Is Shaq the greatest Center of All-Time?

Discussion in 'NBA General' started by Dagoods, Jan 2, 2005.

  1. Dagoods

    Dagoods JBB Banned Member

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    As per Reggie's Scorecard

    SHAQUILLE O'NEAL CATEGORY WILT CHAMBERLAIN

    15 Scoring(15) 15
    Shaq's got the moves, but both players can score--and share.

    10 Field-Goal Shooting(10) 10
    Two of the most efficient shooters of all time.

    1 Free-Throw Shooting(5) 1
    Um, pass.

    18 Defense(20) 19
    Shaq is (and Wilt was) an underrated defender.

    4 Shot-Blocking(5) 5
    Wilt's advantage? He was more defensive-minded.

    4 Passing(5) 5
    Chamberlain was a perfect passer for his time, and Shaq's no slouch.

    18 Rebounding(20) 20
    There's never been a better rebounder than Chamberlain.

    5 Leadership(5) 2
    Shaq's maturity stands out in ending his "feud" with Kobe Bryant.

    4 Mental Toughness(5) 2
    Hack-a-Shaq's failure tells you everything you need to know.

    8 Durability(10) 10
    Wilt simply went out and played; Shaq's health has been on the rise.

    87 Total(100) 89

    O'Neal and Chamberlain are rated relative to other NBA players,
    with the maximum score in parenthesis.
    Reggie Theus starred for 13 NBA seasons, and since retiring has worked as an analyst and coach. If you have a suggestion for a future "One-on-One" matchup, e-mail Reggie at www.ReggieTheus.net.

    Besides Olajuwon in 94, there has not been another CENTER who has schooled Shaq (Keep in mind that Shaq was in his second season when he faced The Dream who at that time was at his very peak). But since 1996 up until now, Shaq has been the best Center in the league, hands down!

    But where does he rank in history? Is he better than 'The Dream", "The Admiral", Jabbar, Russell, etc?

    IMO, yes he is BY FAR! but is he better than The Big Dipper? I have seen numerous video clips and full games on Wilt Chamberlain [​IMG]...and well he was DOMINANT in a less physical NBA era (He was going against guys that were 6-9). Don't get me wrong he was great, but how would he fair against Shaq?

    Wilt is a better passer for sure (He led the league in assist once)!
    Wilt is the best rebounder of all-time!
    Wilt is a better shot blocker than Shaq; a better overall defender.

    but SHAQ is quicker, faster, and stronger! Shaq is a decent passer not as good as Wilt true. But Shaq is a better dribbler and more athletic as well.

    Shaq has NOT DOMINATED the NBA as he should have! THis man should have averaged 30 points, 15+ rebounds, 4+ Shot blocks per game.
    but the only problem is that he is LAZY!

    I don't think Wilt in his prime could take The Diesel (00-02)!

    Shaq, believe it or not has more moves that Wilt ever did. Wilt didn't DUNK enough, he was more graceful than Shaq. He would bank shots, and finger-roll rather than DUNKING the ball down your throat like Shaq does!

    On the other hand, Shaq well he is a beast! it is really hard to compare these two but WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE IN YOUR TEAM?

    Wilt was a more complete player for sure and DOMINATED his era but only managed to win 2 rings!

    Shaq dominated his era (not as dominat as Wilt, mainly because Shaq is LAZY) and he managed to win 3 rings.

    IMO if O'Neal manages to win that 4th ring, there won't be any more doubts!

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. AA13

    AA13 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Wilt was the greatest center of all-time, followed by Kareem.

    Wilt is my favorite player of all time and I know countless facts about him. I have read several books on him and have wrote papers on him for my Langauge Arts classes in school. [​IMG]

    Wilt and Shaq are pretty even. It's hard to compare players from different ers'a but I think Wilt and Shaq could have played in any era. One of the most important things you have to remember about Wilt is that he was mis-understood and shaped some areas of his game to what his critics were saying about him. Like Wilt said "No one roots for Goliath."

    Wilt has the advantage in the passing category. (little tid bit, Wilt was is the only Center in history to lead the leauge in assists.) I also have to give the scoring and rebounding category to WIlt. (Wilt averaged 50 points in one seaons alone. He also scored 100 points in a single game, a record that will never be broken.) He led the leauge in rebounding several times and knew how to get to the ball.

    Now on to two of the more contreversial issues. Sports writers have and still criticize Wilt for being nothing more than a scorer. But this is not true. When he was traded to the Lakers from Philadelphia he knew he had to change his game to be more defensive minded if he was to win a championship. Los Angelas already had two great scorers, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor.

    This is similar to Shaq exept he was a main scorer on his team. But people don't see the good defense Shaq plays. He clogs the middle up making it harder for players to drive into the lane.

    Now onto the Championship rings. Shaq has won three rings already on a team that had another superstar and supporting cast on the chapionship teams. Wilt was basically a on man team. When he played for the 76'ers he was a one man team. He was beaten by the Celtic's every year in the Easern Conference playoffs because the Celtic's were a team just not one player. When he was traded the the Lakers he won two because he had two players to help him. People criticize Wilt and Shaq if they win and if they don't win.

    Wilt is also better because he had a rival of almost equal skill that he has proven himself againsdt. There has not really been a center that Shaq has had a true rivalry with to prove himself.

    There is no doubt in my mind that WIlt would beat Shaq if they were both in their prime. Wilt was just an overall great player, and IMO the Greatest Player of all time. (Yes even better than Michael Jordan [​IMG] )
     
  3. King James X3

    King James X3 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Nope. Shaq isn't even amongst my top five greatest centers of all-time, and in my opinion his "greatness" and "dominance" has to be the most over rated reign in NBA history.

    - During the 90's how, when GREAT centers still remained, how many MVPs did Shaquille O'Neal win? One. When? 1999-2000. Until than the David Robinson's, Hakeem's, Malone's, and so on were dominating the league. It wasn't until the new millennium, when the GREAT bigmen were past their prime, did Shaquille O'Neal become "The Most Dominate Force" in the league.

    -During The 90's how many FIRST TEAM ALL-NBA Selections did Shaquille O'Neal obtain? Two. 8 Seasons in The 90's, and "The Greatest Center Of ALL-TIME" was only selected to the first team twice? Yup. That's because when he had competition at his postion, he didn't shine nearly as bright as he does today. He was ACTUALLY CHALLENGED by the Mutombo's, Robinson's, Rodman's, Malone's, Hakeem's, Mourning's, and Ewing's of the league.

    -During the 90s, How many times was Shaquille O'Neal named to The ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM? NONE!!!

    -How many times has Shaq been named DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR? NONE!!!

    -How many titles did Shaq win during the 90s when bigmen weren't a lost commodity? NONE!!!

    So lets recap. Back in The 90s, when Centers still roamed the earth, Shaquille O'Neal won 1 MVP award. No Championships. No Defensive Player Awards. No 1st All Defensive Team Selections. Just Two 1st ALL-NBA Selections.

    Yes, Shaq is a good center, his statistics don't create themselves and he's been solid for years now. However, when he had skilled 7 foot wide body superstars to actually challenge him on both ends of the court, he wasn't nearly as dominate as he's been in recent years. Who competes against him now? Yao Ming? Passive, Skinny, Young. Ben Wallace? 6'9", undersized, never drafted. Brad Miller? Never drafted, all star by default. Zydrunas Ilgauskas? Need I say more? The aforementioned players don't even come close to touching the level of greatest the center postion displayed during the mid 90s. Place today's Shaquille O'Neal against still in their prime David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikeme Mutombo, Patrick Ewing, and Alonzo Mourning on a nightly basis and I would promise you, PROMISE YOU, Shaq wouldn't even be considered "The Greatest Center of ALL-TIME!!!
     
  4. clutchcity04

    clutchcity04 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Hakeem!!!!
     
  5. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    Wilt, Hakeem and Kareem are better. I don't have anything else to add to what everyone else has said, so I won't debate the point. [​IMG]
     
  6. WadeDynasty

    WadeDynasty JBB JustBBall Member

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    Hakeem > Shaq
    Little slimmer, but he's got so many moves and techniques. Wilt played with dwarfs so it's hard to tell who's better but Hakeem is probably the best center to play this game.
     
  7. Pure

    Pure JBB Graphic Design

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    Nope, I will definately say he is not the best. Hakeem, Wilt and Kareem are all better.
     
  8. Dagoods

    Dagoods JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wilt was basically a on man team. When he played for the 76'ers he was a one man team. He was beaten by the Celtic's every year in the Easern Conference playoffs because the Celtic's were a team just not one player. When he was traded the the Lakers he won two because he had two players to help him. People criticize Wilt and Shaq if they win and if they don't win.
    </div>

    Wilt won one ring with the 76rs in 1976 "Chet Walker and Billy Cunningham (One of the NBA's 50 greatest players) scored more as Wilt Chamberlain concentrated on rebounding and defense. Chamberlain still finished third in scoring (24.1), but he also led the league in rebounding (24.2) and was third in assists (7.8)".

    I still believe that Wilt is indeed the best center of all-time, I guess I got caught up in the SHAQ Hype! Shaq is just a beast and he could have become the best but he was just too damn lazy!
     
  9. PopcornMachine

    PopcornMachine JBB JustBBall Member

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    No, that is the all-time scoring leader. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

    Maybe if Shaq were more dedicated and had developed a shot like the Sky Hook, and could shoot free throws, he might be considered that.

    But as it is, he's not.
     
  10. AznxBaller

    AznxBaller JBB Back...

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    Shaq doesn't have the depth to be the greatest center of all time. He has no shooting skills other than layups and gets his points mainly from banging bodies down low. Foul him a few times and he'll have a hard time scoring since he isn't the greatest are free throws. Sure, he has those great low post skills, but his assist stats aren't nearly that high up there as Chamberlain or Hakeem. There are so many great centers that are better than Shaq- Mourning, Ewing, Hakeem, Chamberlain, Jabbar. All of those players could rebound, shoot, bang bodies, and assist.
     
  11. jbb94ftOfTherapy

    jbb94ftOfTherapy JBB JustBBall Member

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    NO Way Jose. I dont have any points to make that havent been said but the one that does stick out in my mind is that he was only named to the ALL-NBA team twice in the 90's. nuff said
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa JBB Rockets Fan

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    I'll say Shaq is the second best, after Wilt. After that it's Bill Russell, Kareem, Hakeem, Moses, and David Robinson.
     
  13. Diesel

    Diesel BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 94ftOfTherapy:</div><div class="quote_post">NO Way Jose. I dont have any points to make that havent been said but the one that does stick out in my mind is that he was only named to the ALL-NBA team twice in the 90's. nuff said</div>

    You also forgot to mention that Shaq was young in the 90's while centers like Hakeem and The ADmiral were in their prime. Shaq was in his prime during the LAker championship runs and titles. Shaq has more titles than all of those 90's centers.

    DAvid Robinson: 2 titles
    Hakeem Robinson: 2 titles
    Patrick Ewing: 0 titles
    Alonzo Mourning: 0 titles
    Shaq: 3

    We all can agree that these were the best centers during the decade.
    Let's see the help these guys had.

    David Robinson: He had Tim Duncan arguably the greatest power forward to ever play the game.
    Hakeem: Hakeem had some stars helping him too. Hell at one point he had Clyde Drezler AND Charles Barkly and he STILL COULDNT GET IT DONE THAT YEAR. I mean thats one of the best C-F-G combos EVER, in fact I can't think of a bettrer one at the moment.
    Patrick Ewing: Well he didnt have much help, but he had Charles Oakly who was a defensive and rebounding beast. Wasn't really ever a follower of the KNicks.
    ALonzo Mourning: Tim hardaway? Thats about like SHaq having Kobe except they never got it done as Shaq and Kobe >>>>>>>> Alonzo and Tim Hardaway.
    Shaq: He had Kobe in his prime, just Kobe. No one else is really worth mentioning except Robert Horry, he made some big baskets for them in crunch time. He also had Penny and Horace Grant with the MAgic one year. Shaq was too young here and The dominant centers were in their prime including Hakeem.

    Shaq is IMO one of the greatst 5 players ever to play the game. Here they are(in no order)
    1. MJ
    2. Shaq
    3. Wilt Chamberlain
    4. Magic Johnson
    5. LArry Bird

    KAreem can possibly be in there.
    In fact the only top 10 players who I think are centers are Wilt. Shaq, Bill Russell and Kareem. Even some guy wrote a book. He had Shaq as the greatest player ever. IT was called Greatest Players or something. I may disagree, but I do agree that Shaq is the best center ever to play the game.

    Wilt had no competition because of the puny size. Russell proved somewhat of a challenge t oWilt and they beat him every year. The Sixers relied on Wilt back then. It proved ineffective. Kareem never had the dominance of Shaq and rode on Magics cotton tails for his ending championships. The ones he REALLY earned were in Milwaukee and the early LAker ones. Wilt had the stats, but not the success. A great player is a winner....
     
  14. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    ^Dude thats just pure B.S. The only reason Shaq has been sucessfull is that he always is with a guy that is also real good. Dwayne Wade, Kobe, nad Penny. Thats how Shaq has all sucess.

    Now MJ didn't always have Pippen. Amd Chaimberlain and Wilt were both solo flyers.
     
  15. Dagoods

    Dagoods JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq is IMO one of the greatst 5 players ever to play the game. Here they are(in no order)
    1. MJ
    2. Shaq
    3. Wilt Chamberlain
    4. Magic Johnson
    5. LArry Bird</div>

    I have to disagree with this. I'm a big fan of Shaq, but the man has only won the MVP award (league) only ONCE, how many scoring titles has he won? Only 1, or 2 the most? A guy his size should at least pull down 15+ rebounds a game, 5+ shot blocks, etc. I thought Shaq was going to DOMINATE the east but he is only averaging 20 something points (In a weak EAST) that is pathetic!

    O' Neal needs to win more rings, and be DOMINANT in order to surpass Wilt, but like I have already stated; he is TOO DAMN LAZY!
     
  16. sartre2025

    sartre2025 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    Led the UCLA Bruins to three consecutive NCAA championships (1967, 1968, 1969).

    NBA Rookie of The Year

    1970

    NBA All-Time Leading Scorer

    38,387

    2nd All-Time Leader in Blocked Shots

    3,189

    NBA 3rd All-Time Leader in Rebounding

    17,440

    Six Time NBA champion

    1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988

    Six Time NBA MVP

    1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980

    2 Time NBA Finals MVP

    1971, 1985

    19 Time NBA All-Star

    All-NBA First Team

    1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1986

    All-Defensive First Team

    1974, 1975, 1979, 1980, 1981

    The only center among the top 30 All-Time Assist Leaders

    Show me a center with a better record.
     
  17. The_Legend_23

    The_Legend_23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    best centers of all time
    1- wilt
    2- bill russell
    3- kareem
    4- olajuwan
    5- shaq
     
  18. Dagoods

    Dagoods JBB Banned Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Show me a center with a better record.</div>

    No problem!!!

    Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1978)

    NBA champion (1967, '72)

    NBA Finals MVP (1972)

    NBA MVP (1960, '66, '67, '68)

    All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68)

    Second Team ('63, '65, '72)

    All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73)

    7 -- Appearances on the All-Defensive 2nd Team.

    Rookie of Year (1960)

    One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

    1 -- Assist title, won in 1967-68 with 702 assists. His 8.6 assists per game was nearly double his career average, and his 24.3 scoring average was only six points below his career average.

    7 -- Scoring titles, all in a row from 1959-60 to 1965-66.

    8 -- Seasons in which he led the league in minutes played.

    11 -- Rebounding titles.

    22.9 --The highest rebounding average in NBA history.

    28 -- Free throws in one game, an NBA record set during his 100-point game against New York on March 2, 1962 and tied by Utah's Adrian Dantley on Jan. 4, 1984 against Houston.

    35 -- Field goals without a miss from Feb. 17 to Feb. 28, 1967.

    55 -- Rebounds against Bill Russell and Boston on Nov. 24, 1960, an NBA single-game record.

    79 -- Complete games played in 1961-62, including 47 straight.

    100 -- Points against New York on March 2, 1962. 'Nuff said.

    118 -- 50-point games.

    271 -- Most 40-point games.

    2,149 -- Rebounds in 1960-61, an NBA season record. Wilt also sits at Nos. 2-7 before Bill Russell makes an appearance.

    4,029 -- Points in 1961-62, an NBA single-season record. Wilt occupies four of the top five spots on this list.

    11,862 -- Free throws attempted over his career, an NBA record.

    23,924 -- Rebounds collected in his career, an NBA record.
     
  19. Cody 7k

    Cody 7k JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting The_Legend_23:</div><div class="quote_post">best centers of all time
    1- wilt
    2- bill russell
    3- kareem
    4- olajuwan
    5- shaq</div>

    Exactly, lmao. He's not even close.

    How can you even say that? That's a disgrace.
     
  20. sartre2025

    sartre2025 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">No problem!!!

    Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1978)

    NBA champion (1967, '72)</div>

    Kareem is a six time NBA champion. Did Wilt lead his college team to any championships?

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    NBA Finals MVP (1972)</div>

    Kareem won it twice.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    NBA MVP (1960, '66, '67, '68)</div>

    Kareem won it six times.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68)</div>

    Kareem was selected ten times to the All-NBA First Team.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    Second Team ('63, '65, '72)</div>

    Kareem was selected five times to the All-NBA Second Team.

    1970, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1985

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73)</div>

    Kareem was selected five times to the All-NBA Defensive Team.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    7 -- Appearances on the All-Defensive 2nd Team. </div>

    Kareem was selected five times to the All-Defensive Second Team.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    Rookie of Year (1960)</div>

    Kareem -- Rookie of the Year 1970

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).</div>

    Kareem -- One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dagoods:</div><div class="quote_post">
    1 -- Assist title, won in 1967-68 with 702 assists. </div>

    Kareem - 5,660 career assists; Wilt - 4,643 career assists

    No disrespect to Wilt, he spent more seasons with the Lakers than any other team and helped us win a championship. I think Kareem has him beat though and not simply because he played longer; the numbers speak for themselves.
     

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