 2: But of course we're talking about the photo, so I guess the real people to blame are Lebron and Wade for taking the picture with him.
     
  8. isrus

    isrus Go Devils

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    Switch Wade with Prince
     
  9. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Nah I didn't use him this time :O . Carmelo has my respect too, I love our team like I've said a billion times.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Maybe LeBron is in the same class as Bird, Magic, and Jordan. The others aren't even close. LeBron isn't that close yet, either.

    How many rings between Bird, Magic, and Jordan? 13? 14?
     
  11. isrus

    isrus Go Devils

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    Yeah Melo and Wade aren't close but Lebron should be up there, he doesn't have the same supporting cast that those legends did.
     
  12. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Jordan didn't always have the best supporting casts either... :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  13. isrus

    isrus Go Devils

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    Edit-double post
     
  14. isrus

    isrus Go Devils

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    Well he did have Pippen, who on the Cavs can compare to Pippen
     
  15. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Why didn't you just edit your double post to say this? Lol.

    I recall Jordan carrying a lame team for a little while, wasting some great years.

    I agree with the others about LeBron though.
     
  16. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    The stats are useless because Coach K designated Melo to sit on the 3 line for floor spacing for LBJ and Kobe. Melo was given a reduced role on offense and accepted it. If Kobe didn't out-produce him it would have been laughable.

    On defense, Melo was guarding guys much bigger than him and was wrestling them for rebounding position. He played more out of position than any other player on the team. I want to see Kobe guarding the Gasol brothers.

    Blocks is a freaking stupid stat and I can't believe you even brought it up.

    Also, Kobe was GTFO for the first 3 quarters of the gold medal game.

    Melo was the consummate team player and completely sublimated his game for the good of the team. He took a significantly reduced role on offense and played damn good defense.

    Kobe was Coach K's designated golden boy, but Melo was the unsung hero.
     
  17. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    A lower percentage of Melo's shots are jumpers compared to Kobe. Further this isn't the NBA, he should be able to play out of position especially against some of the crap he was up against. He doesn't really have an excuse for his efficiency.

    Dude, the whole point was that your human eye could not track stats properly. I posted them to give you a better idea of your boy, and Melo was assisted on more of his buckets than Kobe was. Melo wasn't some defensive beast either, he wasn't causing turnovers or guarding prolific big men for the most part.

    Damn good defense? Wow that's a stretch.

    Melo's a team player? Based on what? So is Kobe then, he's just popular to boot, which seems to upset you.

    Melo was also GTFO for the entire Gold Medal game, if we want to be this harsh.

    Nah man I don't think so. Kobe has the intangibles and even better excuses.

    Lol I even adjusted them per minute, in case you complained about the additional 3 or so minutes Kobe played per game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  18. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    BTW, of your useless stats, you have Melo's FG% and TS% wrong and significantly lower. TS% = PTS / 2 * (FGA+.44*FTA).

    Kobe had 120 points, 104 FGA and 12 FTA for a TS of 0.549048316251830
    Melo had 92 points, 64 FGA and 29 FTA for a TS of 0.599270453361125

    Melo isn't in my top 15 favorite players, so calling him my boy is absolutely hilarious.

    This has nothing to do with popularity and for this Olympic team, Melo was far more a team player than Kobe was. Kobe, LBJ and Wade were allowed to freelance and Melo was reduced to a spot up shooter. Melo is going to be a lot less efficient when his primary job is to shoot jumpers.

    Of course most of Melo's shots were assisted, as that is the role of a spot up shooter. Now where is your break down on a game by game basis of jumpers per FGA for each player. 57% of Melo's FGA's were 3's.

    The fact that you continue to focus on offensive number demonstrates that you have no point. Melo didn't have a primary offensive role, but had a better TS%
     
  19. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    I evaluated all eight games for fun, not because that was the end all. I have various fashions of addressing your concerns.

    I know how to calculate TS%, I had his second gamelog incorrect, it was 4/6 Fgs not 4/16. I saw your comment earlier about Melo being better on Team USA because of his "defense" and such, so I wanted to verify if indeed he was comparable to Kobe empirically (since you used so much conviction, I thought this would be a given).

    Over the last six games, both Kobe's and Melo's TS% were 60. Kobe averaged 16.5 points, while Melo averaged 12.83 points. I happen to think that these pressure packed games might be a bit more important, and filled with tougher opponents (Greece, Spain, Australia, Argentina, and Spain again were the hardest part of the schedule obviously).

    Kobe was **** the first two games though (Melo sucked in game 1, but rebounded in his second outing), if you want to say anything pejorative about that, then by all means go ahead.

    Eh? Yeah I said "your boy", it's a facetious term, relax. Lol you take things so seriously sometimes.

    Kobe Bryant didn't subjugate himself? Your concept of team player is limited. Just because Melo was a team player, does not mean he was useful in the roles you specified. He played the role we needed him to at the Olympics, but he was not out of position by any means.

    You sounded so bitter when talking about the "Golden" boy, which is why I brought up this sidebar.


    Not only has Kobe lost a step and is not nearly as explosive (in this tourney at least), he still outperformed Melo on offense. It is clear that Kobe shot more jumpers than anyone else on our USA team (not to mention the greater amount of fatigue he's experienced from actually getting past the first round), thankfully his efficiency rose over the course of the tournament and the lack of NBA competition probably helped to a degree. About half of his shots were also three pointers, nevermind the fact that Melo tends to shoot 10-15% fewer jumpers on average in general (82games.com).

    You claim Melo had to subjugate himself to play defense, but why would you say he is damn impressive? It is clearly a hyperbole. Was his rebounding impressive? Did he create turnovers or alter shots? Was his competition damn impressive?

    Further, the Gold Medal game was mostly an atrocity for everyone on defense that day.

    Depends on what stretch of stats you value more. Empirically I have to make no case, I simply point out that Mellow underperformed in a couple of important per minute stats, and that Kobe was more valuable as the tournament continued. I do not see how any of these stats are "Useless", they have the same role players and are moving at the same pace, that excuse doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  20. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    You know what Boeheim would say if he was reading this?

    Without Carmelo, they wouldn't have 10 ****ing games. OK? Not 10.
     

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